Hi group,

Very sad to report that, at the near end of my journey trying to build an XP SP2 capture box (as a Mac user, complete Windows imbecile...I'm trying), I have just found that the ATI All in Wonder 9600 XT (found on leboncoin in France), is missing some cables and appears to be damaged. :depressed:

Missing: everything but the squid cable
Squid cable: looked ok until I installed and saw weird fragments on screen. I unplugged the cable and saw that one of the pins appears to be missing and stuck inside the card. The seller told me this was like this from the manufacturer (which it may be for all i know. Seemed a strange coincidence.

The card is still powering the VGA monitor, with little ugly artefacts everywhere. I was thinking maybe I can extract the stuck pin and replace the cable, but I am afraid that things won't be suitable for my capture project given its state. I was also unsure if the S-video connector attached to the squid cable was the s-video used for video input or if it was the breakout box (which was missing).

I was hoping someone with a lot more experience with these cards, admin or lordsmurf perhaps, could advise on where or not I should try and salvage this situation or if it is better to just return the card and try again? Or maybe this fragment / artefact issue comes from the incorrect driver? I used the 180-V01036-100 disc.

-- merged --

All that and I forgot my manners! My apologies – happy new year to all! :)

-- merged --

Hi again,

Day three on this now and I kind of think now I wish I could delete this post to not look more stupid.
After lots of driver hunting and several reinstalls of the card, I am starting to think that perhaps the card I have may not be one that was recommended.

What I have:
ATI All in Wonder 9600 XT Sapphire PN 102A0901000 - it is AGP with the Theatre 200 chipset, but I have recently noticed there are several versions of the All in Wonder 9600 XT (I thought it was just the one).

The one I have doesn't *appear* to have inputs for capture. It has the squid cable, which has an S-Video cable on it of course, and some TV and FM inputs, but no Mini DIN, unlike the other version.

Did I screw up my purchase?
I've attached pics of the version I have:

Short answer: no, I don't think this is the card you want. I do not remember but others might - I think this card might have fallen more into their "TV Wonder" line (though ATI was admittedly fond of confusingly reusing their product names and codes on dissimilar products), which would pick up analog TV from an antenna or cable, but skipped the video inputs? Other than that the squid/horsetail/etc should not have a pin broken off and stuck in the card, I'm fairly confident of that, but I have never owned this card and will leave confirmation to others.

Opinions vary about this, but for the very careful shopper I personally would aim for an All-In-Wonder 9000 if I wanted to stay in XP/AGP land and had to buy a new card tomorrow. All you then need is the purple ingest cable (still somewhat common), and if you can patch the audio directly from the 4-pin connector on the board to your audio card, even better - though the audio breakout cable for that card is uncommon, but not terribly rare. DVI port built right into the back of the card for your monitor, no squid needed.

Careful shopping is absolutely key, you're going to have to up your game on that end a little bit. With some very deliberate and vigilant browsing a good AIW 9000 can still be had for a reasonable price. Forget the remote and all the stuff that comes with a complete box, it is all useless for capture except the proprietary purple ingest cable.

Or, if you want to move up a little into a USB device and known-good condition, I believe our host still has a few kicking around.

The problem with that specific card is the cables are often not included. I've often thought about just tacking on an S-Video input to the appropriate corresponding pins on that proprietary connector, but the issue then is that you'd have to do the same for your display connector as most motherboards aren't going to allow the use of two graphics cards, so what would have been just soldering 3-4 wires (Ground, Luma, and Chroma, and maybe composite) becomes a lot more. Probably wouldn't be impossible to 3D print a pin holder to mate up to it. but again, that's a lot of work.

Agree that the 9000 AGP variant is probably the lowest priced and relatively easy to find, but the 9200 has fewer SMT capacitors which can potentially be points of failure if you can find one. I just recap all of mine, but there's lots of potential to harm the card if you don't have much experience doing that.

I do think that card is an AIW even though it does not have the more common mini-din connector for the inputs. As aramkolt has implied, that brown header is very likely the video and audio inputs for the card. Most of the PCIe AIWs have similar headers in addition to their more normally used “silver stab” dongle connections on the backplate.

Here’s a discussion of the I/O connectors on the PCIe cards. Posts #27 and #39 are particularly relevant.
https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...-x800xt-2.html

Also useful could be the following:
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/42...o-Adapter.html

Note that the s-video and audio connector on your squid dongle are outputs, not inputs. Also interesting is the location of your cards header vs the more typical mini-din for the inputs.

In summary, if you have time (return window?) I think I’d further evaluate the squid connection for monitor output. Maybe one of the two VGA connectors works OK. If you can’t get a monitor to work reliably, the card and dongle are definitely a no go. If that much works, then I’d progress to seeing if you can get AIW drivers installed and working to prove it is an AIW. If drivers work then you could progress to a test of the header connections. You could cobble a composite connection (just 2 pins) and see if a video signal can be input, seen and even captured. For s-video of course you’d need to connect 4 pins. You don’t need to connect the audio to the AIW at all, just route it directly to the line-in on the sound card.

Obviously, that’s a bit of work and work arounds just to maybe salvage it.
Finding a 9000 or 9200 could well be easier.

My 2cents
BW

One other note: the squid dongle has one unused pin “location”. That is, there is a space where a pin could be but by design, there isn’t one there, nor is there a socket for the pin to go into on the card/female side. Is this what you are seeing or do you actually see a broken pin? Maybe post a picture of the squid cable connector just to confirm…

I believe that, on the AIW 9600, and non-AIW 9600, the proprietary cable connector is the same, but the cables vastly differ. It's now been many years since I saw both.

The problem with the 9600 is that the graphics output is VGA anyway. If you're making an AGP AIW build, then you're better off getting a card with direct DVI on the board. Don't focus too much on Theatre200 (9000s) vs Theatre100/Rage (7000s). That mostly mattered for the Ligos MPEG encoding*, not for the AVI lossless.

* Even I don't capture MPEG all that much anymore, as I can buy a 22tb HDD for ~$350 now. It's not 2005 anymore, where we still measured drive by tens/10s of GB (60gb, 80gb, etc). We now have thousands/1,000s of GBs (TB).

First off, thank you all for the replies, they're very much appreciated.

Yes, I have since confirmed the pin layout (attached a diagram I found) and indeed, this pin was not broken, but just never there. I was mistaken, hastily assumed in my attempt to find an explanation for the artefacts I was getting on screen.

I bought a Terratec SiXPack 5.1 which has that Crystal CS4630 chip that the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz has (hoping this will be for audio). I have read here and had confirmed via a test last night from someone who has both the purple box and the domino box with the purple cable that these video-input breakouts with the purple cables are interchangeable. This is now my third attempt at buying a card...the first was a beautiful, nearly new AIW X800XL with all the accessories (including the domino box). I am hoping that should suffice on the next round! Once finished, this X800XL will probably find its way to the marketplace here. Im gutting...i have no PCI-e slots in the XP machine I bought.

