Current capture device recommendations?

[lordsmurf]

There's not really that many exceptions, If that was the case, the general rule would reflect it. Because, again, general rules (generalities) exist because generally true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lollo2

Not even mask the head switching noise? You watch the captures only on a TV hiding the overscan then, but that's not so common nowadays

Nope. Not for this certain hobby task.

Quote:

Originally Posted by autephex

As far as I've understood, all DVD recorders contain image stabilization built in but only a couple stabilize the image in passthrough. Hence, you can record to a dvd recorder using a non-TBC VCR without a TBC in the chain, and still get a stable image if the tape is decent.

That's not correct.

All DVD recorders must contain a mere basic non-TBC frame sync. It locks input. That input can be crappy, drop frames before the frame sync.

non-TBC VCR to non-TBC DVD recorder is just a non-TBC'd mess of video. That's the norm. And why VHS conversions off DVD recorders all generally look beyond terrible, even worse than an Easycap at times. At least the Easycap cards (Easycrap) allow lossless. non-TBC'd DVD recorder video is just ruined.

[lollo2]

Quote:

There's not really that many exceptions, If that was the case, the general rule would reflect it. Because, again, general rules (generalities) exist because generally true.

The general rule is your rule; it will reflect what you think/believe. For me it is not a rule

[autephex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

non-TBC VCR to non-TBC DVD recorder is just a non-TBC'd mess of video. That's the norm. And why VHS conversions off DVD recorders all generally look beyond terrible, even worse than an Easycap at times. At least the Easycap cards (Easycrap) allow lossless. non-TBC'd DVD recorder video is just ruined.

I dunno, that doesn't seem to be my experience. While I'm not saying there aren't usually some issues with DVD Recorded video, its far from a beyond terrible mess of video - and I've done a lot of work with avisynth fixing all kinds of problems and am familiar with what I'm looking at.

But perhaps its because I'm only really capturing commercial VHS tapes - rare movies that were never released beyond VHS - instead of more problematic tapes.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lollo2

The general rule is your rule; it will reflect what you think/believe. For me it is not a rule

No, not just me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by autephex

I dunno, that doesn't seem to be my experience.

But how many recorders have you tried? And what were the trial criteria, sources, etc?
It's too easy for understanding to be skewed from minimal experiences.

Quote:

its far from a beyond terrible mess of video

Try to fix a 6-hour mode DVD. Deinterlaced, no TBC, mess. The blocks and chroma bleeding along, even SP sources, throw off the encoding to blocks. Lack of TBC, and lack of NR on the TBCs, makes unviewable DVDs more than not. Still dropped frames, not just visual flaws. DVD recorders are just integrated capture cards, and have all the same failing. Nothing special there.

Quote:

But perhaps its because I'm only really capturing commercial VHS tapes - rare movies that were never released beyond VHS - instead of more problematic tapes.

Those sources have issues, but less obvious. Still not good, and quite obvious when viewed at a standard HDTV size these days (45"+). Main problem is anti-copy.

[autephex]

I have a JVC DR-M100, Panasonic ES-10, Magnavox ZC352MW8 (I don't use this one but have done comparison testing against the other units), and in the past I have had ES15 and several other units as well. There are obvious quality differences but I've never had problems the way I have trying to record to the AIW card w/o TBC.

Anyway I think the big differences between our experiences are probably due to usage cases - I am not trying to deal with more problematic sources as stated, and I only use 2 hour mode for anything. I guess I should keep in mind that most people are not going to be recording the kinds of tapes I am.

Anyway, my current go to recorder is the JVC DR-M100 but would using the ES10 as passthrough be good enough to use one of those 2 exceptional capture devices posted earlier? Because I'd prefer to capture losslessly for avisynth processing, but do not have an XP build to use my AIW card currently and those devices are pretty decently priced

[lollo2]

Quote:

Anyway, my current go to recorder is the JVC DR-M100 but would using the ES10 as passthrough be good enough to use one of those 2 exceptional capture devices posted earlier? Because I'd prefer to capture losslessly for avisynth processing, but do not have an XP build to use my AIW card currently and those devices are pretty decently priced

The VCR is the most important element. If you have one of the recommended model without lineTBC you can use the ES10 in passtrough and, for instance, the GV-USB2 as capture card, not expensive and worth a try for sure. Capture to lossless (HuffYUV or similar). Post the results here once done!

[autephex]

Is the IO-Data GV USB2 more recommended than the Hauppauge USB-Live 2? Both are priced about the same but looks like the GV USB2 is only available via sellers in Japan and would require an international order, whereas the Hauppauge is available in the US (where I am located)

[lollo2]

They are equivalent.

[autephex]

Thanks, I will probably give the Hauppauge USB-Live 2 a try. If I get one and its working properly, I'll post some capture results

[lollo2]

Quote:

I will probably give the Hauppauge USB-Live 2 a try

Then, if on Windows 10, use AmarecTV 3.10 for capturing.

Quote:

I'll post some capture results

Thanks!

[andr3ws]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lollo2

Then, if on Windows 10, use AmarecTV 3.10 for capturing.

Thanks for pointing that out - looks like you saved me some headaches trying to use VirtualDub for this device. Grabbed the v3.10 download from videohelp

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

...

I'm confused... don't you recommend the " Hauppauge 610 USB2 capture stick (aka 01341 USB Live-) ~$75" in another post...? Or has that been deprecated and not updated?

I've been looking through some of the bad & good reviews of the Hauppauge 610 Live2 and from what I can see, it looks like it may be a combination of factors resulting in bad experiences.... the main one being using the proper software to capture, but it also looks like Hauppauge may have updated to better drivers in recent years (maybe) resulting in better results for more people. Then there is the factor of inexperienced people not understanding the basics of video transfer and leaving negative reviews

But I'm wondering if there has been a lot of bad experiences from knowledgeable users, who are also using the best compatible software? Because it seems to not work very well with VirtualDub, but reportedly performs flawlessly with other programs like Amarec

[lollo2]

The 2 more recent feedback I remember:

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=183936

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...vice-requested

[lordsmurf]

The issue is that the Live2 is variable. Hauppauge too often makes internal changes, chip changes. There are valid reports, verifiable, of issues with that model. It's because the model number of reused for actually different cards. The advice from 10+ years ago no longer applies for this exact card, because it's no the same card anymore.

[autephex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lollo2

The 2 more recent feedback I remember:

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=183936

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...vice-requested

Some good info in that doom9 thread, thanks. Ordered the Live2 USB device, looking forward to some lossless captures finally

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

The issue is that the Live2 is variable. Hauppauge too often makes internal changes, chip changes. There are valid reports, verifiable, of issues with that model. It's because the model number of reused for actually different cards. The advice from 10+ years ago no longer applies for this exact card, because it's no the same card anymore.

Would you say this to mean the older models are better or worse? In the linked doom9 thread from last month, it is posted several times by "Sharc" that he bought the card 10 years ago and is still using it without any problems.

And I'm still wondering about the verified problems - are the problems related to using Virtualdub since it seems to have issues with VDub? Also seems to be some possible issues with USB 2.0/3.0 ports, which have maybe been addressed in driver updates

[lollo2]

Quote:

Would you say this to mean the older models are better or worse?

No. The internal hardware is always the same, at least the video chip CX23102. I know people working with cards purchased in the last few months without issues.

On the other hand we never know what a company can do, especially video card manufacturer outsourcing everything. But this is true for almost anything.

Quote:

Thanks for pointing that out - looks like you saved me some headaches trying to use VirtualDub for this device. Grabbed the v3.10 download from videohelp

Remember also to feed the card with a Y/C signal, because its comb filter is poor!

[Hushpower]

I use the GV-USB2 without issue with Win 10 64bit and VDub 1.9.11 (not any later versions) for capture. It is absolutely bulletproof. I prefer VDub over AmarecTV because you can use the VDub histogram to accurately set the brightness and contrast in real time, while capturing, using Graphstudio (easy to set up and use).

[lollo2]

Quote:

I prefer VDub over AmarecTV because you can use the VDub histogram to accurately set the brightness and contrast in real time, while capturing, using Graphstudio

With AmarecTV you can use GraphStudio as well: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...-for-Amarec-TV (your post, in fact )

[Hushpower]

Quote:

With AmarecTV you can use GraphStudio as well

I didn't actually "progress that to it's conclusion", Lollo.

I find the VDub histogram easier to set up.

[autephex]

I've got the Hauppauge Live2 USB in now and have done the convoluted install of huffyuv2 for Windows 10 to get it to show up in available video codecs. Everything appears to be setup now. Going to try to do some captures tomorrow if I can get some free time in.... If there are any particular settings I should be aware of, would really appreciate the tip offs. Thanks

[lollo2]

AmarecTV 3.10 Settings

Graph 1(Device)	Device Setting -> Decoder video PAL_G (*)
	*w=720, h=576, fps=25,00, fcc=YUY2, bit=16
	*sample=48000, bit=16, ch= 2
Recording	Frame rate 999
	Video Compressor Other Codec HFYU

Advanced	X Wait for exit
	Video Renderer Setting
	X Auto
	X Change a "HDYC" to "UYVY"
	Record Setting
	X Use Null frame.
	X Match the start timing of the audio with a video.
	X Make a report file.