Mac vs. PC controversy for video capturing?
I'm a Mac guy, and want to capture Hi8 tapes. When I posted some questions last year, the advice overwhelmingly was to buy a PC. It's been 35 years of exclusively Mac use for me, so that decision won't come easy, and one estimate to create an "ideal" dedicated capture PC came in at well over a grand.
But cost aside, I'm trying hard to understand the Mac vs PC discussion, which is very hard for me because I understand almost nothing about PC terminology and only some of the Mac terminology. So some of the advice I got last year about PC specs that I needed to search for went right over my head. Still does. LS says that the main issue that makes Macs the inferior capture choice is software. OBS, popular on Macs, records from the screen, not from the conversion card output. (I can understand that much. If true, booo OBS.) He also said that the Mac's iMovie software wrongly processes and/or induces too much overhead that results in dropped frames. So I guess that iMovie is simply coded poorly for our purposes - as in, not created with video capture as the priority. It seems to me that makes OBS and iMovie poor choices. I still don't get what about Macs specifically makes them a poor choice for video capture. LS recommended I buy a DataVideo TBC, which I did. He also recommended the Tevion capture card, which I bought. Since the Tevion only came with PC capture software, LS told me to use VideoGlide. I trust his judgement, so that's what I installed and have captured one or two tapes to my Mac using that system. I have the finished video files, but nothing to compare them to, so I don't know how close to "ideal" I've gotten with this system and whether or not a PC would make that huge of a difference. So is VideoGlide in fact still another questionable program like OBS or iMovie in that it doesn't capture video at the highest possible quality - whereas some PC software would? The VideoGlide webpage sites all these technical stats, a whole list of them, to make it sound like their captures are top-quality. They don't seem to me to be marketing themselves to dummies. Is even VideoGlide in fact still not equal in finished captured image quality compared to whatever capture software you PC users use? And if so, what's the difference? And how remarkable would the difference be if we could see the two captures side by side on a TV screen? What am I still missing that would demand I spend a grand or more for an older customized PC and capture software to maximize the capture quality of my tapes? -JOHN If anyone's interested, from the VideoGlide website: Quote:
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There's no controversy.
I actually get irritated when I read "Mac vs. PC", because a Mac is a personal computer (PC). Computers can have many OS, including versions of Windows and Linux, among others. Understand that computer are just tools. Hammers or toasters, but with semiconductors and PCBs. When you romanticize computers (ie, "AI!"), or become a "fan" of a certain brand ("Apple rules, Windows drools!"), you lose focus. Forget the nonsense/BS, always see it as a tool. The hardware is a tool. The OS is a tool. The software is a tool. Certain hardware can only run certain OS, and certain OS can only run certain software. So there is a "sweet spot" to do the task needed. Sometimes the stars align, and the same software is available on all the standard OS, such as Firefox and Chrome. But most software is far more specialized, especially for niche tasks. So, for example, FCP is a NLE only for Mac, while Vegas is an NLE only for Windows. But then, that example is just one of preference, as both editors do fine for the task of editing. The real pickle is when you have hardware or a genre of software that ONLY exists on a certain OS. And that's where SD analog video capture exists. It's a Windows world, others fail to perform or function. Mac doesn't support SD video because Steve Jobs was stubborn, myopic even, when it came to video. He just didn't foresee digital video becoming what it is today. He often gets praise for iPhones and iPods, but he really screwed the pooch multiple times over the decades. So all we got for Mac SD was DV, the end. He waged war with Adobe/etc, and thought all we ever needed was iMovie and FCP and Quicktime. How arrogant, how ridiculous. He eventually righted this wrong, but it was already an HD world by then. SD still got nothing. Quote:
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I never understand the pushback on the costs of a Windows system from an Apple user. The Windows system is a fraction of the cost, and more powerful. Quote:
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OS X to 10.14 have a very tiny selection of decent cards (ie, ATI 600 USB clones), and some crap (Easycaps), that could be used with VideoGlide. But in that ended years ago, especially on the new M CPU systems. Quote:
Furthermore, OBS compressed the hell out of video (H.264). It can now use Huffyuv, but it's apparently the ffmpeg/ffdshow version, which is NOT suited to capture (only post-capture encoding). More often than not the ffmpeg version corrupts. And it uses the wrong rec colorspace. It's made for digital HD, not analog SD. Quote:
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VCR > TBC > capture card. Not just any devices, but ones specific to quality for this task. Ideally: JVC S-VHS with line TBC > recommended DataVideo/Cypress type frame TBC > recommended certain ATI/Pinnacle type capture card, or certain LSI DVD recorders That gives best experience, best quality. Quote:
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But remember: everybody thinks their feces smells like roses. Nobody ever says "our company makes middling items for the masses". No, it's all "best ever" whatever. Quote:
The biggest difference is the options, namely 720x480 max res, and compression. The VideoGlide choices for codec are narrow, and the res is capped at 640 (which is fine, but non-standard historically). Quote:
The difference is simply your own sanity. When you cut corners, it's not free. The money aspect, yes. But the cost is in frustration, aggravation -- ie, sanity. I value mine, so I use gear that doesn't fight me, doesn't make my capture life miserable. And, of course, gives quality. |
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OBS use to be just a screen capture, maybe they've evolved and are actually listening to the capturing community but it is still unclear to which layer they actually take the video stream of off, Is it the card driver? is it the OS graphic interface? ... That's why I tend to stay away from it.