Understatement of the year, that! I am slowly learning though, thank you all.

It is very odd as installing the card, the system seems to recognise two pieces of hardware, one graphics card and one video capture card, but as suggested, the panel has a strange layout that doesn't suggest that. Just a proprietary squid cable connect, and FM connector and a TV Tuner connector. It came with the squid connector, but any kind of soldering and or 3D printing would have me in tears I am sure. I botch the easiest jobs – it will be way easier to just find a different card I reckon.

I wasn't able to find the manual for this specific Sapphire version of the card –*the manual you linked in above seems to focus on the one I wish I had, with the video in port. I was wondering if the S-video connector on the squid cable on mine might be an input with the VGA an output, but worried also about the artefacts and where or not that would affect the capture quality.

Interesting! I am so curious to know why the system is recognising as a capture card given this. I don't know where capture would be possible if these were all inputs (except maybe if the TV input had a breakout box to add this?

Sadly, I did try this to no avail. Both VGA monitor outputs in the squid cable produced the same artefacts. I installed my old junky graphics card again and the artefacts disappeared.
Thank you –*that sounds pretty definitive! I have packed the card up to ship it back.

I am on the hunt again. I have a family member visiting me from the US next month, so may have her mule it over to me in France, but hopefully I can find something on this side of the world sooner. The cards seem to be mostly over there. I have NTSC tapes to capture here, which initially frightened me, but I have read on the forum that the cards are OK capturing both by switching some settings in VirtualDub? I have a Sony EV-S9000E to play them (which I read also plays NTSC just fine). A lot of variables to consider.

I have posted pictures of everything for reference to make it all clearer. Upon inspection of that S-Video cable, I can definitely see the arrow as output.

Thank you all so much for the notes and advice.

This may also be pertinent info, something I posted in another ATI thread tonight:

The 9600 squid accepts the purple/domino dongle, the VGA output, and "other stuff" (not used, not important). I have one last working 9600 card. If/when it fails, I'm done with AGP AIW (moving "backwards" to PCI AIW and newer system hardware). That card has/had some amazing MPEG capture ability, with multiple monitors, back when I cared about that sort of thing (before ultrawide monitors, before large HDDs for lossless storage).

Ah, interesting. I have the AIW 9600 Pro on a shelf (breakout cable is in someone else's basement at the moment, long story) which has the separate jack for the ingest cable on the back of the card. The "squid" on that one is all outputs from what I recall. But, being able to connect the ingest cable to the squid on the 9600 XT being discussed makes a lot more sense considering it falls under the AIW banner.

Edited to add: looked at the OP's pictures of their squid and am wondering if this comment from above is actually more the case on this particular card: "that brown header is very likely the video and audio inputs for the card".

Anyway, the 9600 Pro I bought new waaay back, but the small stockpile of happy 9000s I have all came from online used purchase. Risky indeed, but still able to pay off. Sometimes.

Ahh ok, this is very interesting. I was just buying based on info in the threads I have read, but really I am only interested in lossless AVI. I have the X800XL but that is PCI-e and I have read on around here that those can be a bit less than ideal.

Which cards are the best bet right now for a lossless AVI setup?

@ the OP: As I said, if you cannot get a good VGA signal out of either VGA1 or VGA2 of the output "squid" I think this card/squid combo is not worth pursuing. The squid might be worth keeping if you REALLY want to get an AIW 9600 for some reason. At least on this side of the pond, they are much more available without the squid. This of course actually makes them completely non-functional (no display output at all...).

Someone like aramkolt might be bold enough to try to resurrect that card by replacing all the caps, but for most of us mere mortals, that would be a non-starter. :D

But on to the discussion of the particulars of your oddball Sapphire AIW (I believe) card, for posterity I guess :hmm:

In addition to the discussion of brown I/O headers I linked earlier which was focused on finding ways around missing I/O (Silver Stab) dongles/squids for PCIe cards, there is other documentation of the brown internal headers as used on both AIW 9600 and 9000 "Pro" cards as shown in the images I've added below. So I think they are likely a viable way to get the video input into the card. Again I'd simply bypass the AIW and input the audio directly to the sound card.

As far as the "squid" connectors on AIW 9600's, all of the documentation I can find indicates that every connection on these is an output. There are no inputs, and AFAIK, there is no 8 pin din connector for the purple dongle which would be for inputs as on most all AIWs. The Silver Stab dongle/squids DO include the these 8 pin din connectors for A/V input.

So I believe LS is mixing up the Silver Stab "dongle/squids" with the 9600 multi-output "squid" when he states:
Attached images regarding the brown, 8 pin internal input headers. The first is from page 50 of the AIW 9600 manual I linked in my earlier post. The second is from the post #39 of that other long thread I linked where jwillis84 dug it up in a manual for AIW 9000 Pro.
Sooooo my speculation is that Sapphire decided to cut costs on their card and include only the internal header for inputs, possibly assuming that the vast majority of users would use the card mostly for DVR type purposes. I know that's how I used my original AIW 7200 circa 2002. I never tried to use the video inputs until I decided to try to digitize my home videos a few years ago :smack::depressed:

Interestingly, I've never seen any discussion of an internal I/O connection to attach to these internal headers discussed in any AIW manual. You'd think that they would be listed somewhere in one of the manuals as "available via special order from ATI" or something. Odd, very odd...

BW

-- merged --

On to the subject of PCIe AIW's:

I've never quite understood the dislike of these cards at least in terms of their technical capability to capture lossless AVI. The only complaint I've heard (and experienced with my X1800XL) is the offset of the image in the capture. For me, since I'm going to have to mask the bottom head switching noise anyway, I don't see this as a problem since I can center the image in the same process.

I know forum member keaton uses a X600 PCIe card and seems very pleased with his results.

That said there are practical issues with these cards, the biggest being finding the correct Silver Stab I/O squid/dongles. Thus the long thread about workarounds like using the brown headers I linked earlier. The other complaints are mostly about the cards running hot and/or needing auxiliary power connections or the cards being heavy (I can confirm that for my 1800). Note that AGP AIW 9700 and 9800 cards also need aux power connections and run a bit hotter than would be desired.

But for me in the peanut gallery, I think the advantages of the PCIe cards are undersold. They still require Windows XP to work for capture, but they can be used on much newer, faster (including SATA 2 or 3 HD compatibility) and I'd think more available motherboards (or complete DELL.HP, etc. systems). IF (a big one!!!) you can find an working PCIe AIW WITH the proper dongle, I think it would be worth trying.

