#1  
05-17-2024, 12:19 AM
maups2 maups2 is offline
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Hello, I have found a good condition (single owner- family use)
JVC HR-DVS1U on facebook marketplace. I plan to purchase that, plus an IO Data GV-USB2 for a capture card.

I am seeking advice if there is a superior capture card that will work with Windows 10 PC.

I would also appreciate advice if the S-VHS (with TBC?) is a good buy. I was able to talk them down from $500 down to $300.

I would sincerely appreciate input or advice. Thank you.
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  #2  
05-17-2024, 04:00 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Yes, there are several better cards than GV-USB2. But if you're trying to be cheap, it's the "best" (relative term) of the cheap cards.

But a VCR from Facebook? Good luck with that. You're gambling, not buying.

And I can almost guarantee that "single owner, family used" is complete BS. Those decks were not marketed or sold to consumers, but rather education (colleges, high schools) and government, sometimes small studios, mostly through CDW. The prices for those were almost $1.5k new, at a time when the arguably better HR-S9900/9911 were about $600 new. That story would likely fall apart, without receipts to prove it. Many JVC S-VHS combo units were clearance at eCost.com for "only" $1k or so in the mid to late 2000s. I don't even think B&H ever carried these.

The DVS1 can be good, but that specific model usually has issues. There's a reason so few now exist, and also a reason that I've always avoided it.

All JVC "DV combo" units have flawed engineering, and always eventually eats tapes. There is no repair, no parts. And a DV camera is better anyway. So never buy it for DV, only VHS.

Both DVS1 and DVS2 are boat anchors, never ship those.

The best advice is to pay for a refurb'd unit, from a reputable seller. Don't gamble. eBay has a lot of lying/idiot sellers, but Facebook is vastly worse. Understand that video gear is all 20+ years old now. Would you buy a car that is 20 years old, without a full inspection from a certified mechanic? There's really not much difference here. "It looks good" (on the outside) is how people get ripped off all the time (cars, VCR, etc).

If you still insist on doing it, at least now you know what you're getting yourself into. What can happen, what is most likely to happen. It's not a "nice family" out there on Facebook Marketplace, but mostly lies and scum.

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  #3  
05-17-2024, 10:28 AM
ThumperStrauss ThumperStrauss is offline
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I bought a similar model on Facebook Marketplace. Actually, I bought two from the same guy. I assume they had been used in a school environment and got way more use than some recording a few show each week or watching a few movies from Blockbusters. And LS is correct that the DV part of the player is not great, but I suspect you are more interested in the SVHS part anyway. I think that $300 CDN is acceptable, but if there was a way to test it, I would recommend that. If you have access to an old small CRT, that would be helpful when you pick it up. It won't tell you if there are weird problems or bad capacitors, or how many more years it has, but at least you can check to make sure a tape plays today. One of my units can sometimes get the tape stuck when ejecting, requiring me to open the hood and carefully removing the tape. And it sometimes gets that way if I FF or RW, so I have taken to using a less old Sony VHS player to FF and RW tapes. And then use the JVC to simply Play and Stop the tape. I think $300 is a reasonable price if you can test to make sure it works. But I know how hard it is source one locally so when you do, it is very exciting and you want to get it.
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  #4  
05-17-2024, 10:42 AM
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Also open it, inspect the insides. As a complete newbie, you don't know what you're looking for. But maybe you can see obvious things you're not looking for (dirty insides, bad grease).

Again, it's gambling.

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  #5  
05-17-2024, 11:11 AM
maups2 maups2 is offline
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Thank you sincerely for the prompt and detailed response. I appreciate the time and effort you took to provide these insights. Your expertise is highly respected, and I'm honored by your response and have taken your advice seriously.

I understand the risks involved with Facebook Marketplace and now, the potential issues with the JVC HR-DVS1U. The 20-year-old car without inspection is a great illustration.

Unfortunately, I drive a 2005 Santa Fe, so I still have a certain inclination towards the setup. I am willing to take my chances on the piece of gear, as it won't set me back too badly, and I do not see myself coming across a player with line TBC for $300 locally in the near or distant future.

I came across the "Missing Help Guides" video on YouTube titled "VHS to digital: best method for analog-to-digital transfers," which suggests I might want to consider an ES-10/15 to complement the setup. This would be to avoid dropped frames. I thought if I monitor it and it begins to drop frames, leading to the AV getting out of sync, I could just stop the capture and restart from where it went off track. To me, the ES-10/15 seems like overkill, given that I have only five family VHS tapes I wish to convert. What are your thoughts on this? Would an ES-10/15 make a significant difference in my situation, or would it be unnecessary for such a small project?

For the capture card, should I consider purchasing a Pinnacle USB from a reputable seller such as yourself instead? I have had thoughts of moonlighting doing conversions for others. Or is the easily obtainable IO-Data card OK.