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But the compression option issue remains. MagicYUV/Utvideo lossless isn't good for capturing (just intermediary), ProRes422 doesn't always show, and uncompressed is a lousy option due to size. But if you insist on Mac, those are your options. Not bad/unworkable, just not a great user experience as found on Windows. Quote:
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I ask because, while I have a hard time justifying an entire second computer just for video capture, my wife is starting to ask for a computer of her own, a Windows, that can run this fabric cutting machine she owns. It's an expensive machine that she got for free, and she's making a fuss that she can't use it because she doesn't have the computer to run it. (All beside the point.) So if I bought a spanking new Windows computer, would the most current OS allow for the best software and recommended A/D converter to create a top-tier video capture station? Pessimistic and ignorant, but still asking. :unsure: |
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Video capture was a 2000s task, not a 2020s task. You'll run into driver and software issues with anything too new as well. You can sometimes find workarounds, and sometimes not. You make it harder on yourself bu choosing the wrong OS. WinXP and Win7 best. WinVista works, but overall sucks, extra steps to everything. Win8 can go either way, works fine or not at all ever. Win10 can be iffy at times, often needs fiddly workarounds. Win11, no idea, good luck. You'd need to post computer spec needed by the sewing machines, to see if something can be used to do both tasks. But I sure would not want to, probably conflicts. |
Lately, in the course of helping a friend save a file from camcorder to Mac, I came across a program called SwiftCapture by Ben Software, which is supposed to handle SD composite video from your interface. I was going to try it last night, on my one Apple desktop (Im a Windows guy mainly), a 2009 Mac Mini, but I'll need a more recent machine to run the required OS 10.13 and above. Anyway, it's free to try for 30 days, and costs £29 to buy. Might be worth a try.
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Reading the docs, it expects progressive HD sources. |
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- How many have you seen? - How many capture systems do you actually set up? Because I'm betting it's far fewer than I do. This site was setup decades ago as my personal notebook, shared with the public. Eventually the forum was added, so I could interact with others, talk with them, not just at them via guides. When I speak about various concepts, it's because I have done them at volume. It's obviously grown beyond just me, and there are many conversations these days where I don't participate (and/or can't participate, ie thin to no knowledge on the topic). But when I do, it's often because I have a decent body of experience. Not just one-offs like your average Youtuber. When I see something like "but my system did __" it doesn't disprove anything I write. All it does is show that you had a different experience. Great! :) Now, sometimes I'm suspect of the claims. And sometimes I know the claims are outright BS, not possible. Other times, it makes me want to recreate that success on my end. And I often do try. Sometimes success, sometimes not. Success can alter what I do, adopt it. I have no doubt that some folks are finding Win10 capture success. The conundrum is why, what hardware, what variables are at play. We have isolated some issues to Nvidia cards (and those WIn10 drivers), and found some workarounds. But others are still a mystery, In the past few years of "Win10", I've run into issues. All cards, software, system hardware. It's always something somewhere. Sometimes it's like threading a needle, hoping to that perfect combo that doesn't give "Win10" a fit. (I write "Win10" because Windows 10 is more like a platform, not a single OS. Certain updates essentially make it an entirely new OS, sort of like Win95 to Win98 to WinME.) Quote:
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The developer(s) made a nifty software to "broadcast" (a stretch of the term) game recording on game platforms. It did begin purely as a simple screen recorder, not too different from Fraps, CamStudio, and others (at that time; all are now defunct). But better for his needs. As it became more popular, in came requests for it to "also do" other tasks. Some were naturals extensions, such as webcams. Others were not, such as analog capture. OBS is a great tool, used properly. But it's simply not an analog capture software. You can read the history of the project here: https://thenewstack.io/how-one-game-...ng-revolution/ I actually read some fairly complex documentation on OBS (no idea where anymore, it's all spread out like most open-source docs), and the analog capture seems to be an extension of screen recording. It's not the upper layer, where it'd record your mouse, or voice on a mic. But in a prior layer, intercepting the preview output, rather than the actual output. Although that was not "current" info (also not "outdated"), it does appear to be built on the existing framework. Analog capture would likely require an entirely different software approach. This does make a difference in output quality. But those using OBS with crap hardware and H.264 compression never see it. For the record, a group of us had been attempting to get VirtualDub stripped down to a more pure capture app, with a better interface. Not to make it pretty, but to make some confusing options less confusing (such as the consequence of disabling reporting by deselecting certain options). But the pandemic halted it, and no movement since. |
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