ES15 for VHS to VHS copy? S-VHS VCR better?
 

I haven't found anything online so I'm assuming benefits are minimal but I'd like to make sure my backups are the highest possible quality. Furthermore, will an S-VHS VCR in good condition produce better homemade tapes than a standard VCR also in good condition? I'm planning on making some more digital-to-VHS transfers soon and again, would like to aim for the highest possible quality within my budget.

Thanks for your time.

VHS > VHS is really no different than VHS > digital
therefore: VCR > TBCs > VCR

Ideally S-VHS VCR with line TBC > frame TBC > recording VCR

The quality of a S-VHS deck is beyond most consumer VHS decks. So even ignoring S-VHS, s-video, line TBC, yes, still much better. I used JVC HR-S3800 S0VHS non-TBC decks for recording for years. The playback was JVC HR-S9800 > AVT-8710 or TBC-10000

The ES10/15 has a strong+crippled line TBC, with non-TBC frame sync.
For ES10/15 will be better than nothing (ie, VCR > VCR), but problems can still happen. VHS>VHS is not as fiddly as VHS>digital, but still not idiot-proof if the goal is something that doesn't look ruined and degraded.

No, if you're doing digital > VHS, then you may simply need proper NTSC/PAL output to the VCR, nothing else needed.

Some of my earlier restoration work was using a Pentium to VHS. So nothing you're doing here is something I've not already done before.

Hey lordsmurf, thanks for your reply. I have an ES15 that I grabbed online a few months ago in my workflow, and a JVC HR-S2911U in what appears to be great shape on its way. Currently don't have the funds for a higher end S-VHS let alone a proper TBC, but I'm keeping my eyes open for a deal. Hoping to at least pick up for a JVC HR-S7500U or higher.

In regards to this I've been using my PS3. However the video I copied had was progressive and had a framerate of 23.97, and upon transferring has a sort of soap opera, or British feel, i.e. the video is smooth but in a way that feels cinematically unnatural to me. The 3:2 pulldown to 29.97 and interlacing conversion I did in Adobe Premiere Pro looks great on my PC screen, but I haven't had a chance to copy it over yet. In your estimation and experience, does this step matter at all?

Thanks again for the help. One of the reason I purchased Premium was because of all the great free information I've received reading yours and other users posts - plus I'm a dummy and will probably be asking questions all year lol. Your knowledge is all very appreciated.

The 29xx decks are EOL budget runs from JVC, and could be good or bad even when new. I have a hard time getting 29xx, 59xx, and 101 units into better than B+ shape. It's just a cheaply made deck, more like consumer than not. The transport is too loose, too much slop and wiggle.

These days, expect it to have issues, being 20 years old, especially anything from eBay. eBay sellers are idiots when it comes to truly understanding what "working" should mean, and what "tested" actually entails. Not just tossing a crummy old retail tape in, pressing play, and seeing any quality image being barfed out.

Those 7500 are screwy at times, same for 9500, I'd go for at least 7600/9600 in the HR line. You really have to vet those x500 decks. I tend to avoid them on purpose.

PS3 is a fun game system, always a lousy player.

Pulldown on true interlace content will be jerky and often unwatchable.

We're all dummies somewhere. But that can be a temporary condition, when you learn something new. At worst, hopefully, a bit less dumb. At best, develop some knowledge and skill.

Premiere is great, but I stopped at the last "owned" version (CS6), before all the subscription requirements. I'll be migrating to FCP on an M2 Mac here this year, because I want to own software, not rent monthly. CS6 was fine for SD editing, but I plan to do HD and 4K for Youtube starting this year. I'd only rent the CC Suite if I had a monthly editing need that turned an editing profit. FCP owned costs what Adobe does for about 5-6 months of rent.

Glad to hear I've helped you. :)

This is great info. At the very least I'm hoping the HR-S2911U will be better than my Toshiba W614 or Philips DVP 3150V VHS/DVD combo unit - and while those have honestly sufficed for what looks good to me, I'm still looking to maximize my personal recording quality in the budget range where I can. However when in the next few months when I have the funds for something bigger I'll focus on grabbing an HR-7600/9600 based on your advice. I'll probably also be checking in on your posts in the Marketplace for a good JVC S-VHS unit. I've utilized eBay a lot and find them pretty handy for a lot of the things I buy, I don't typically buy anything over $200-ish because the risk is too great.

So far I've found the PS3 to work pretty well for my transfer needs, mostly because I already own it, and, realistically, because I'm new to this and have a budget. Out of curiosity, what do you think are the best low budget and high budget options for converting digital to VHS?

Not a fan of Adobe's subscription model either. I try to use free and open source where I'm able but that's not always a realistic option. I do a lot of visual art and indie design work with GIMP, but since getting into video recently it's been pretty obvious that for what I want to do, paid software is the best choice. I love the M series Macs though, I'm just really not a fan of MacOS. I had an M1 Mac Mini I was going to use for my main music and design work, but after a few months with MacOS and the various new softwares I felt like I was being held back and went back to what I knew. Plus, there's more obscure software for Windows that I always seem to eventually need to utilize within weeks of switching to Linux or Mac systems. I'll probably forget why I didn't like the Mini and give it another go in a few years - lol.

Digital to VHS, not a common direction these days. Making the VHS copy from the digital int4rmediary would allow for image cleanup/restoration work before you make the copy if that is of interest.

I agree, use S-VHS VCRs if for no other reason than it avoids the Y/C -> composite -> Y/C conversions you will face using VHS decks since the recording on tape is essentially a Y/C format. (The S-VHS recording format does provide improved luminance resolution but color is the same as VHS.)

You mention this is to make backup. IMO Your digital or original VHS copies will be better "backups" (if Backup is to allow future restore at minimal quality loss). I whould use the copies for routine playback.

The reasons for the significant generation loss with VHS are clear. They are driven largely by increases in noise and the limited frequency response. The desired signal is copies at a 1:1 (unity gain) hopefully, while the system noise is added. Assuming similar gear, the background random hiss and noise will increase by about 3 dB in the copy playback. Similarly the image frequencies (resolution) that are -3 dB in the original will be -6 dB in the copy. To this one can add any additional signal processing the VCRs might do.

While this might not sound like a lot the VHS design was with cost in mind meaning that the criteria was to provide an original recording playback that was just acceptable to most consumers on the TV sets of that era. Thus any losses become apparent in a hurry.

I stopped using Premiere years ago, I also do not like the annual licensing option (although it may make sense for short term requirements). I use EDIUS as my main NLE. It is offered on a one-time cost basis.

Just want to chime in to 100% agree with avoiding the x500 decks based on my experience with a 9500 that seemed great. Played 10-15 tapes perfectly and then started eating them and hasn't worked since. Wasn't about to get into fixing it, so I set it aside as a ~$250 sunk cost.

Just a thought -- Not long ago I picked up a mint HD2000 in the box with everything from original owner for a reasonable price, but I just saw one that was pretty similar to mine and it sold for only $377 (a good chunk lower). With inflation continuing to rise you'll keep seeing less people deciding to spend money on this stuff, or at least to spend less if they are buying 20+ year-old VHS equipment for DIY digitizing. So keep a constant eye on eBay for all the best decks and be ready when the right one shows up being sold by the original owner in great shape. That is, if you don't get one from LS.

Good news, if you get a VCR and it doesn't work or is at all messed up and the listing said it works, you file a claim and you get refunded. It's the one thing eBay is good for, they side with the buyer.