By the way, you are regarded as quite a legendary figure in that video, and again, I am honored by this interaction with you given your reputation.

Thank you again for your guidance and for helping me to make a more informed choice.

ThumperStrauss, I appreciate your input as well.

-- merged --

Just had a 20min phone call with the seller. They bought it new in the 2000's for about $2000 from the States. They used to shoot weddings and used it to convert. But they haven't used the VHS as much as the DV side. He was adamant on using the firewire out for capture, instead of S-video, which is contrary to what I have seen recommended previous. Curious if anyone has 2 cents on that. S-video vs Firewire capture.
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  #6  
05-17-2024, 07:58 PM
Hushpower Hushpower is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordsmurf
Yes, there are several better cards than GV-USB2.
This'll be good. I have my bag of popcorn open.

The GV-USB2 is as good as the Pinnacle 710-USB (purchased from LS but which no longer works for me on Win 10 or 11; it used to but stopped) and the Hauppauge USB Live2.

Quote:
Curious if anyone has 2 cents on that. S-video vs Firewire capture.
For NTSC, S-Video because of the relatively poor NTSC DV colour sampling standard of 4.1.1.

For PAL, probably S-Video, but depending on who says what and who your friends are, DV at 4.2.2 is a good alternative.
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  #7  
05-17-2024, 11:50 PM
Gary34 Gary34 is offline
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Quote:
This'll be good. I have my bag of popcorn open.

The GV-USB2 is as good as the Pinnacle 710-USB (purchased from LS but which no longer works for me on Win 10 or 11; it used to but stopped) and the Hauppauge USB Live2
That’s your fault. You can’t just keep letting it update then blame it on LS. No one wants to hear about your card this much. It’s on marketplace listings. You messed up. Move on.
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  #8  
05-18-2024, 12:18 AM
Hushpower Hushpower is offline
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Quote:
That’s your fault. You can’t just keep letting it update then blame it on LS. No one wants to hear about your card this much. It’s on marketplace listings. You messed up. Move on.
Seriously? The OP has a Win10 machine. I am merely pointing out that the 710-USB no longer works on my Win 10 (or 11). If you wouldn't want that information before purchase then more fool you.
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  #9  
05-18-2024, 01:23 AM
Gary34 Gary34 is offline
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Quote:
Seriously? The OP has a Win10 machine. I am merely pointing out that the 710-USB no longer works on my Win 10 (or 11).
You are telling people that you should get a refund, going on marketplace listings and complaining about it. It’s like every week. If you left your hardware plugged in while your computer updated that’s a bad idea too. Really there’s a very low rate of people that that card doesn’t work for which LS has stated.
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  #10  
05-18-2024, 05:16 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maups2 View Post
But they haven't used the VHS as much as the DV side.
This is a huge waving red flag.

Quote:
He was adamant on using the firewire out for capture, instead of S-video, which is contrary to what I have seen recommended previous. Curious if anyone has 2 cents on that. S-video vs Firewire capture.
That person simply doesn't know he is talking about. There is almost zero way to get Firewire out from a JVC VCR, aside from really old pre-WinXP software that was buggy then and now.

Also a red flag.

I do my best to warn people. Some are stubborn, do it anyway. A few of those get lucky, but most of them get royally f'd over, lose money. Because, again, you're gambling, not buying. You're putting your trust into a random nobody on Facebook, and it's common knowledge how ignorant and scammy Facebook is.

As much as I know about VCRs, realize that I have never, and will never, buy from Facebook. There is literally no way to "test" these units on-site, even if you put a TV in your car (because that's not a test).

Quote:
Originally Posted by maups2 View Post
Unfortunately, I drive a 2005 Santa Fe, so I still have a certain inclination towards the setup. I am willing to take my chances on the piece of gear, as it won't set me back too badly, and I do not see myself coming across a player with line TBC for $300 locally in the near or distant future.
eBay roulette would be safer here. The "return policy" can be a joke, but at least it's something, and Facebook is literally nothing.

I cannot believe that I'm actually suggesting eBay.

Quote:
I came across the "Missing Help Guides" video on YouTube titled "VHS to digital: best method for analog-to-digital transfers," which suggests I might want to consider an ES-10/15 to complement the setup.
While well meaning, he has wrong info and advice in there. The ES10/15 duplicates the line TBC, and is either inert or conflicts, based on factors. It has a non-TBC frame sync, which does not necessarily prevent dropped frames, and thus audio sync issues. Better would be to get a modded DVK (weaker frame TBC), not an ES10/15.

Quote:
I thought if I monitor it and it begins to drop frames, leading to the AV getting out of sync, I could just stop the capture and restart from where it went off track.
This never works.