Maybe keaton (or others using PCIe AIW's) can chime in if he finds this thread.

BW

Good heavens, ATI really liked to play with the names. So... the regular AIW 9000 has the ingest cable port on the back, while the 9000 "Pro" has the brown internal header. The 9600 XT has the brown internal header, while the 9600 "Pro" also has an ingest cable port at the back. I bet there's some reason that makes sense, but I'm still searching...

Edited to add: depending how much you paid for the card/cable set, the squid/horsetail/breakout might be worth flipping if your seller kicks and screams about taking a return. Working breakouts for these cards are beyond scarce.

I don't think it's even that simple. I think there were just a lot of different configurations. Most AGP cards came without the internal header but for some markets or resalers, apparently things were "optional". Product naming schemes are always opaque at best and just crazy at times. What's a "Pro" this year is an "SE" next! It's all just a marketing thing. :rolleyes:

I've never seen an AGP card with the header until the Sapphire one we're discussing here. I have an AIW 9000 "Pro" that does not have the header. I'll have to check to see if it has the pads to add a header. That said, per the manuals referenced, it appears that ATI made cards with them or made the option to include them more widely. Sapphire ran with it.

Yet, AFIK, the headers are ubiquitous on the PCIe cards.

BW

Noted and thank you. I have initiated a return of the card to the seller (he has been kind through this whole thing).

No I think I will let the 9600 idea go. It wasn't so much that I was married to that particular card, I was just so baffled as to why it was meant to be the All in Wonder version and didn't seem to have, to my eyes, the ability to capture. Regarding a card, I really just need to find something else that will accomplish my goal of lossless capture.

On this I may actually reach out to Sapphire about it to see if they can tell me anything (even though it's going back to the seller). Will report back if I find anything. I can't seem to find info on this model anywhere online.

I'm not sure what you mean about the offset of the image in the capture, i will hunt for some threads discussing this here. Is this not something that happens with the PCI and AGP cards?

My limitation at this stage is the machine I have. I bought a machine with AGP and PCI slots as I was under the impression that AGP was the best direction of travel for capturing. I then bought a card (see images) for this machine (my first attempt, the X800XL), where the seller told me it was AGP. It arrived with all the parts in great nick, but alas, as a PCIe, so I can't use it.

So far it sounds like, for lossless capture on this PC I bought, the AIW 9000 or AIW 9200 are the preferred AGP cards. Is this right? Are there better, more trustworthy PCI AIW cards I should try and source instead?

On the topic of the cable, I have attached an image of the bits that came with the ATI AIW X800XL PCIe card for reference (for anyone following this thread in the future).

As far as the image offset goes, yes, all of the PCIe cards offset the image portion of the capture a few pixels to the left. In most 720 x X(480-NTSC or 576-PAL) captures, there is a black border on each side, a few pixels wide. Ideally these borders should be equal, but on the PCIe cards the left is smaller, just a couple pixels while the right is that same couple pixels. If I understand correctly, a perfect capture should have 8 pixel borders on each side for 704 actual image pixels per line. What you get from each capture device will vary, and it also likely depends on your tape (how it was recorded vs. perfection) playback device, passthrough device(s) and capture device.

For reference, I've attached 2 "snapshots" from VLC of ~the same frame of the analog output of a DV camcorder video with no passthrough devices. Its interesting to note that there is no head switching noise and no border on the left. Both are 720 x 480 images (not 4:3 with square pixels) captured in Vdub using HuffYUV. One was captured via an AIW 9600 (AGP) using drivers from MMC 8.8 (no borders at all) and the other via an AIW XL 1800XL (PCIe) using drivers from MMC 9.14 (no left, wide right borders). If you look carefully, you can see that the actual image has been stretched beyond 720 pixels wide and is cropped off on the right in the AIW9600 capture. The left sides are about the same with ~ no border. I believe I have captures with the same 9600 which are not so stretched (if at all) using drivers from MMC8.7 But I don't have images from the same source so I'm not including them. So as LS says often: drivers matter.:salute:

So which is the better capture? You be the judge...

Again I refer you to keaton's comments in post #4 of the thread I linked earlier.

For AGP cards, yes, I think that 9000 and 9200 series cards are likely the least problematic today, each being relatively cool running and requiring only the purple AIW input cable. All 9600s will need the big squid cable (which yours had but most don't) plus the purple input cable. Yours seems to have been a real outlier not having the backplane input connector for the purple cable. 9700s and 9800s are more power hungry (noisier and hotter) and some MAY have an issue with poor board layout the induces noise in the image.

Lastly, I believe your X800XL is complete from what I can see. Its different than what we see over here for NTSC so our "silver stab" connectors are different with multiple outputs connections in lieu of the SCART connector. What's critical for capture that it has the purple 8 pin connector for the the purple (or domino with purple plug) cable for inputs.

BW

Hi BW37, thanks for the screengrabs –I had no idea that these little nuances existed! I have read here before that drivers matter, but it's nice to see why!

I supposed at the stage I am at, if the worst thing I have is a little border on my capture, I will be perfectly happy. To date, I haven't actually even got anything working properly, installation wise.

I took the advice given, ended up returning the Sapphire card to the seller (Sapphire support did come back to me with a link to an AMD driver, but no manual). I have since purchased an ATI AIW 9000 AGP card as suggested - This version specifically, which I hope is correct.

The card is now in my machine and since the legacy drivers were still up on AMD's site (albeit for the 9000 pro), I decided to start there. Whatever it is I did, perhaps using those drivers instead of the ones on the forum or perhaps legacy remnants that remained in the system after trying to get the sapphire card to work (despite my uninstalls), was something that Windows XP really didn't like.

At first things seemed to be going well: the drivers installed; the display had no artefacts, the resolution looked normal and everything was going great. I got to a point where all display drivers seemed to be installed and working (again, from the AMD download) but none of the other functionality e.g. ATI WDM Rage Theatre audio etc, were working. VirtualDub also wasn't recognising the source of neither the ATI AIW card nor the Terratec SixPack 5.1 soundcard, but I put that to one side.

I thought maybe I had done something wrong with the installation procedure, so retraced my steps.
Initially I hadn't installed MMC because I planned on using VDub for capturing AVIs, but then recalled the capture drivers were in the "TV" install on MMC, so first I tried to install the MMC 9.x that came from the AMD downloads page. That fixed all drivers except the ATI WDM Rage Theatre Video. So then I tried MMC 8.7 which I downloaded from this forum; after that I restarted and everything went downhill.

The machine froze on start up. I tried booting into safe mode, it froze. I couldn't do anything, really. I had to reset the BIOS by removing the battery, removed and reinstalled all RAM and cards as a precaution, then tried again. I finally got it up in safe mode, used the ATI uninstaller, and that returned me to the same place, where safe mode was struggling, the computer wouldn't boot etc.

