Video8/Hi8/Digital8/DV/Betamax Buying Guide for quality conversion

[Diopter_Doctor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgey

To clarify, if you look at service manuals (e.g the one I linked), in both the D8 camcorders and later model 8mm/Hi8 only ones the signal from the head amplifier goes through one ADC for Y and one ADC for C and the camcorder does most of the processing in digital before turning it back to analog before output.

Thanks for clarifying!

a question not worthy of an answer:
is it possible to capture the digital before it's converted back to analog?
We do this for retro game systems nowadays for cleaner output. Just curious if that's ever been attempted. Definitely not practical, I wouldn't imagine.

[dpalomaki]

Quote:

...is it possible to capture the digital before it's converted back to analog?

In theory YES. However, every few people have the necessary knowledge and skills to do it, and there is minimal demand for it so no for-profit company is going to do it these days. It would be a labor of love for a hobbiest. The typical digital output is the DV stream via IEEE1394. In theory the DV stream has the frequency response and bit depth needed to faithfully output the Hi8/Video8 image. The main issue being the compression artifacts, especially with typically noisy Video8/Hi8 home video.

[Darkmatter]

So, for the list in the first post by LS and other contributors, is this (quoted below) the list I should focus on if I want a player that has line TBC and S-Video with the ability to play back the most "8mm types" in stereo?

My understanding is that LP mode is the most problematic mode as it can be brand specific? If I'm understanding it correctly.

If what I've said above is not wrong, I guess my other questions are;

Do I need internal line TBC if I have line TBC pass-through?
Is there really any difference in these different models (listed below in quotes) from a playback standpoint?
What would be considered an approx. price to pay for one?

Lastly, if I really don't need internal line TBC due to my pass-through, which lineup of recorder/players would you suggest instead? If the difference between pass-through and internal (line TBC) is negligible, and the price difference is large, I may consider using my pass-through line TBC instead.

Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Digital8 with Video8/Hi8 playback and s-video:
DCR-TRV120
DCR-TRV230
DCR-TRV240
DCR-TRV320
DCR-TRV330
DCR-TRV340
DCR-TRV350
DCR-TRV460
DCR-TRV530
DCR-TRV720
DCR-TRV730
DCR-TRV740
DCR-TRV820
DCR-TRV830
DCR-TRV840

[dpalomaki]

Quote:

My understanding is that LP mode is the most problematic mode as it can be brand specific? If I'm understanding it correctly.

Because the tape moves slower, resulting in closer helical scan spacing, making precise head alignment and tracking more critical. It is not so much brand specific as individual machine specific due to slight variances in alignment from machine to machine. It is not a 100% problem, but a problem that is much more likely than with SP recordings, and it more likely when playback is not with the original recording machine.

[hodgey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkmatter

So, for the list in the first post by LS and other contributors, is this (quoted below) the list I should focus on if I want a player that has line TBC and S-Video with the ability to play back the most "8mm types" in stereo?

That and the list of Hi8 ones with TBC/DNR. They doesn't differ notably between them, they all used similar playback circuitry afaik, so it's more about what you can find for a decent price. The list is by no means exhaustive though, there are more Sony's from the time missing as there were a lot of minor variations (Also be vary that a PAL variant may not exactly be the same as the same-numbered NTSC one).

When it comes to Sony Camcoders, TBC/DNR was a feature of most or all the Hi8 camcorders that also had stereo and S-Video out after they first started having it. The cheaper models that lack it won't have Stereo and S-Video out either. The one exception I am aware of is the DCR-TRV110 (from first digital8 lineup) though there could be more.

The older black Sony models that pre-date them tend to be full of surface-mount electrolytic capacitors that go bad, even if the camcorder hasn't been used, which causes them to act faulty or not work at all so I would generally stay away from those (There may be some exceptions but I don't know the model numbers too well). The playback circuitry was also less sophisticated, though I don't have a good comparison of the output. The late-model Sonys use a digital processing chain while older models and VCRs are mostly analog.

I know less about the non-Sony models, newer hitachi ones have TBC, though on the one I've used it seems to be a bit prone to vertical jitter (I've only used one so it could be just mine though seen this jitter on VHS dubs from that featured the OSD from the hitachi camcorders too.) I believe at least some of the non-Sony camcorders lack support for LP playback. Need to get around to trying to repair some of the ones I have sitting around so I can do some proper comparisons, though working on camcorders are a bit of a pain.

[dpalomaki]

With respect to model numbers, I understand that Sony, and no doubt others, offered "box house" versions wherein it was the "same" camcorder but had a different model number and included accessories. This was to combat comparative pricing/price matching.

[NJRoadfan]

Sony is pretty good with posting the manuals for their old hardware. When in doubt, look it up and see if TBC and DNR menu items are present. Generally any HandyCam released 1998 or later has the TBC/DNR. Almost all Hi-8 models had stereo sound until Digital-8 came out. This is easy to confirm visually as there will be left and right RCA jacks on the camera for audio. Post 1999 camcorders went to a TRRS breakout cable that makes it harder to figure out, but assume all Hi-8 camcorders post Digital 8 are mono only. By then, analog camcorders were the lowest priced option and stripped down in features.

