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  #1  
04-27-2024, 07:57 AM
Kazuya Kazuya is offline
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Hello everyone,

I’d like to share my current setup and experiences in transferring VHS tapes to digital format, seeking feedback or tips for improvements.

I am currently testing the AGC (Automatic Gain Control) features of a Sony DVD Recorder GX350. My goal is to transfer VHS tapes with the highest possible quality. For SVHS playback, I use a Philips VR1100 with TBC (Time Base Corrector) and NR (Noise Reduction) activated, connected via S-video to an Electronic Design TBC-enhancer, and then via S-video to the Sony.

The key in my setup is using the Sony as a pass-through device to digitally transmit the signal via HDMI (with HDCP disabled HDMI splitter) into a Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle Thunderbolt. The recording is done in YUV uncompressed PAL format. I am currently making more recordings with the Sony, both with and without the Electronic Design TBC-enhancer in the chain.

I’m faced with a decision regarding the HDMI output of the Sony GX350: should I choose RGB 0-255 or RGB 16-235? With other devices like the Panasonic DVD recorders (e.g., EH675 and EX93c), I’ve noticed that whites often get clipped, especially noticeable in areas like the skin, nose, and forehead. This led me to initially experiment with the Sony recorder.

In addition to the TBC settings on the Philips VR1100, I can adjust contrast and brightness on the Electronic Design TBC-enhancer. However, I’ve read a post by Bogilein mentioning that this enhancer might crush the deep blacks. Has anyone else had similar experiences or can recommend an alternative?

Lastly, I have already digitized my collection of private recordings, VHS-C tapes, and original cassettes using my Panasonic DVD recorder EH675 and EX93c, both with and without the Electronic Design TBC-enhancer in the chain. Unfortunately, I forgot to use the ProcAmp features of the enhancer to adjust brightness and contrast, which might have prevented some issues with overly bright white levels.

Has anyone faced similar choices or issues with RGB settings on the Sony DVD Recorder? What would you recommend for achieving the best results without losing details in brighter areas? On the Panasonic DVD Recorders there is no such a setting.

I’m open to all advice and look forward to your expert opinions.

Thanks and best regards,

Kazuya

Last edited by Kazuya; 04-27-2024 at 08:04 AM. Reason: Update
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  #2  
04-27-2024, 08:22 AM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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You want to use the YCbCr 4:4:4 setting, if you are capturing HDMI output from these, not RGB. If you use RGB the signal will be converted to RGB and (and back again when you capture as YUV) and that will cut off anything outside yuv values 16-235. You can adjust the brightness and contrast to avoid any clipping from happening in the DVD-recorder itself (though that won't help with any clipping that happens earlier in the capture chain of course), and probably just disable the noise reduction if you are using the JVC TBC/DNR feature.

I've not used that TBC so can't say anything about those. If they cause any clipping anything after it won't be able to recover it obviously.

Be aware that the JVC VCRs (The philips is based on those) with TBC/DNR can also clip whites in some cases:
https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...g-capture.html
(Also, I've had issues with the dropout masking on the VR1100 and a related JVC from the same generation, not sure if it affects all of them or if I was just unlucky.)

My Video gear overview/test/repair/stuff yt channel http://youtu.be/cEyfegqQ9TU
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  #3  
04-27-2024, 08:59 AM
Kazuya Kazuya is offline
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Thanks, Hodgey. I really appreciate your help.

I have uploaded the menu settings for the HDMI output. I don't know why, but I can't select the Color Settings 4:2:2 or 4:4:4. The only settings I am allowed to activate are RGB 0-255 and RGB 16-235.

Maybe it has something to do with the HDMI splitter? If I remove the HDMI splitter from the chain, then I get no picture on the Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle Thunderbolt.

Update:
If I leave out the HDMI splitter (which ignores HDCP) and connect the Sony DVD Recorder directly to my Dell monitor via HDMI, then I get the option to choose between RGB 0-255, RGB 16-235, YCbCr 4:2:2 12-bit, and YCbCr 4:4:4. :/


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Last edited by Kazuya; 04-27-2024 at 09:14 AM.
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  #4  
04-27-2024, 11:26 AM
Kazuya Kazuya is offline
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Ok, according to the manual for the Sony DVD Recorder RDR GX350, here are some notes:

Some settings may not be available depending on the connected device.
When a DVI device is connected, you cannot select "YCbCr 4:2:2" or "YCbCr 4:4:4."
When “Screen Resolution” is set to “720 x 576i” (or “720 x 480i”) in the “HDMI Output” setup, you cannot select “YCbCr 4:2:2.”
This means that there is no way to use anything other than the RGB Conversion on a Sony Recorder as a pass-through using the HDMI method with 720x576i PAL.
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  #5  
04-27-2024, 02:21 PM
themaster1 themaster1 is offline
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You make it a big deal, i've recorded many videos using the hdmi out (576i/480i) of my sony deck, it's totally good imo
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  #6  
04-27-2024, 04:16 PM
Kazuya Kazuya is offline
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Hello themaster1,

Thank you for your response. I’m not very familiar with the Sony DVD recorder and lack visual experience with such devices. That’s why I am currently dedicating time to experimenting with the device to make some test recordings and compare image quality under different settings. Your posts, like the one on the Videohelp Forum, have been very helpful. You mentioned, “Don’t use the Y denoising, chroma denoising toward the middle is fine (it’s not that great/efficient anyway), most interesting features are the black/white levels/contrast/tint/sharpness controls.”

Following your and Hodgey’s advice, I have focused primarily on the AGC feature and disabled other functions such as Tint/Sharpness Controls as well as YNR, CNR, and Details. However, I am uncertain whether I should adjust the White Enhancer and Black Enhancer sliders while AGC is activated. Initially, I selected the ‘Picture Adjustment VCR Profile’ and made a recording with it. Now I’m experimenting with ‘Memory’ and ‘Detail settings’. Except for AGC, everything else is off, but I’m unsure whether to adjust the White and Black sliders.

I’ve also used ScopeBox on my Mac to monitor the waveform. The levels should stay below 100 and above 0 for Y, right?

Thank you all for sharing your posts and experiences over the years.
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  #7  
04-27-2024, 04:18 PM
Kazuya Kazuya is offline
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Hello everyone,

I wanted to share a quick update regarding my setup with the Sony recorder and the RGB issue. I unplugged the Sony recorder from the power source, disconnected and then reconnected the HDMI splitter from the power and HDMI cable. After these adjustments, I reset the Sony recorder and redid the setup. Now, following Hodgey’s recommendation, I can select YCbCr 4:4:4 under the HDMI options for PAL 720x576i. With this configuration in place, I’m now making new recordings in YUV 8-bit uncompressed on my Mac.

If any of you encounter the same issue, try disconnecting all cables, unplugging the devices from the power source, and reconfiguring your setup. In my case, it involved the HDMI splitter and the Sony DVD recorder. This might resolve the problem.

Thanks for all the guidance!
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  #8  
04-28-2024, 06:05 AM
themaster1 themaster1 is offline
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SONY RDR HXD 890 / HDMI RGB OUT VS DVD / BELLE NUIT TEST CHART / PAL

video (500MB, UT codec)
https://mega.nz/file/AlA3nRra#O6RENo...EVlCRckX34_5zI


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