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04-24-2022, 11:26 PM
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I'm trying to digitize my old VHS tapes. I've just ordered myself a Blaupunkt RTV-950 and now I'm looking for the reight device(s) to do the capturing. Whilst I have access to an old PC that would make using an AIW an option but as the old PC has been sitting in storage for over a decade and I can't be certain it's in working condition or has a CPU up to the job, I'd prefer to use my modern PC if possible.

In the "Best ATI All In Wonder card alternatives, to transfer tapes to digital?" thread, lordsmurf recommends the "Matrox MX02 HD + analog PCIe capture card" for a professional grade setup. Which, along with the "Hauppauge 610 USB2 capture stick", are the two main candidates for the capture device I will buy.

I have a few questions though....

1. Why does the Matrox MX02 need an "analog PCIe capture card"? I thought the Matrox was the capture card and it connected to your PC via a cable that plugs into it's own card?

2. If I do need a separate capture card, would the AVerMedia CE310B be suitable?
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  #2  
04-24-2022, 11:36 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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The MX02 is no longer recommended. There are some USB options that are comparable.

OS is the main problem. If your "modern system" uses Win10/11, you'll have a horrible time capturing. XP/7 was the bset OS for capturing, least issues. So perhaps that "old" (probably not really old) PC is the best tool for this task.

What CPU is it? Capturing lossless is not CPU intensive, and cold be done 20 years ago without major CPU problems. Best is a system from only 10 years ago. Capturing needs good HDD I/O, second drive (not shared) for capture.

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  #3  
04-25-2022, 01:31 AM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by See D0S run View Post
In the "Best ATI All In Wonder card alternatives, to transfer tapes to digital?" thread, lordsmurf recommends the "Matrox MX02 HD + analog PCIe capture card" for a professional grade setup.
[...]
1. Why does the Matrox MX02 need an "analog PCIe capture card"? I thought the Matrox was the capture card and it connected to your PC via a cable that plugs into it's own card?
Yes, you've just gotten confused by the + sign.

"Matrox MXO2 HD + analog PCIe capture card" = Matrox MXO2 (make & model) PCIe capture card (what it is) for HD and analog [SD] (sources it accepts)

(it's an O not a 0 btw)
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  #4  
04-25-2022, 04:44 AM
See D0S run See D0S run is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
The MX02 is no longer recommended. There are some USB options that are comparable.
Is there a particular reason its no longer recommended? For what its worth, I've found one that would work out about the same price as an ATI TV Wonder 600 by the looks of it...

Speaking of the USB options... I assume the ATI TV Wonder 600 is the main one but is the Hauppauge 610 USB2 capture stick still recommended? I have found a new 610 for sale.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
OS is the main problem. If your "modern system" uses Win10/11, you'll have a horrible time capturing. XP/7 was the bset OS for capturing, least issues. So perhaps that "old" (probably not really old) PC is the best tool for this task.

What CPU is it? Capturing lossless is not CPU intensive, and cold be done 20 years ago without major CPU problems. Best is a system from only 10 years ago. Capturing needs good HDD I/O, second drive (not shared) for capture.
My "modern" system has a 1st gen Ryzen processor, so it might be a little too new, but I also have access to a computer from around 2012 which has an Intel i5 2500k, an AMD based system from 2011 which has an Athlon II if memory serves, and a Dell e521 (from around 2007). I can easily get my hands on an older version of Windows too.

As for the storage disk, would an SSD do the job any better than a HDD?

Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post
Yes, you've just gotten confused by the + sign.

"Matrox MXO2 HD + analog PCIe capture card" = Matrox MXO2 (make & model) PCIe capture card (what it is) for HD and analog [SD] (sources it accepts)

(it's an O not a 0 btw)
Thank you for the clarification.
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  #5  
04-25-2022, 01:37 PM
BW37 BW37 is offline
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Just to further clarify on what's required to use an MXO2 for capture.

Hardware:
Power supply for MXO2
MXO2 (multiple varieties from Mini's to Rack mount some with SDI output)
Analog input adapter (s-video to separate Y-C RCA plugs) from playback device
Analog audio cable
PCIe Connector cable (Matrox PCIe cable or equivalent HP Molex Q3938-67942 printer cable)

Matrox Y7347-1100 Video Capture Card (PCIe cable to PCIe bus card)
OR
Matrox MXO2 PCIe ExpressCard/34 adapter AND a ExpressCard/34 to PCIe bus card
(eg: PCIe to 34mm Express Card 2.0 adapter)
Note: I've tried. Both options work.

This would be a complete kit

So not exactly as simple as a USB dongle
But maybe more reliable and less touchy with USB bandwidth issues, etc. I'm not sure...