I gave up in frustration, left it for the weekend, then last night tried again. Bizarrely, the system started up normally. I was able to uninstall all the ATI bits using the add/remove programs uninstallers. I then went into the registry and removed any and all remnants relating to ATI / Catalyst / DAO. I finally restarted, reset the BIOS settings (clock, etc), and now it feels perhaps like I am back to where I was before this journey began.

Only thing is now I feel a bit paralysed to move forward without advice. I have read so many threads in here I am no longer sure I am straight on what needs to be done and moreover that I have seen first hand how difficult it is to remove ATI related bits from the system, it feels a bit threatening!

I created a restore point before installing MMC 8.7, but couldn't seem to even get there when booting, so not sure if I should be doing that again? Is there a recommended approach to insuring I don't have do deal with all that again or is it just "if something is broke, start fresh immediately with a new installation of Windows XP"?

Can anyone advise on the correct procedure and installation elements for the ATI AIW Radeon 9000 64? I have seen and download many of the files in the sticky threads here, but am unsure which if any is what I should be using.

As always, I am very appreciative, thank you all for the help.

If it were me - and I'm not saying I have the right answer - but if it were me and I had tried to install one ATI card and gave up in favor of another, I would immediately wipe the system drive and reinstall the OS from scratch. Might seem a bit rash, but the ATI drivers/software were a bit notorious for leaving little bits and pieces behind, even after uninstall tools. The machine I use now does capture and nothing else, so starting 100% over isn't terribly burdensome.

Again - I'm not saying its the best way, but it might be a path of least resistance if your system drive doesn't have too much other stuff that you would need to reinstall.

For installers, your mileage may vary, but I keep this one handy to keep my 9000s alive: https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...html#post14940

I don't remember all the details, but I think later installers started to create problems. Stick with the recommendations in the above thread.

Don't forget DirectX!

@rickface: 7jlong is not wrong, starting from a "clean install" is always best if you can manage it. ATI drivers and "puff" can get pretty snarled up in the system files and registry and getting them all out is difficult. That said there are come old ATI cleaners that might work at least to try before a clean install.

I've done a little digging into my previous AIW experimentation which was interrupted about 4 years ago for a move. Still trying to settle in. :smack: One thing I did was to use my old Acronis backup software to create full backups of my various attempts. Most important was to create a good backup of a working "base" install to work from whenever things blew up (or just to try a new set of drivers without worrying about cleaning out the old ones. I've looked over the notes I made to help identify those backups. Most of my testing was with either an AIW 9600 or an AIW 9700 Pro, but I think the same things will apply for you.

First, the drivers installed automatically Windows XP Pro with SP2 seemed to work just fine. In fact as best I could tell these were the same drivers recommended above by 7jlong (and others). So in spite of sanlyn's recommendations, I would try things by letting Windows install its preferred drivers.

The ATI drivers as installed automatically by my WinXP Pro SP2:
Display Driver: 6.14.10.6462
WDM Driver: 6.14.10.6238

Windows will not install any "Catalyst" components, just the basic drivers. If you want to install those or MMC 8.8, you will need to do so from the 180-V01084-100 iso you can reassemble from the rar's.

At minimum, you will also need to install DirectX 9. The last version was 9C. The version included with the above iso is 9A and is probably fine.

I believe that with just the above, you should be able to run and capture with vDub. the order I would try installing things would be:
1. Display driver only (abort automatic install of WDM driver)
2. DirectX 9A (Start the ATI catalyst set-up and install only DX9A?)
3. Reboot
4. WDM driver (should install automatically if you let Windows do it.

Alternatively, you could abort all automatic Windows drivers installations and let the catalyst installer install what YOU want it to. Start with only the above and see if you can get vDub to work. If the catalyst installer wants to install a .NET version, let it do so. (See below)

Note: I also found that I'd installed .NET 2.0 as downloaded from MS. To install it you need to first install an "installer" from MS. These might be needed for MMC 8.8 or something, I'm not quite sure. You could try things without this first to see.

Hope this works for you! :D
BW

PS: I have installation files for all of the above, DX 9C, NET 2.0, etc. but I cannot upload/attach them here because they are all .exe files. I also found that you can no longer download DirectX 9C from MS. I'm not sure about the others. If someone has a suggestion as to how these could be made available her, let me know.

Yes, I noticed as I went through deleting any and all keys I could find. I would have just skipped straight to a fresh install of XP (I have the disc), but as you mention below, it was because I had to find and install all the other bits (XP SP2 distributable 2005 and 2010 updates, Net2, DirectX9c) to get XP functioning and installing in the modern world. Took me at least a day and I didn't do well organising the downloaded installers after. Next time I will!

Will try this now! Thanks for the link!

This sounds very wise. I thought that was what I did with the snapshot I created in Windows before installing MMC 8.7, but that didn't work when the system blew up. Is it this one you used? Would you just create and burn an ISO or? (Sorry, I am barely Windows literate). Is this the Acronis software you used?


Just to clarify, these would be the drivers that Windows installs when you start up the system and it detect new hardware, is that right? And just to ensure I am not making bad assumptions, the Display drivers are (obvs) for the monitor and the WDM are for capturing? If that is correct, then I wanted to ask, in relation to the driver conversation we had earlier (drivers from MMC 8.8 vs 9.14), where do these fit into the mix? Is that what you meant about restoring to a point with the backup software before installing the drivers so you could use different ones, or is it possible to have multiple drivers on the system and choose which to use for capture?

Downloaded and assembled :salute:

Sorry for all my questions –*re: the above*–
1. This is the windows version of the display driver it attempts to install on startup, right?
2. I installed DirectX 9C for use with another catalyst, so I should be good there
3. √
4. And this will be one that will be the deal for capture?

Same! I think this was amongst the first things I had to do in order to get the MyPal browser working on the system so I could visit websites. IE didnt work.

Thanks a million for the help. I will report back :thumb:


I am sure this would be really useful, it took me a while to find versions of these. Microsoft has taken most off their site now. Maybe a new sticky post –*"Setting up your XP box"

At an event now. Will reply later.:)

Cheers :beer:

Update on the ATI spring-clean – sadly, that ATI cleaner linked is only for Windows 7+, so didn't work for my old XP box.

I think I did what I could with the fragments / registry already, though, hopefully I discarded anything that will conflict. I will await your advice before attempting the next driver installation, knowing that if I fail, i reckon it's going to be back to square one with a fresh XP instal!

@rickface: Back to reply as best I can...