With regards to "XR" models, Sony dropped that after Digital 8 came out. Those were not common and there is no mention of "XR" playback capability with Digital 8 camcorders in analog mode. One thing I've always wanted to test is if the D8 models really can play back those tapes properly, but I have no way to objectively test that. I do have have a Hi-8 XR camcorder though.

[RobustReviews]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpalomaki

Because the tape moves slower, resulting in closer helical scan spacing, making precise head alignment and tracking more critical. It is not so much brand specific as individual machine specific due to slight variances in alignment from machine to machine. It is not a 100% problem, but a problem that is much more likely than with SP recordings, and it more likely when playback is not with the original recording machine.

Very true, although we rarely see LP Video8 tapes (PAL land) they're usually pretty well behaved, we've had far fewer issues with those than VHS/V2000 long play modes. There was no extended play Betamax in PAL land, but I'm sure they can be just as troublesome.

We don't use camcorders though, they go straight in the electrical waste where they belong (IMHO).

Anyway, for PAL at least, LP mode doesn't seem to be present too much of an issue in the 8mm format.

With VHS there was so many varieties and implementations of long play it can be a troublesome sod of a thing. Everything from discreet heads to horrid compromise gap heads...

[OBNOXIUs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkmatter

So, for the list in the first post by LS and other contributors, is this (quoted below) the list I should focus on if I want a player that has line TBC and S-Video with the ability to play back the most "8mm types" in stereo?

Maybe good to know that (some) Digital8 Sony camcorders have a problem playing back Video8 cassettes. There appears a green glow at the righter edge. Users have reported this for models TRV120E, TRV240E, TRV320E, TRV345E, TRV460E & TRV720E, but others can be faulty too... Check my post about this problem here

Maybe this is something that should be mentioned in the first post of this thread?

[hodgey]

Yeah it occurs on all the newer PAL Sony camcorders and some VCRs too. I noted it earlier in the thread. One of the chroma channels do not extend all the way to the right of the image for whatever reason.

[dpalomaki]

Is this in the over scan area not displayed on consumer TV sets of the era these camcorders were sold. IF so, they were not visible or of concern to most users and it probably saved a few cents manufacturing cost to not address it.

With the advent of PC viewing of video they became visible because as a rule PCs do not over scan. Displaying a 4x3 image on a 16x9 screen can show this over scan area as well if the set does not mask it. Many current HD sets can be set to over scan or not, over scan, although they may use a different term, and it may depend on which input is used on the set. One Hitachi set I have calls it "Full" aspect.

A solution today is the mask the offending area.

[Kocane]

I've have a EV-T2 and EV-C500e deck and I've been using em figurering they were great, because why not I guess, until I actually compared with one my Hi8 camcorders that are clearly better. Video played back on the decks seem to be more.. smudgier. It's really quite obvious when looking at the datecode in this example comparison. Overall image seems to have of a green tint too. Bummer.

I have a TRV101e, TRV98e, couple of TRV95e's and they all got that infamous green line. Is there really non of the later 'good' models that doesn't have that darn issue with being green on the right side?

[tre3]

I'm not sure why this is, but looking at both the manual and DCR-TRV720, I can see that TBC is clearly an available option. A bit of judgment on the DCRs perhaps? It's a phenomenal camera WITH both TBC and DCR

[dpalomaki]

I suspect that some of the Sony EV-C/S--- series Hi8 and Video8 VCRs suffer from SMD capacitor issues. I've noticed that the payback quality of my EV-S7000 has degraded over time, but have not had the time to investigate further.

[DMN_AFG]

Hey Guys how are yall doing
I am from Perth, Australia. I have a CCD TRV418E
I want to transfer to digital with good video quality.
I have a desktop and i dont know what equipment to get. Could you please give me some options please thanks. I tried to use the cheap $15 dollar digitnow convertors but the quality was very bad so i need something good as it is for a clothing brand promotion.

[BarryTheCrab]

After due diligence methinks the CCD-TRV138 lacks S-video and maybe an asterisk is required.
Please correct me if I’m wrong.

[HomeVideoProject]

Is it known if the CCD-TRV70 has a TBC? I'm attaching a picture of the specs page in the manual.

[latreche34]

You need to check the menu items for the specific camcorder in the user manual, if it has an option for TBC ON/OFF then it does, Specification page is not going to tell you that information.

[HomeVideoProject]

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

You need to check the menu items for the specific camcorder in the user manual, if it has an option for TBC ON/OFF then it does, Specification page is not going to tell you that information.

I couldn't find anything related to TBC in any of the menus (neither the play-back mode nor the record mode).

I was also having problems with powering this unit via AC, so I decided to purchase a Sony DCR-TRV480 on eBay to use for this project. Huge thanks to the spreadsheet compiled by GrouseHiker!

[latreche34]

Well after checking that model it turns out to be a Video8 camcorder, As far as I know TBC was used only on certain Hi8/D8 camcorders. Only Hi8 and D8 (with analog playback) camcorders that have TBC and S-Video out are recommended for analog tapes capture. It has been mentioned numerous times on this forum.