Software:
Matrox Utilities "mtxutil" latest version is 8.0 (I believe) supports Windows 8.1

The software provides support for the hardware and also a video capture application to capture uncompressed AVI files. I was not able to access my MXO2 from within VirtualDub 1.9.11 but may not have known where to look (no directshow support for MXO2). The Matrox capture software is very limited in what can be controlled, but does appear to do a good job with the captures it creates.

I only played around with the hardware I pieced together enough to know that it can be made to work, at least in Win7 and maybe Win10 (I think I tried circa mid-2020 - have not tried recently). I bought everything very cheap via eBay. The first MXO2 mini was DOA, the second works.

I believe the signal is all digital from the output cable to the PC so the term "analog PCIe card" is probably incorrect.

My
BW37
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  #6  
04-26-2022, 04:32 PM
See D0S run See D0S run is offline
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I'll just say right off the bat that I'm still undecided on what capture device to get... @lordsmurf, do you still have the ATI TV Wonder 600 USB or the PAL version of the Pinnacle USB for sale (i.e. are they an option for me)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 View Post
Just to further clarify on what's required to use an MXO2 for capture.

Hardware:

*snip
I've found the MXO2 and it's PCIe card for sale for a reasonable price ($100 for the MSO2 LE unit and "Xi Link" internal PCIe card). I would need a PSU (but I'd prefer getting a new one anyway), the cable to connect my VCR to the MSO2 unit, and the PCIe cable which (somewhat surprisingly) I've found for sale, new, and for a reasonable price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 View Post
This would be a complete kit

So not exactly as simple as a USB dongle
But maybe more reliable and less touchy with USB bandwidth issues, etc. I'm not sure...
Thanks for the link, it'll be useful as a reference even if the seller wouldn't ship to me in the UK.

As for the issue of simplicity... I don't mind a bit of added complexity if I end up with a better result (either in terms of quality or reliability) but in that regard, I'm happy to defer to the advice of people like yourself and lordsmurf, who know a heck of a lot more than I do!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 View Post
Software:
Matrox Utilities "mtxutil" latest version is 8.0 (I believe) supports Windows 8.1
Any advice on where the get my hands on mtxutil?... as for it supporting Windows 8.1, that's okay...ish. All I can say is at least it's not 8.0 only! I detest 8.0's UI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 View Post
The software provides support for the hardware and also a video capture application to capture uncompressed AVI files. I was not able to access my MXO2 from within VirtualDub 1.9.11 but may not have known where to look (no directshow support for MXO2). The Matrox capture software is very limited in what can be controlled, but does appear to do a good job with the captures it creates.
It's interesting that you say that because in the "Best ATI All In Wonder Card Alternatives" thread where the MXO2 is listed, it specifically mentions that the other professional grade card isn't compatible with Virtualdub, but doesn't say that the MXO2 isn't. Its certainly something else I need to look into though, thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 View Post
I only played around with the hardware I pieced together enough to know that it can be made to work, at least in Win7 and maybe Win10 (I think I tried circa mid-2020 - have not tried recently).
I know that your experience is limited with the MXO2 but would you recommend it in the event that I can't find an ATI TV Wonder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 View Post
I believe the signal is all digital from the output cable to the PC so the term "analog PCIe card" is probably incorrect.

My
BW37
I agree. That was just the product of my misreading the term "Matrox MX02 HD + analog PCIe capture card"

Last edited by See D0S run; 04-26-2022 at 04:55 PM.
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  #7  
04-26-2022, 06:31 PM
BW37 BW37 is offline
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Just a quick reply for now. Dinner awaits...

Sorry I can't help on making a choice between an ATI TV Wonder 600 USB and an MXO2. I have no personal experience with the 600 and have little experience with the MXO2.

I remember LS was (in the not to distant past) going to evaluate an MXO2 and report back, but I've not seen anything other than his recent thumbs down. I do not know his reasoning on this.

I just did a search on this forum using the Google custom search box. I just typed in "mxo2 in virtualdub".

Quite a few interesting threads are returned. It appears that at least some users ARE able to get the MXO2's to work in VirtualDub, user "jjdd" for one. He describes having to install FFDSHOW to make it happen here. He seems to like the results he was getting with the MXO2.

I never got to trying FFDSHOW before having to box up all of my accumulated capture hardware and software to make a move. I'm still unpacking and setting stuff up so I can't try anything quite yet. I hope in a month or so I can start playing with my toys again in a much improved, dedicated space (not the kitchen table anymore)

I suspect it was from reading some of those threads back in 2020 that I decided to purchase an MXO2 on the cheap just to try it.