1. Not sure if you are accessing the internet with your XP box. If so, XP hasn't been updated for security for many years and is highly susceptible to virus's, etc. so most of us never let it near today's internet. Of course this makes it much more difficult to get all of the updates, etc. than it once was. Today, safely, little to nothing can be left to update automatically, thus the need to hoard and understand the old update exe's, etc. Also, it seems, MS has dropped quite a bit of support in just the last 4 years since I was actively dealing with this. AMD might do the same for the last of the AIW drivers as well... If this is all old news, I apologize. :o

Onwards...

2. On the ATI cleaners: At least one, AtiCimUn, is included with in the "install" directory of the 180-V01084-100 iso we've been discussing above though it is an earlier, 2003 version rather than the 2006 version I have. I thought the other, 2013 AMD cleaner also worked on XP but I may have never tried it. Lastly, I think it was recommended protocol to run the AtiCimUn cleaner multiple times, possible even in safe mode to get the best "cleaning" of old ATI junk. YMMV.

3. Acronis back-up software: I use version 10 for my XP back-ups (only for AIW stuff at this point I guess). I don't think it works on 64 bit OS's so I had to update to 15 or something later for Win 7-64 and beyond. For me, V10 was much cleaner and easier for me to understand what the heck I/it was doing so I continue to use it where I can. Can't teach this old dog too many new tricks I guess...

Acronis can do lots of things, from cloning complete systems to just backing up parts or files or whatever. Cloning a complete, working "system" is handy so you can get back to that state fairly easily. This will include the hidden stuff that is on the disk to initiate booting up the system. You will need some kind of external drive to store the back-up files on and you will also likely need to create some "recovery media" (like a burned CD or DVD) from which you can boot and recover from if it all goes to *&^$ on you. It will take a bit of learning and practice to figure out what works best for you.

4. Display drivers, WMD drivers, MMC, catalyst control, etc.: As you state, the display drivers are self explanatory, the rest not so much.

WMD drivers are indeed the special drivers required for capture, etc. They will only install after the display drivers are up and running and only if they are a correct match for the hardware AND the installed display drivers. The correct display drivers and properly installed WMD drivers are the ONLY things required for video capture using vDub. No need for MMC or any other Catalyst clutter (or functionality). You will of course also need the correct drivers for sound and wiring for both video and sound (purple dongles, etc.).

MMC is/was ATI's proprietary "multimedia" software which included control of the AIW tuner and capture from same (DVR functionality). It also included external video/audio capture "modes" which can be used similarly to vDub. These offer a choice of uncompressed video (avi) or compressed (mpeg ) video. There is no way to capture using HuffYUV, etc. Back in the day, the mpeg capture was quite useful since it saved on (then) precious HD space and offered decent playback quality. MMC includes a lot of other "stuffing" that is totally useless today. If you do want to try it out, I believe only the "TV" module needs to be installed to access the various capture options. The rest is just clutter.

IIRC, Catalyst is/was ATI's name for their "integrated" driver installation packages. Theoretically, installing the Catalyst Control Center will give you "more" control of the display than Windows alone. It does give you some extra information about the currently installed drivers, etc. (display drivers only I think). It is not "needed" for most use cases today and is more stuff to remove later if nec. but it alone is not that bad...

This portion of the overlong ATI hacks thread might be useful in understanding what to install IF you want to try out MMC or the Catalyst stuff. Note that this info is old and some of the posters are still interested in the DVR stuff. Start small and work up to adding things rather than the other wasy around...

BW

It's very much appreciated, thanks!

Ahh good to know. Noted. I have been using it very sparingly as most websites don't work anyhow.

Yes, I read this in one of the threads. Noted and done √

Doesn't look like they sell this version anymore and installing it requires a serial, so I guess I am going to have to brave it!

Really appreciate the explanation. I have decided to stick with the official drivers to worry less, but the wording for the custom install on disc 180-V01084-100 is slightly different (listed below). Am I correct in assuming what I have mapped is correct (also pictured)?

1. HYDRAVISION Complete Edition
2. HYDRAVISION Basic Edition
3. Multimedia Drivers ---> WMD Drivers (to be installed second, then restart, test VirtualDub)
4. DVD Decoder
5. Unified Component Install ---> Display Drivers (to be installed first, then restart)
6. Multimedia Center 8.x - deciding not to instal this as I will just use VirtualDub
7. AuthorScript
8. ATI Remote Wonder

I was recalling that the "TV" driver within MMC was crucial, but equally that the 8.7 driver was the one I should be trying to use (and also what cause my issues last round). How can I safely get those in the system for use by Virtual Dub?

Sound drivers are working in the system just fine, but wiring baffles me a bit. I was assuming I would just need to map the video and audio from the player to the respective card on the PC and choose the source input in VirtualDub, but then I started reading some kind of "loop" set up with the purple box (though haven't been able to locate images of that, only of Admin's internal 4-pin jumper version).

I’m not sure I understand exactly what you’re trying to do with drivers and MMC. I believe either MMC 8.7 or 8.8 should work with your card so do whatever is easier. Again, you don’t need MMC to use vDub.

If you aren’t already using them, “Device Manager” and “Add or Remove Programs” are useful tools for understanding what you have installed and what’s working on your system. “Msconfig” is also a useful tool to see what’s running on your system and (maybe later) turn some useless stuff off if needed to make your system run smoother. Web searches should give you what you need on how to access and use these in WinXP.

RE Audio connections:

For you, I’d strongly suggest you route the audio from your playback device directly to the line-in (usually blue) connector on your sound card. You’ll need the appropriate cable to do so, most likely, left and right male rca connectors to a male 1/8” (3mm) stereo connector. Get a quality cable long enough to reach the sound card from your playback devices. You don’t need to go all audiophile bonkers :smack:. Poor cable routing and quality can cause audio noise.

You can route the audio input via the purple AIW input dongle but then you’ll need another kind of oddball cable, either an internal 3 wire cable to run from the AIW to the sound card OR the black AIW output “squid” with which you can connect its black 1/8” stereo output to the blue line-in of your sound card. Here’s a thread discussing the options which include links to other discussions with pics, etc.

https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...each-es10.html

BW

I believe "TV" was referenced as needing to be an installed component of MMC if you wish to capture video using that software, but I do not believe leaving it out of the installation list impacts capture if you instead choose to use VirtualDub or another app besides an ATI-provided one.

Personally, I install MMC and TV because they are occasionally fun to open and get nostalgic about, but I haven't used it for a capture since the early 00s. I stay more or less exclusively in VirtualDub these days for capture tasks.

For audio, I would encourage the internal wiring - you are looking for a MPC-4 internal audio cable, which can still be had inexpensively with relative ease. This is what I mentioned above: you can patch it internally, or you can procure the dedicated audio "squid" to run out of the AIW and into your sound card, or you can bypass the AIW entirely and plug your VCR's audio straight into the audio card as suggested above.

