Is a proprietary VHS-C VCR good for basic capture?
 

Hello,

I just dusted off my old Panasonic Palmcorder which uses VHS-C and I was interested in capturing the video off of it onto my computer.
The common issue is that when looking at this footage on a TV or my capture card, whether through the camera's AV out or my Toshiba VCR, whenever I moved around the camera in the video, the signal gets very jumpy, making some of the footage on it very hard to watch.
I've been educating myself on methods to make this better, and what I've been finding is that I need a TBC. I only have a basic understanding of them at this point, and it seems that all the ones that would work are upwards of $1K. I'd rather forget about it than spend that kind of money.
However, I looked on Facebook Marketplace, and it looks like someone near me is selling a JVC HR-FC100u for $250, reputable seller too, and the best part is, it includes a proprietary VHS-C player.
My thought is the signal won't be so jumpy since it's proprietary VHS-C, and my Palmcorder plays it without issues. But like I said, I just started getting into this stuff, so I figure it's better to ask people who know more than me.
The question: would it be a good idea to purchase this? I'm not looking for super crisp capture. Just something that's watchable.

Generally I've seen those JVC HR-FC100U's and similar machines as more of a gimmick. The one "line" of non-adapter requiring machines that I think are pretty good are the JVC BR-S lines that end with 22 or 25 (525, 622, 822). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvgTI6E7FFc&t=882s

He puts a physically obviously wrinkled VHS-C tape in there and it handles it pretty well. The vertical jitter still there with there with the TBC on could be due to the camera itself shaking at the time of the recording rather than typical timebase errors as well.

Not that I'd recommend the average person get one, because the cons will outweigh the pros for most:

Pros:
(If has TBC option installed) - Built-in line/frame TBC
(If has TBC option installed) - Component video output
(If has TBC option installed) - Built-in proc amp including YC delay as part of the TBC
Directly accepts regular VHS and VHS-C without adapters
Can get rid of macrovision all by itself - I've never seen another VCR series that can do this
Has a tape signal strength meter with manual tracking knob
Has balanced audio outputs (both a pro and a con) but a pro if your capture setup supports it
Has a drum hours meter in the menu so you know just how used it actually is before you buy.
Has a gold-plated mode switch, so that doesn't require cleaning as it cannot oxidize.
Both tape hubs are direct drive with their own capstan-like motor.

Cons:
Not all units have the TBC option installed - you'll know it has it if you see the component outputs on the back.
Plays SP speed tapes only
Weighs 50lbs and is rather large, therefore prone to shipping damage.
Certain capacitors are almost always bad and require changing initially.
Requires sometimes extensive mechanism re-lubrication and disassembly.
S-Video output uses a 7 pin Dub connector - easy enough to wire this up, but generally isn't plug and play if using S-Video output
Has balanced audio outputs - technically superior, but also not plug and play for most capture setups and requires adapters.
Hard to get parts, but compatible pinch rollers and belts are available.
May possibly oversharpen leading to ringing
Unlikely to work if it has never been refurbished

-- merged --

If it was me, I wouldn't buy the FC100U either though. On a budget I'd probably stick with the VCR you have and add a Panasonic ES10 or ES15. Problem with those can be that they can have bad capacitors as well. If you are just transferring a few tapes, it's also possible to put VHS C tapes onto regular VHS spools (Well, it only requires one regular spool, but winding them can be annoying, though you could use a stripped down VHS rewinder to assist.

Usually the adapters are fine if used with a robust enough VCR mechanism like the AG1980.

A TBC only fixes some visual issues, not every visual issue.

If the palmcorder was not held steadily at time of shooting, making the video jumpy and hard to view there's not much that can be done about this now unfortunately.

What does the playback look like viewed directly from the palmcorder's own screen or viewfinder? Or played back on your Toshiba VCR connected directly to a TV?

I forgot to mention that part. It looks completely normal played back on the Palmcorder, no major visual glitches, but whether I play it back using an VHS-C adapter on the Toshiba VCR, or connecting the Palmcorder to the VCR, it looks very jumpy.

OK. What does it look like connecting the palmcorder directly to a TV?

Here's footage I have of it from earlier off of a capture card i have running off the Palmcorder. It displays normally without the glitches on the Palmcorder's screen, but like this on the TV and capture card.

Welcome. :)

With that attached clip, it is 100% obvious:
(1) the recording is misaligned, and will not track
(2) the violent shakes back-and-forth is due to an unstable timebase, aka no TBC in use

You need
(1) better VCR -- and not the one you asked about
(2) a decent TBC

What capture card? That may be junk as well.

Now, responding to the rest of the thread (which I'd actually started to answer before the last reply)...

Replying as I read...

The tapes were likely recorded misaligned. "All you need to do" (which isn't that easy) is "break"/misalign a VCR to match the alignment.

You need a TBC, but not for the reasons you currently think, (Don't worry, that will come later, if you don't add one now with a proper VCR.)

TBCs are boring tools for a task (video capture), not any different from a refrigerator, dishwasher, clotheswasher, or a lawnmower. And yet, nobody ever complains about those online. In fact, most people automatically understand that are $1k+ because they've seen the costs all their life. But video is new to them, so "oh no, money!" You have to overcome this backwards thinking.

Not worth it, terrible price, low-end unit.

No, you think wrong.

It's misaligned.

No.

Yes.

Wrinkles don't matter the way you seem to think they do ... until they do. (It's too complicated for this post.) Wrinkles are never good, but only some wrinkles can devastate the image. The quality of the VCR does play a part, but that's not the entire story.

There is no (line) TBC inside. It's an ancient composite-only VCR, and JVC TBCs need s-video. Easy tell.

Highly doubt it. In fact, I'm just go to outright say "no" here.

It does not.

Beware Google searches for it.
AI is an idiot: "An "HR-FC100u" is a model of a time base corrector (TBC) manufactured by Hitachi," (WRONG!) :mad4:

NOTE: Be careful with advice like "may have TBC" -- don't do that. If you don't know, don't guess. That can mislead people, and you can be the cause of them wasting money. Then, to them, you're an a-hole with bad advice. We get enough of that crap from Reddit and Youtube, people that don't know what they don't know.

None of that really matters here. Most of those are what people would/should considered "bells and whistles" (and I truly hate the term, because it's misused too much).

Yep.

Same.

No. Upgrade to a non-TBC JVC S-VHS, and certain models can be realigned without too much effort (HR-S59xx, maybe 29xx). I keep SR-V101 for realignment, essentially the with-TBC version of the 59xx.

Yes, for the strong+crippled line TBC, and non-TBC frame sync. It's very obviously needed here.

Yes, and all sorts of other quality-reducing issues, such as posterization, semi-aggressive AGC, luma gain, etc. It's not a transparent tool, not a TBC, not a "TBC replacement", but better than nothing. That's it: better than nothing. To use a crass analogy, it's essentially wrapping your junk in Saran wrap because you're out condoms.

That's a lot of work for not much gain. Just get a quality JVC CP7U type -C adapter.

Certain JVCs can as well. When the lid of the 59xx is open for realignment, I'd suggest it will work okay. With the lid closed, different story.

:congrats: