Best capture method for PAL, NTSC, upscale VHS?
 

Hello,
I´m Gaston from Argentina. I read the forum for months now, but i still have a few questions.

I´been digitizing all the family memories, and now it´s the time for tapes.
We have about a hunred VHS-C tapes half of them in PAL and half in NTSC, for PAL i have a Panasonic AG-4700 (S-vhs out and field TBC), but for NTSC i could only find a JVC HR-ES8006UM (S-VHS out but no line TBC).

1. I read LordSmurf saying that JVC decks tends to jam the tapes on VHS-C adapters. How often that happens? It worth the risk? I have a JVC C-P6U adapter.
2. Do you recomend upscaling the analog signal (with a s-vhs to HDMI adapter for example)? Or it´s better doing it later in software? (or maybe wait to AI filters to improve)?
3. What capture device gives the best quality? (i could use an old computer if need it)
4. Where i can find that capture device?
5. All Datavideo TBC-100 or 1000 are PAL And NTSC? Someone has one for sale?
6. Someone has a NTSC S-VHS deck with TBC for sale?
7. Many, Many thanks!!!

Gastón.

I can provide answers to following questions.
2. In my opinion there is no perfect method to do the upscaling and you always will be "creating data" from the picture that doesn't have it. If you want the best quality, recover it in the original format. I found that using newer amplitudes from home theatre does the job for you and will play this low res version and convert it to HDMI (so you will see black bars on the side).
3. The best answer will be "it depends" :). In general DV and the component, devices will give you the "best quality" but I read a few posts where people claim that composite gives the best results for some of the cases.
4. Well unfortunately you can find it only in this forum and Online second-hand services like eBay, Amazon etc. (If you need something trusty then this forum is probably the best place).

My advice for you will be ( like Matrix): Please stop trying to catch the rabbit :). We all want to get best possible quality from our VHS/analog cassettes but it's simply impossible to do from SD a 4K super picture. I saw these magic videos that show AI does all for you and makes SD a new 4k. I will tell you that it's just a bulls#*t. I played with Topaz and other AI software and ok in some of the cases they do the job but it's very specific scenes in the whole movie and the rest will have some kind of artefacts that just look stupid to me. For me getting the top lane external TBC is just over my budget so I get a nice VCR with TBC and then Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle to capture and to some extent I'm happy with the results but I still trying to get better gear. If you are from US you are lucky since there is a bigger market for this equipment I stuck with EU market since when I find some nice offer then there is no shipment to Poland :(. sorry for my crappy English but I hope you get my point.

Welcome. :)

Lot of tapes, fragile -C makes the project even more maddening if using wrong gear. That 4700 was probably fine, but that JVC is not great.

The JVC adapter isn't the issue, but rather the transport of most JVC VCRs. Most VCRs in general. Certain decks play VHS-C well, others eat the tapes as a snack. Certain EOL JVCs play the -C tapes quite well, no eating, as do certain Panasonics (AG1980P, etc).

The C-P6U is perfect, same as the C-P7U that I always suggest, and have for 20 years now. There are several Matsushita (then parent of both JVC and Panasonic) powered adapters, but the JVC/Victor are usually the best.

No. (software upscale)

Double no, awful. (hardware upscale)

Enjoy it at the max SD resolution. Players will upscale it for output, be it HDTV or computer. Don't mess with the source, or even the viewing copy. The only legit need for upscale is mixed content pieces, such as documentaries. Upscale has more possible losses than gains, unless part of a larger restore situation. Even then, loss must be mitigated so gains not lost.

ATI AIW (with TBSC audio) most accurate, best quality, but XP required.

You can gamble on eBay, but that usually doesn't end well. (I have a pair for dud cards here, buyer bought from eBay, didn't try to use until way after return period.)

I may have an extra AGP card here (with TBSC), recently found two in a drawer, need to test. Not sure why those were there. I sort of think those were my personal AGP cards from over a decade ago, before I did some complex upgrades.

The TBC-100 (rare PCI card) and TBC-1000 both do PAL and NTSC, yes. Basic PAL, basic NTSC. Not PAL-N, -M, etc. But DataVideo is also PAL-first or NTSC-first, the PAL or NTSC tends to be tweaked, and then it "also does" the other. For a volume of PAL and NTSC (like 100+ mixed tapes), not just some of each, certain Cypress can be better.

In this thread, this is trivia, as S-VHS decks with line TBC will be used...
The auto-switching nature of DataVideo can get in the way when using VCRs without line TBCs. Bad spots on the tape, no line correction, can confuse the TBC into switching format. The Cypress are set manually, not automagic.

Yes, marketplace. :wink2:

Not just opinion, but fact! :salute:

And it's not just "no perfect method", but most are truly terrible and destructive, barfing artifacts everywhere. The problem with "upscaling" is that it blends simple upsize with sharpening, anti-aliasing (or alias adding, yuck!), and interpolation (the "creating data"). It can be a nightmare, with the output being unviewable trash,

Almost never.

Very rarely. And when you think you found that rare case, you're probably still wrong, because it's just that rare.

Just do the best possible, without forcing it. Using good hardware (TBCs, capture cards) is the best possible. Trying to make it perfect HD/4K/8K is where it gets silly, overboard, like an alchemist trying to turn ___ (insert random item here) into gold.

Correct. Cherry picked samples.
Overall lousy to watch, not enjoyable whatsoever, distracting artifacts.

There are always options between best and none, budget areas. You have to know where you can sacrifice, and where you cannot. The BM cards are infamous for lousy SD captures, due to dropped frames even with TBC. But without frame TBC (not just line), it's a mess, black frames, more dropped frames, etc. You require some form of frame.

But remember: buy it, use it, resell it, quality gear holds values. Crap gear is yours forever, no recoup of funds.

I ship gear worldwide, and have to Poland before. :wink2:

Not everybody is a xenophobe. I enjoyed making friend and contacts worldwide for decades now.

Resizing in software is always better than hardware upscaling, Software does it at slow pace frame by frame, the high quality ones work at around 10 frames a second, Hardware upscaling is done in real time so compromises have to be made especially if the hardware is low quality like some cheap 4k TV's. Having said all that always keep the master files at their native interlaced resolution 720x480/576.