BW
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  #8  
05-06-2022, 07:13 PM
The_Outsider The_Outsider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by See D0S run View Post
Any advice on where the get my hands on mtxutil?... as for it supporting Windows 8.1, that's okay...ish. All I can say is at least it's not 8.0 only! I detest 8.0's UI.
A year ago, I searched out all the versions of Matrox software I could find.

The newest version I found was:

"Matrox Mtx.utils version 8.0.15342 for Windows 10". The zip file is 1.32 gigs. But that includes everything. Just the utilities installer is 150 megs.

I know it says for Windows 10; the previous version I was able to find (see the attached image) says for Windows 7, so ...

Anyway, I'm willing to throw whatever version you (or anyone else) may want on Dropbox or Google Drive or wherever.

(Sorry, double posted)


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  #9  
05-06-2022, 07:35 PM
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Send it to me so I can post it on the CDN.

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  #10  
07-27-2022, 07:19 PM
The_Outsider The_Outsider is offline
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Anyone who still needs/wants these can download them here:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/900xgoyyg...YiVAw1sIa?dl=0

I'll be deleting them in about a week, and then posting a few more Matrox files I didn't have space for with the rest.

-- merged --

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Outsider View Post
Anyone who still needs/wants these can download them here:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/900xgoyyg...YiVAw1sIa?dl=0

I'll be deleting them in about a week, and then posting a few more Matrox files I didn't have space for with the rest.
Turns out, there's a traffic limit on shared files. I did not know that! I'm also not sure how long it lasts. I'll see what I can do.
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  #11  
07-31-2022, 12:51 PM
The_Outsider The_Outsider is offline
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Here is a new link. The folder now includes every file I have. This folder will be available until near the end of August.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ul5awhji3...3O-iZQEpa?dl=0
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  #12  
08-15-2022, 11:49 AM
mputerio mputerio is offline
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Just to comment on ATI TV Wonder 600 USB vs MXO2 -- I have both of these devices and can not figure out how to make the ATI 600 not have a super choppy video input using VirtualDub. I followed sanlyn's guide step by step, to no avail. I had set aside the MXO2 since it doesn't seem to work with VirtualDub but after reading some posts here, I figured I'd give the Matrox AV Utils a shot and to my surprise, it works absolutely perfectly. Completely smooth. Definitely a win for the MXO2 here. I got the MXO2 super cheap off ebay, probably paid more for the PCIe card also off ebay, special ordered the host cable through B&H, and it's all working great. Maybe it's because I'm using Windows 10, but given my success with the MXO2, I think I'll be sticking with that. Btw I am using the Burst Electronics Pixie-FS TBC. I built my own case for it with a custom interface for the controls since I couldn't stand the tiny buttons the way it came from the factory. It looks like crap but is much easier to use!

Also, you can download the Matrox software from their website. It's listed under "Legacy Products": https://www.matrox.com/en/video/apps...legacyProducts


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  #13  
08-15-2022, 12:34 PM
The_Outsider The_Outsider is offline
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I figured I'd give the Matrox AV Utils a shot and to my surprise, it works absolutely perfectly.
Do you know which version of the utilities you installed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mputerio View Post
Also, you can download the Matrox software from their website. It's listed under "Legacy Products": https://www.matrox.com/en/video/apps...legacyProducts
I wish I could remember all the different locations I used to find software. I do know one of them was the disc that came with one of the MX02 minis I purchased off eBay, which to my surprise shipped in the original box!
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  #14  
08-15-2022, 02:07 PM
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ATI is the preview, fix it in timing settings. Disable the (something, forget without looking) for the audio preview. Just screen cap you timing settings, attach image here, let me look at it.

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  #15  
08-15-2022, 03:49 PM
altairst8te1974 altairst8te1974 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mputerio View Post
Just to comment on ATI TV Wonder 600 USB vs MXO2[/url]
I have gone a bit mad hunting for bits. I recently acquired an MX02, boxed. It appears broadly unused... maybe never used? the pci-e card and laptop card adaptor are sealed in little boxes, like they were never even installed?

I also snagged an AJA Kona. Piling all this into a collection of Ati all in wonder cards of all flavours.
I will dig further into my hoard of old pc stuff, im sure there are all sorts of old pci capture cards. Sadly I do not have any Ati usb adaptors

Your positive results with the MX02 is encouraging! I am aiming to get mine setup and no doubt will need help at some point.

I am really interested in that device you built with all the buttons! you say it looks terrible but if it works then so be it
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08-15-2022, 09:05 PM
mputerio mputerio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by altairst8te1974 View Post
I have gone a bit mad hunting for bits. I recently acquired an MX02, boxed. It appears broadly unused... maybe never used? the pci-e card and laptop card adaptor are sealed in little boxes, like they were never even installed?