I have not tried the last method - I realize the AIW functions as little more than a passthrough for the audio and does no processing, but I do wonder about timing issues. So I stick with the internal cabling - it's generally cheaper than a used audio breakout, and very easy to install.

I think it's maybe just my confusion. I would avoid MMC entirely really, my end goal is capturing lossless with VirtualDub in the best possible way I can. I thought that it was necessary to instal MMC as I thought there were important components within it needed.

I guess I have read so many times "drivers from 8.7 or 8.8" that perhaps that was my bad assumption. I know you have said MMC is not necessary and that the WMD drivers are the only one necessary for capture, but then the screenshots with the cropped vs the bordered capture made me think perhaps it's not about MMC, but perhaps the "TV" drivers hidden within (like maybe those were necessary).


Thanks for the explanation! It's a big help and nice to be able to reference those posts. I struggle to find (and refind) posts here sometimes, I often search google with site:digitalfaq.com to surface bits instead.

Ahh I see. So when I read references of driver 8.7, etc, that's just in relation to using MMC for mpeg capture?

This direct connection felt like the only straightforward way to do this in my head, not having details of the inputs and outputs, but I too worried a little about sync. I was hoping VirtualDub would handle this. I will test and report back. In the meantime, I will try and see if I can figure out what they call an MPC-4 in french :hmm:

By way of an update:
- I tried to install the Multimedia Drivers then "Unified Component Install" from disc 180-V01084-100; no dice
- I then tried to install MMC 8.7 (from the forum), still nothing. The drivers were throwing errors, unrecognised.
- I uninstalled the drivers using hardware manager, restarted, the drivers couldn't be found.
- finally, I gave up, reinstalled XP (which took ages too...whatever I did, it didn't like)
- The fresh start was with the ATI AIW 9000 card from the start, so it should be cleaner than the last install where I tried 2 different cards and had one in the machine before.
- I am now looking into Macrium Reflect (similar to the Acronis Backup software) to create a clean point to return to before trying again.

I think I may try the 180-V01084-100 disc again after I get the system back to speed (Visual C++ 2005, 2010, my audio card drivers, DirectX 9c, Windows Installer updater, etc). Bit scared...

I use Macrium Reflect for my newer systems. They’re changing their business model though and I believe they won’t be offering the free version anymore. If it still works for XP, it’s good stuff…

Establishing a good back-up strategy will make things easier for sure.

I don’t believe there is any audio delay issue with bypassing the AIW audio input path. LS is now recommending it over the other options. Older recommendations were different.

Last thoughts on your clean install. I think you should EITHER let Windows install its preferred display and WMD drivers and then try vDub OR refuse Windows attempt to install display drivers and then try to install display and WMD from your MMC 8.7 or 8.8 disc. This requires you to stay with the generic VGA drivers your clean install will first boot with. I believe you can increase the screen resolution to make things easier to see.

Good luck! I admire your ambition to learn WinXP as a Mac user!

BW

Sorry for the delay coming back, I had a whole avalanche of weird issues old PC issues that I had solve on this computer after having bricked the CD drive. I'm not trusting 100% in the motherboard, but I have run ram tests and everything checks out, so perhaps it's just a touchy old machine.

In any case, I finally found and fit a new CD/DVDR drive, and, at long last and with the help of Hiren's Boot CD, was able to create a backup(!) using the Macrium (which is included on the disc) and boot from MiniXP on Hiren's. AOMEI failed so many times I gave up, but alas, it feels like I at least have a safe "undo" now, in case something goes wrong with the next round of driver installations.

Now, I know I have read this over and over on the forum, but as the dates are so old now, I just wanted to be triple sure on what and which version I should install to get my ATI AIW Radeon 9000 up and running.

The goal is the same, just lossless AVI capture with vDub, so no need to install MMC and go that route.

The auto-installed Windows drivers are working for the display (Windows didn't explicitly let me say no to this, i think it needed to install them to start the system with a new card), but even with that, I would imagine the ATI ones (provided they are correct) will probably be better? Maybe not, but outside that, I haven't touched the other drivers (for video capture etc), which are all detected :warning: next to them.

Can anyone advise on the correct version and bits to install? I feel like I have asked this, but after the last nightmare I had, I just want to be sure.

I have seen this on the AMD site, relating to the ATI All-in-Wonder 9000 Pro, but i am not sure mine is the Pro, it's the Radeon. The above link includes:

• Catalyst 6.11
  • Display Driver
  • Catalyst Control Center
  • WDM Drivers
• DAO/MDAC
  • Windows Media Encoder 9
  • DAO/MDAC
  • TitanTV components
• Encoder Package 6.6
  • Encoder
    Parental Control
  • Visual C++ Patch
  • Avivo Video Converter (will only work with X1000 series products)
• MMC 9.14
• Various Language packs

Then I found this on Archive.com (perhaps there is a trusted version hiding in plain site on the forum here?)
ATI Catalyst Suite 6.2 including coverage for:

• Radeon® 9800 series
• Radeon® 9700 series
• Radeon® 9600 series
• Radeon® 9500 series
• Radeon® 9200 series
• Radeon® 9100 series
• Radeon® 9000 series
• Radeon® 8500 series
• Radeon® 7500 series
• Radeon® 7200 series
• Radeon® 7000 series
• Radeon® Xpress 200 series
  Note: ATI All-In-Wonder™ variants based on the above are also supported.

• This Catalyst software suite also provides Beta software support for the following ATI products:
• Radeon® X850 series
• Radeon® X550 series
• Radeon® X800 series
• Radeon® X300 series
• Radeon® X600 series

The latter specifically mentions my card, the former does not. The latter doesnt include DAO/MDAC or the Encoder package etc if i needed those. Any ideas on which (if either) is correct and what is safe and necessary to install for vDub capture?

I think you should start by trying the 6.11 display and WDM drivers only. This along with the DX9 and NET 2.0 should be enough to run VirtualDub. I’m not sure what DAO/MDAC do but if VirtualDub doesn’t work without them that’s the next thing I’d try.

I know nothing about the 6.2 driver stuff.

Device Manager should be helpful in understanding what drivers are actually installed. Maybe you can share some screenshots so we can see what’s installed.

Also, can you tell us what exact make and model PC you are using? Does it have integrated graphics? If so, this could cause additional but solvable problems.