Quote:
To me, the ES-10/15 seems like overkill, given that I have only five family VHS tapes I wish to convert. What are your thoughts on this?
Why not just outsource such a small project?

I'm semi-closed right now, but I'd take on a 5-tape project. It will cost you vastly less than the path you're on right now.

Quote:
I have had thoughts of moonlighting doing conversions for others.
If you lack proper equipment, you're in for a world of pain. The "chicken wire and duct tape" method can work for your own small project, but will fail when you encounter the true chaos of VHS from the greater masses. A lot of people have gotten this idea over the years, and all of them eventually quit. The only ones that stick to it are the ones that acquired proper gear to tackle any project.

Quote:
For the capture card, should I consider purchasing a Pinnacle USB from a reputable seller such as yourself instead?
Quality is why the card is suggested. And being quality/suggested is why I sell them in the marketplace.

Quote:
By the way, you are regarded as quite a legendary figure in that video, and again, I am honored by this interaction with you given your reputation.
Thank you again for your guidance and for helping me to make a more informed choice.
Glad to help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hushpower View Post
This'll be good. I have my bag of popcorn open.
I don't want to hijack yet another thread, because your personal preference disagrees with decades of advice. Nor do I have the ability to type much right now. In short, the best cards are most (not all) Theatre-based ATI AIW (XP required), followed by ATI 600 USB and clones (Win7 required) and specific versions of Pinnacle cards.

Some people like to say that I'm just talking my book (ie, that I only suggest cards that I sell). They have it backwards! The reason I sell those cards, is because those are the best and most suggested cards!

If this was just about money, I could easily toss up some Amazon affiliate links for the GV-USB2 and Live2 card. No testing, no refurb'ing, nothing. Just collect Amazon affiliate bucks, no work required. But that's not what I'm about.

I often think the sudden meme-like pandemic resurgence "advice" for the GV-USB2 and Live2 (which are both decade-old cards, and both with mid-production changes) is due to some sucker* reading a fake review online, looking for the "best" cards (Amazon linked, of course!), and then it has been parroted and telephoned gamed online. I could also buy some ads to fake advice, with a page of "top 10" or "best" cards, all with Amazon affiliate links. But again, that's not what I stand for.

* No, you're not that original sucker. But I would suggest you've been telephone gamed.

Quote:
The GV-USB2 is as good as the Pinnacle 710-USB
No, it is not. For example, certain Pinnacle has outstanding resiliency, balanced audio, and clean noise-free image that spans the full image area.

Quote:
(purchased from LS but which no longer works for me on Win 10 or 11; it used to but stopped)
This is unique to you. It's sadly quite common for Win10/11 updates to nuke external hardware. Not just capture cards, but everything from printers to scanners. OS updates have been known to damage hardware since at least the 1980s. I'd have to think about it, but I know I've had updates to software/OS damage hardware in the past 40 years. I vaguely recall an internal CD burner ($500+ back then!) being ruined in the 90s. Shit happens, move on.

Quote:
For PAL, .. DV at 4.2.2 is a good alternative.
PAL is 4:2:0 colorspace compression, not the "uncompressed" 4:2:2 of the source tapes.

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  #11  
05-18-2024, 06:06 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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I edited my above post at least 5 times, so bumping notifications as needed.

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  #12  
05-18-2024, 11:33 AM
maups2 maups2 is offline
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Thank you for the detailed and considerate response.
I will consider my options and keep you posted. Really appreciate it.
Thanks again.
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  #13  
05-18-2024, 04:21 PM
lollo2 lollo2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
I don't want to hijack yet another thread, because your personal preference disagrees with decades of advice. Nor do I have the ability to type much right now. In short, the best cards are most (not all) Theatre-based ATI AIW (XP required), followed by ATI 600 USB and clones (Win7 required) and specific versions of Pinnacle cards.
False. Hauppauge USB-Live 2 and IOData GV-USB2 have in pair or better quality than the ATI AIW and 600 USB cards, and Pinnacle cards. The decades of advice are only from yourself.

Comparisons here:
https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...i-capture.html (VC500 with same video chip as USB-Live 2)
https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...e-devices.html
https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...-pinnacle.html
https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...ture-card.html

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...on-screenshots
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...on-screenshots
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...on-screenshots
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...ods-comparison
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...-Capture-Setup
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  #14  
05-18-2024, 08:53 PM
Gary34 Gary34 is offline
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Quote:
False. Hauppauge USB-Live 2 and IOData GV-USB2 have in pair or better quality than the ATI AIW
I figured you are LS would agree on more since you’re both Smurfs. Anyways I haven’t really heard anyone say that. If you think LS is wrong then why not go somewhere else where they agree with you?
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  #15  
05-18-2024, 10:18 PM
Hushpower Hushpower is offline
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LS, you were being a bit disingenuous when you criticised me:
Quote:
Yes, there are several better cards than GV-USB2. But if you're trying to be cheap, it's the "best" (relative term) of the cheap cards.
but fortunately you clarified that most of your "suggested" cards require an OS which the OP doesn't have.
Quote:
In short, the best cards are most (not all) Theatre-based ATI AIW (XP required), followed by ATI 600 USB and clones (Win7 required) and specific versions of Pinnacle cards.
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  #16  
05-18-2024, 11:40 PM
Gary34 Gary34 is offline
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I don’t see how he was being disingenuous but anyways.