I also snagged an AJA Kona. Piling all this into a collection of Ati all in wonder cards of all flavours.
I will dig further into my hoard of old pc stuff, im sure there are all sorts of old pci capture cards. Sadly I do not have any Ati usb adaptors

Your positive results with the MX02 is encouraging! I am aiming to get mine setup and no doubt will need help at some point.

I am really interested in that device you built with all the buttons! you say it looks terrible but if it works then so be it
On second thought, I donít want to turn people away from the ATI because since posting I discovered I may have a hardware error with my ATI USB cord or with my system USB bus itself. I kept getting errors where the ATI would error out in the device manager, so I used a short USB 3 capable extension cord (just what I had- the device is usb2) and that still gave me the same choppy video errors, but I noticed the system kept detecting a device connecting and disconnecting, and realized the actual 10 inch ATI silver USB cable itself was causing some sort of problem that windows interpreted as a device connecting and disconnecting. I have it plugged into a USB3 port as I figured even if the device itself canít use usb3, maybe that would ensure a more stable connection, but something is clearly wrong. I think Iíll re-try the ATI without the included silver cable plugged in, maybe Iíll plug it into a USB 2 only port, using my own usb3 extension cable. I originally thought that the problem was caused by the weight of the s-video and audio cables pulling the usb dongle down, but this isnít the case as the silver cable itself kept showing up as a device disconnecting and reconnecting. Given that testing using the catalyst media center for over the air tv also appears choppy, I now donít think this is related to my virtual dub settings, and seems more likely due to a usb issue or maybe a hardware issue with the ati card itself. Like I said Iíll keep messing with it - I would like to make it work given the power of virtual dub, even though the MXO2 does work.

But yes the MXO2 just worked fine with my first capture but one immediate downside is that at least for the MXO2 LE MAX I have, you only get two options for capture codec- uncompressed 8 bit, and MPEG2 (which I assume the compression is done on the device). Even though I will be burning these videos to a DVD for the ďcustomerĒ (my parents), I opted to capture uncompressed because I didnít want to throw away any quality for the sake of post editing. If you can get the ATI or any other virtual dub device working, even lossless huffyuv or similar will give you something like a 2:1 compression ratio. Of course, I can always use vdub now to take that huge uncompressed file (150-160 GB for a 2 hour 720x480 NTSC video) and process it into a compressed lossless huffyuv file. Iíve been reading up on how to use avisynth and virtual dub so Iíll do some playing around.

And thanks! On the custom pixie-fs interface (sorry for post length/sort of off topic):
The pixie-fs custom interface was kind of a pain to make mostly because Iím not very experienced in soldering to circuit boards and at one point even thought I had accidentally destroyed an expensive TBC, but fortunately was able to re-flow one solder pad, and miraculously found a random test point on the board for another button trace that I screwed up. I had to solder jumpers to +5v and ground (to power my own indicator LEDs, add connectors to the two existing LED solder pads, connect jumpers to the inc/dec buttons, and 4 jumpers to the rotary switch which outputs a binary number 0-9 for the existing rotary switch. I then used that 8-column interlock switch which is 4pdt (4 pole double throw- only need 4 pole single throw- 4 are required for the binary bits, but since it only goes up to 9, I could cheat and get away with using 1 of the poles for the LED indicator at the cost of using a different pole to turn on the indicator LED for the 9th option/8th switch ďs-videoĒ). I ran a ground jumper across the common pins of all poles of the switches, and wired up the binary number for each corresponding switch. There are 9 modes on the pixie-fs but I could only find an 8-column switch on Amazon although I do have a 10-column one on order from AliExpress. Thatís why I have a separate toggle switch surrounded by JB weld for the genlock option, since I didnít have enough on the interlock switch. Since I was impatient and wanted to get this working asap I choose to do that rather than wait for the proper part to come in from China. Of course that means if I switch on the genlock mode, any subsequent mode on the interlock switch I choose will screw up the mode, I just have to know not to do that. I thought about writing ďonly one red LED may be on at a timeĒ but since this is just for me, I think Iíll remember 😅. After I put it together I realized one of the binary digit jumpers wasnít working, and of course I had tried to secure those 4 jumpers with adhesive shrink tubing so I had to carefully desolder those 4 pins, re-flow the inoperative digit solder pad, since the only other test point for that digit was covered in some sort of red epoxy on the circuit board, and of course this was after staying up all night working on this, but it works now! This was all inspired by the fact that there is an internal jumper to set the output format from composite video to s-video, which was the first switch I wired up, and the easiest since I just used a 3-pin 2.54mm connector which fit perfectly on the jumper pins.
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