Equipment recommendations to capture Hi8?

[Zeratai]

Hello, I need recommendations for equipment to transfer to digital my Hi8 tapes. I already own a CCD-TRV608 which I use to record and transfer with an ElGato video capture card. I did this for about 1 year, before stumble on a Reddit post and a video saying it was an awful device, so I’ve decided to take a step forward in capturing analog. I’ve been reading a lot about the subject but I could not find in this thread https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...-digital8.html any recommendations for a good capture card or device.

I do have a pci FireWire card which I use to transfer my mini DV.

Thanks for any help you can give me.

[lordsmurf]

A basic workflow is VCR/camera > TBC > capture card

Not just any random VCR/camera/TBC/card, but items known specifically for quality.

I always forget which of the Hi8 decks have, or don't have, have line TBCs. TherConfirm. it'll be int he menu, if it does. (If not, then you need another camera.)

You lack any frame TBC, but you can risk it for a few tapes. Dropped frames (and audio sync) are the nasty byproducts of lack of frame TBC. In order to attempt this, you quality of the camera, and the capture card, will be extremely important. You won't find quality cards new on Amazon/wherever, that have the resiliency needed.

Yes, bad card, Elgato earned the nickname Elcrapo.

FYI, this is why I try to always have a few capture cards in the marketplace. I want to be the easy button, to help others avoid wasting time on bad results/quality.

Firewire is not a benefit at all here.

[timtape]

What do your captures look and sound like? Why not upload an example or two?

[aramkolt]

If I recall correctly, models that end with "8" have mono audio output only via the RCA jacks anyway, so keep that in mind. For me, that'd be a dealbreaker all by itself. You probably should look that up yourself though, could be one of the odd models that doesn't follow the pattern.

DV preserves interlacing and has a much higher bitrate - obviously at the tradeoff of a larger file size. Audio is also pretty crappy on the elgato, again, due to low bitrate.

All capture cards have a threshold of what degree of time base errors they'll "accept" before they start dropping frames, so it's hard to say for sure if you *need* a frame TBC, but if you're seeing vertical jitter or getting dropped frames (as reported seen in virtualdub or amarec TV), or audio sync issues, then yes, you need one for that specific capture chain/card.

The other advantage of the DV route is that audio sync issues are almost never a problem which I believe is due to the way it gets encoded.

Could you do better than DV and also add a frame TBC? Sure. But if I was you and already had a camera that could do DV passthrough conversion (which you didn't mention what miniDV camera you had, but odds are that it can), I'd try that first and see if I was satisfied with the video quality part of DV at least. Stereo or not may or may not matter to you depending on the content. The DV test will show you just how big of an improvement can be had with items you already have compared to what you are currently doing.

What I would avoid is the professional decks as they are more likely to be higher hours (though some do have hour counters and TBCs like the EVO-9850), but even those are full of surface mount capacitors that will need changing and I'd not consider them to be a "ready/reliable to use" if it hasn't already had extensive work done. Camcorders in good cosmetic condition often will have less than 100 hours on them and they obviously take up much less space, and if you ever did need to service them, they are much easier to ship without damaging due to their size. They are also easier to re-ship and re-sell being smaller etc if you aren't planning to keep it forever.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramkolt

All capture cards have a threshold of what degree of time base errors they'll "accept" before they start dropping frames

This part is very true.

However, it's rarely greater than 50/50 odds, a coin flip. A few are slightly better odds, most are vastly less. DV cameras or DV boxes, only have a 50/50 chance of not having drop/insert issues.

The main misunderstand about DV ingest is that the cameras/boxes do not report the analog ingest frames dropped/inserted, but rather the post-ingest I/O issues from DV box to computer. It's not the same drop/insert. So you can have "no dropped frames" reported by the DV software, but frames were obviously lost on footage review.

Quote:

The other advantage of the DV route is that audio sync issues are almost never a problem which I believe is due to the way it gets encoded.

This is not true at all.
This is a myth.
You're falling for 25-year-old Canopus marketing, and a total misunderstanding (on their part) as to what "audio lock" meant (hint: it has nothing to do with sync due to dropped/inserted frames). This has been discussed, ad nauseam, for the past 20+ years now. It's not true now, it wasn't true then. It was initially Canopus-only nonsense, and DataVideo/others were accused of not locking audio. But over the decades, the myth has encompassed all DV boxes, and all DV cameras.

But there is nothing -- literally nothing -- special about DV when it comes to audio sync loss. It happens just as easily with those boxes as with any other capture card. DV can, and does, drop/insert frames.

DV is a 1990s technology (Pentium II/III era) that pre-dates the 2000s lossless capturing methods, with the latter still used to this day. With exceptions*, people still using DV for ingest are generally (1) misinformed, or (2) stubborn, often with the attitude of "nobody notices the difference anyway" (which is false, proven over and over again, literally for decades now). *And those exceptions are limited capture card options, mostly Mac users that cannot use, or refuse to use, Windows.

The most damning aspect is that the DV boxes (not referring to DV cameras here) are often more expensive than better capture cards. Why? Mostly because people are still stupid enough to pay the asking prices. (Same for ClearClick devices, high-priced crap.) DV cameras are different, of course, as those are made to play/record DV tapes. But save DV cameras for DV tapes, not for inferior analog transfers.

Quote:

Sure. But if I was you and already had a camera that could do DV passthrough conversion (which you didn't mention what miniDV camera you had, but odds are that it can), I'd try that first and see if I was satisfied with the video quality part of DV at least. Stereo or not may or may not matter to you depending on the content. The DV test will show you just how big of an improvement can be had with items you already have compared to what you are currently doing.

Because DV will only be a marginal improvement over the current Elgato, it's not much of a basis for comparison. It won't be the typical night-and-day difference, but more like night-to-dusk.

Quote:

What I would avoid is the professional decks as they are more likely to be higher hours (though some do have hour counters and TBCs like the EVO-9850), but even those are full of surface mount capacitors that will need changing and I'd not consider them to be a "ready/reliable to use" if it hasn't already had extensive work done.

Correct.