BW

Thank you for the reply 🙏

Of course, the specs of the machine are as follows (some screenshots (from my phone) to show additional details:

I am using a custom-built PC (by someone else) with the following specifications:

- Motherboard: MSI K8T MS-6702 (Socket 754)
- CPU: AMD Athlon 64 3200+ (2.2GHz)
- Graphics Card: ATI All-In-Wonder 9000 Radeon AGP
- Audio Card: Terratec SiXPack 5.1
- RAM: 1.5GB DDR SDRAM DIMM (184 pins)
- Storage:
- 80GB Seagate IDE HDD
- 160GB Maxtor SATA HDD
- Optical Drive: LG GSA-4167B
- Floppy Drive: Sony 3.5”
- OS: Windows XP Service Pack 2 (French Edition)
- DirectX Version: 9.0c
- .NET Framework Installed: Version 2.0 SP2
- AMI BIOS 3.31a

Integrated Graphics:
No, the **MSI K8T MS-6702 doesn't have integrated graphics


So re: 6.11, I read somewhere that it actually dropped support for the older Radeon cards (including mine). Apparently 6.2 does support my card, which sounds illogical, but according to chatgpt, Catalyst 6.2 was released before Catalyst 6.11 (February 2006 vs November 2006). Beggars belief.

I looked at the release notes for 6.2 and sure enough,my card is mentioned explicitly, whereas in the 6.11 notes it is not.

The Catalyst® software suite 6.2 contains the following:

• Radeon® display driver 8.221 (v6.11 has v8.31) :thumb:–(1st install)
• Multimedia Center™ 9.13 (v6.11 has v9.15) :warning:
• HydraVision™ :warning:
• HydraVision™ Basic Edition :warning:
• Remote Wonder 3.03 (v6.11 has v3.04) :warning:
• WDM Driver Install Bundle :thumb: —(2nd install)
• Southbridge/IXP Driver :warning:
• Catalyst® Control Center Version 6.2 (v6.11 has...v6.11) :warning:

:thumb: = install?
:warning: = not install

So, assuming I can find a link to it (is guru3d a trustworthy source?), would you suggest installing as I have noted above? Will this just overwrite the windows drivers?

I would stress again that if you are using the AIW model I think you are, this is the installer for you: https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...html#post14940

Build a disc of the files found there and you should be in very good shape.

I'm going to agree with 7jlong.

Try the 180-V01084-100 drivers that he's linked. Those should definitely work with your AIW 9000 as it is explicitly listed as supported in the "inf" file for the display driver in that driver set. I believe the 6.11 drivers should also work since that's what I find in my notes, but I can't get to the 6.11 "inf" file at this time to be sure. Again, I know nothing about the Catalyst 6.2 drivers except the info you've found. Guru3d might be OK, but again, I don't know. The drivers from this site are probably more "secure".

I'm a bit confused by what is shown in your Device Manager screenshot. It appears that there is some kind of WDM driver installed but it is not supporting the Rage Theater functionality, thus the yellow ! symbols. You may need to uninstall some ATI drivers before you try to install the 180-V01084-100 drivers. Hopefully, you can do this through the normal methods for Windows XP (search "uninstall programs Windows XP" or similar) if you haven't already figured this out.

You can dig deeper into what actual drivers are installed from within Device Manager by right clicking on the device name text and selecting "Properties". This should open a window with a few tabs with more information including the exact driver # in use. There is also a way you can uninstall and update drivers from here, but it gets very messy and failure prone, especially with ATI drivers so lets not go there.

BW

Thanks to you both and sorry again for the delayed reply.
I will take a deep breath and give the linked 180-V01084-100 another go– this time with a clean system!

With regard to removing the existing drivers beforehand; I didn't actually install these explicitly, so they may be Windows drivers that were built into XP SP2, but for some other ATI card?

It doesn't appear that there is anything ATI to remove in "add/remove programs" ? I have attached some screenshots of the drivers in case that gives you any additional information. (sorry, they are in French).

Welcome back. A few more comments and suggestions...

I wondered if Windows was installing those drivers by itself. It does that if they are available in the OS installation package (ISO). It can cause problems and can be difficult to get around if it does. Here's a link to a discussion on how to get around it if it becomes necessary. Read the whole thread. the best answer is at the end. Basically you have to hide the "cab" directories (folders) from Windows by renaming them. You can probably restore the original directory names once everything is running properly.

I guess first you can try to install the drivers from the 180-V01084-100 package over the top of the Windows installed drivers. That might not work since it's probably what you've done before. If it works, great! I suspect it won't:(.

If it fails but you still have a "functional system", you might want to experiment with uninstalling all of the ATI drivers from device manager to understand how that works. I believe it will ask you to reboot the system to finish the uninstall (which will then probably induce their reinstallation at boot up unless you intervene as discussed in the linked thread).
Note: Uninstalling the display driver may take you back to 800x600 screen resolution. Correct this by right clicking on the desktop and change the display resolution to at least 1024 x 768 so things fit on the screen.

To circumvent the automatic driver reinstallation, I think you will have to rename the "cab" directories after you've uninstalled the drivers but before you reboot.

Now reboot. This should restart Windows and give you the opportunity to install needed drivers manually. Decline.

If you can get to this point without having to start over with a clean install, you could try to install 180-V01084-100 from here. If this fails, then you will need to start with your "clean install" and uninstall the Windows installed drivers before you install the 180-V01084-100 drivers.

So to try to summarize assuming a clean install.
1. Let Windows do it's thing and finish the installation (as shown in your device manager pics).
2. Uninstall all of the ATI drivers from Device Manager, including the display driver itself. Adjust resolution as needed.
3. Before rebooting, rename the "cab" directories.
4. Reboot and decline to install any drivers.
5. Run the 180-V01084-100 installation process installing the display driver and the WDM driver. It might require a reboot between the two driver installations.

I hope this works!

BW

Cheers 🙏

hah! I did indeed read the whole thread, but I think I may have missed the best answer –*most of it was about resurrecting old post (story of my life). Thank you for the link though, I would have never found or even thought to try to find that folder. Is it easy to find? I google didnt turn out much - I saw someone mention "C:\WINDOWS\Driver Cache\i386" ?

There were some other interesting bit that were said too: One person said: "With XP you can't uninstall drivers that are in use. It's best to uninstall drivers in safe mode."
I was actually scared of this as the active display driver would be running as I wanted to uninstall it. I once read that it was better to install drivers before the card was in even (not sure that even works with XP).

The same guy also said "Also while in safe mode, after unistalling the drivers, completely delete the device (ie: video card) in device manager." I will definitely heed this advice. I assume this is ok to do in safe mode, but if I remove the video card, I am curious what happens on reboot?

I suspect you are right, but it might be my fear. I think the issue I had the first time around is that I had no idea how hard it was to revert after installing bad drivers. I was trying all kinds of different ATI drivers, unsure which were relevant to my card. This time though, I would rather play is safe....may be my last chance before my gf makes me throw it all away (the computer lives in the living room right now).

At the moment there aren't any drivers in there to uninstall, it's only the Windows ATI Drivers in the Manage hardware section I see.