This is what you want to talk about.

Quote:
LS, you were being a bit disingenuous when you criticised me
This is the title of the thread.

Quote:
JVC HR-DVS1U with I-O data GV USB 2
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  #17  
05-19-2024, 02:44 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary34 View Post
I figured you are LS would agree on more since you’re both Smurfs. Anyways I haven’t really heard anyone say that. If you think LS is wrong then why not go somewhere else where they agree with you?
This is lollo2 (aka lollo on Videohelp), and his fake "schtroumpf" is now gone. Having multiple accounts is against site rules -- especially if the accounts were created for trolling.

As much as I respect his knowledge of Avisynth, he's turned into a cheerleader for the GV-USB2, the Hauppauge Live2, and AmaRecTV. It's cult-like behavior when you only respond to posts (and not friendly at that) concerning your "preciouses" (LOTR reference). The cards can apparently do no wrong, and its shit doesn't stink. But I assure you, not all is well in GV/Live2/Ama land. Doesn't all the smell tests.

Quote:
Originally Posted by schtroumpf_lapa View Post
False. Hauppauge USB-Live 2 and IOData GV-USB2 have in pair or better quality than the ATI AIW and 600 USB cards, and Pinnacle cards. The decades of advice are only from yourself.
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hushpower View Post
LS, you were being a bit disingenuous when you criticised me:
I criticized your information, not you personally.

Quote:
but fortunately you clarified that most of your "suggested" cards require an OS which the OP doesn't have.
Yes, that's great and all. But analogy time.

"I want to race!" --- "and I drive a giant pickup truck."
Those two things conflict.
You enter the land of caveats. Race other trucks? Try to strip down the truck to be more like a car? etc

Win10/11 is garbage for capture. It's a current OS for a legacy task (with legacy software, and legacy hardware)

Win10/11 was mostly made for Facebook, Youtube, and screwing around. You're forced to stay online, forced to update (a truly OCD attitude from Microsoft), etc. It's the antithesis of the environment needed for safe quality capturing.

If you insist, you have a few paths. Certain exact Pinnacles can work.

But still, for Win10/11 you need to yank out the LAN cable, disable WiFi. Turn off all the crap that "does stuff" in the background (phone home, snoop, etc). Just note that, with Win10/11, some latter Win8, that can be a challenge.

WinXP, Win7 -- even lousy Windows Vista, early Win8 -- no such roadblocks exist.

This is the simple truth of the matter.

Most people do have older computers in the closet, attic, basement, mom/dad house, etc. Now is the perfect time to pull those out, dust them off, and get to capturing. Consider wiping the boxes with fresh OS install, perhaps upgrade (even if temporary) the SSD/HDD storage. You can later yank the drive, put in the new computer to process/etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary34 View Post
This is the title of the thread.
Forget the title here, read the OP, specifically this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by OP
I am seeking advice if there is a superior capture card that will work with Windows 10 PC.
There is a story we read years ago, back in the 90s.

A man has groin pain, goes to see a quack doctor. Doctor says he needs to be neutered, and needs to locate a surgeon ASAP, or he'll die. The man panics, starts calling around, looking for a surgeon to give him the big snip. "Quick, please help me, my nuts hurt, can you help me cut them off?!" Most hang up, thinking he's just a loon.

One surgeon office gets the call. "Yes sir, please come in to see me."

The surgeon has no intention of doing as requested, but just has to see what this insanity is all about.

Now, the story goes on, and it's not important here.

The end reason for the groin pain? His underwear were too tight. And that surgeon saved him from an insane mistake.

That's how I operate. I don't fill requests. I educate, in the pursuit of the best outcomes.

In this specific case, using Win10 to capture is like chopping off your jewels (ie, probably a painful experience). If you still insist on doing it, I'll at least point you in the right direction (ie, Pinnacle card). Not instruct you to use a rusty knife from the off-duty vet (Easycaps, etc). If you go for alternative non-suggested methods (GV-USB2, whatever), then "good luck to you".

Some people get all entitled pissy mad that I "didn't answer the question", as if I'm obligated to stay in their narrow lane (or answer them at all, for that matter). But the world is not that limited, everything is case by cases, everything is shades of gray, all rules have exceptions. It takes knowledge, experience, and wisdom, to help guide others.

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