In safe mode is the best bet? And to uninstall these, I do it via the hardware manager? (right click, uninstall)

1. I think it's done what it can - those :warning: symbols are persistent, so i guess whatever windows had in the bucket by default didnt work for my card.
2. OK, sounds good, will do that.
3. noted √
4. √
5. Have downloaded and put the iso on my desktop.

Will keep you posted, I think I will try this tomorrow!

Thanks again.

You should be able to uninstall the Windows installed ATI display drivers without going into safe mode. There are “generic” VGA drivers that will then be used. This is where you might need to increase the display resolution to make things fit on the screen.

To find those “cab” folders, you may need to change the “view” in file manager to not “hide system files” ( or some such). The default settings hide things that they don’t want you to mess with, and the cab files are likely amongst those they hide by default. You do need to be a bit more careful once you’ve done this because you could now do some real damage to the needed Windows files and file structure.

I also find it helpful to change the setting to “show file extensions” (the 3 characters after the .) which tell you (and the system) what kind of file it is (text, executable, etc.). To make this “stick” you also have to tell it to make the setting “apply to all folders”, otherwise it will only apply to that particular folder you are currently viewing.

BW

PS: I’m doing this from memory so the exact terminology might be off, but I believe it’s close.

Well, despite my best, most cautious efforts, I think I may have messed it up.

I followed all the steps:

1. renamed the cab files drivers_old.can and sp2_old.cab (in C:\WINDOWS\Driver Cache\i386)
2. uninstalled the drivers one by one, ending with the display driver, which prompted a restart.
3. Restarted, as you said, the driver changed to the VGA generic adapter.
4. Launched the ATI installer from disc 180-V01084-100 and unchecked everything but the Multimedia Drivers and the Unified component (verifying I already had DirectX 9c installed)
5. Started the installation; just after it started, I saw the screen go black and pop up again in normal resolution.
6. Minimised the installer and say that Windows somehow found and installed that bloody driver again automatically!

I tried to stop the ATI installer, but it refused and just kept going, probably doing some kind of weird partial installation.
So in short, renaming the cab drivers didn't work. Windows still found what it needed. I also tried renaming the Driver_Cache folder and it still found them. I also tried doing this from Safe Mode to see if that would prevent the auto-installation but that also didnt fly.

I restarted and tried various other things to try and see if I could get Windows to calm down with its automatic installation but I failed, so finally, I just tried to install the ATI package again in full, with the windows drivers installed to see if that helped (it didnt, nothing at all appeared to have changed as a result of the installation).
Further, the ATI packages actually needed things inside the sp2.cab to install, so I needed to reintroduce that.

I led to believe one of two things here –*either the drivers in the 180-V01084-100 do not support my card or my erratic installation messed things up.

Seeing though as nothing appears different in the system after having had a successful installation, and that I read that note about the 9000 AIW being dropped in the 6.11 Catalyst release, I would cross my fingers and hope that perhaps it might just be that I do in fact need the 6.2 release (which was released earlier than 6.11 of course).

Is there any way you think I can salvage this? To note: I haven't actually been able to find the 6.2 installer anywhere (it's no longer of guru3d).

You seem to have done everything right. I think Windows is just trying too hard to be smarter than you are (it thinks it knows better…). I think I remember reading somewhere that Windows automatically caches installed drivers to a hidden, very hard to find storage location and that this can interfere with installing the drivers you want versus what it thinks are best. I also think it strongly prefers newer drivers over older ones. I still think there is a way around this, but I’m going to have to dig deep to find or remember it. We need jwillis84 here!

I’ll try to dig into this and the 6.11 compatibility issue later today. My gut and vague memories make me believe the 6.11 drivers will be compatible and it’s just an oversight/typo that the ATI 9000 series appears to have been dropped.

I find it interesting that you can get it to reboot with the generic VGA drivers at all given that it then messes up when you try to install the 180-V01084-100 drivers. This is counterintuitive if Windows is “forcing” its own ATI drivers later. One thing you might try is to start over just as you’ve done but when installing the 180-V01084-100 set, install only the display drivers and then reboot and see if just those can be installed correctly. You should then be able to install the WDM drivers as a separate process.

One last option to try would be to get to the VGA drivers state and then when installing the 180-V01084-100 drivers just let it install everything including Catalyst Control Center. Maybe there’s some issue with doing the partial install that the full install can handle. It adds clutter, but it shouldn’t actually hurt anything, and I think much of it can be uninstalled later.

Sorry this isn’t going better :(
BW

To be honest, I would imagine that windows normally probably does know better than ME, but equally, I wish it would listen more!

I wonder if the drivers were indeed installed properly on the second round, if we can find then on the system to check and see if my card is listed as supported in the pref files? I know the installation failed on the first go around, but it seemed to succeed just fine on the second, but as far as the hardware profile was concerned, it didn't appear different from before the restart/ATI installation.

Re: the compatibility issue, let me know if you find anything about that, would be interesting to know! I looked around and saw it mentioned in a couple different places (ChatGPT confirmed, but I don't really trust ChatGPT).

Thanks again!

I will just add again: wipe your hard drive down to nothing, and reinstall XP from scratch. Then install - from a CD - the ATI software. I know, I know - a mounted ISO should work just as well as a burned CD - but you might want to humor me on this if you aren't doing this already. We're talking very old technology here.

There is no clear reason the listed installation package should not work for your card. When installation is complete, the driver version is listed as 6.14.10.6462 - just now checked my own installation. When I set up my capture machine, I install XP, then the ATI drivers, then Turtle Beach drivers (all from burned CDs I keep), in that order. Then I deal with capture software (VirtualDub, WinDV, etc). I also agree with the recommendation from BW37 above - install the Control Center. It doesn't hurt anything, but might help.

Having read all your troubleshooting and attempts, I just think starting from scratch might save you a lot of time. Again, unless there is something strange about the card you are holding, I think your troubles are down to a rat's nest of installations that are complicating anything further. All of these cards and installers were almost scandalously notorious for this kind of mess back in the day, and starting over is sometimes just the easiest way.

"I don't really trust ChatGPT"

+1. All the output I have seen from ChatGPT on topics like this sounds like a misinformed teenager "discovering" old technology via carelessly skimmed forum and Reddit threads.

Sorry again for the delay, been running into work issues on another project and it's eating all my time, but this project is always in the back of my mind waiting on deck!

I have just burned a physical copy of the ISO just in case that is indeed the issue (wouldn't be surprised) – before I head back to the reset button, I may as well try and see if this will install, and barring that, I can try and uninstall the drivers and see if indeed the Catalyst 6.2 drivers will work (I found them on archive.com).

This next round, I will just install everything on the CD and restart. Will report back!