Converting Hi8 videos, other analog formats?
 

Hello all, first time posting on this forum.

I have an awful lot of Hi8 Videos (abt. 100-200) from my aunt and I've been meaning to convert them to digital, since they have members of the family which have since died. They have been kept in a dry place and I have watched a few of them, which they play back well.

How should I go about converting these to digital, I have heard of the god-awful stories about the USB capture, so I've decided to steer clear of them.

Any input would be vastly appreciated, if this goes well, I also plan on digitizing other family member's collections.

Kind regards

Oh yes, all the modern USB capture cards suck.

I have a feeling your budget would be small, so I'd just recommend a Hi8 Camcorder (unless you already have one) Panasonic ES10/ES15 DVD recorder as a "Time Base Corrector" (It isn't one, and has drawbacks, but it is better than nothing) and a capture card like a Pinnacle 510 or 710. Lordsmurf is selling some Pinnacles for only $175. The Panasonic DVD recorders tend to go around $150 to $200.

As for where to buy Hi8 Camcorders, you could gamble on Ebay, I myself would recommended I & N Electronics. Bought refurbished Hi8 Camcorders there myself and have not been disappointed. Though most of the models they have since been sold out.

There are some listings that are still up for sale, some being of models that are on this list

They tend to go for around $300

So all in the total cost would be $675 max. And I'd say that's pretty good if you have 100+ tapes, if you were sending them over to a service that would've charged let's say $30 per tape, the total coast would have been $3,000 for 100 tapes, and $6,000 for 200.

Aya,

Thank you very much for the reply, I forgot to add this into my initial message but I already have the Hi8 Camcorders for playback.

Also, does anyone know if the Black Magic capture devices are good compared to the horrible USB dongles?

They are better, but not the best for consumer analog tapes from my understanding due to those formats being unstable. That's why we use recommended VCRs and Time Base Correctors before converting the footage using specific capture cards, to correct these tapes signal wise (unless the tape was just shit to begin with, ie recorded using a faulty player) so that the capture card and software should record them without any dropped frames or audio sync problems. Physical damage is a whole different story though..

They are however great for High Definition sources, and specifically broadcast Stand Definition sources (U-Matic, Betacam, Quarter Inch Reel to Reel, etc)

A local professional I know and transfer service I've been to who both convert these old analog media do use Black Magic devices, but they don't strictly deal with consumer analog formats like VHS and Hi8, but mostly broadcast formats. I'd cut them some slack for sticking with Black Magic, since they also do use S-VHS VCRs and TBCs in general.

Got memories charges 35 a tape with a ten tape minimum and more if there is mold. He said his average is 35 a tape. That is for one person running a bunch of Elgatos through Macs. A pro with good gear capturing losslessly has to charge higher.

The shuttle is trash but idk about the rest. The pinnacles in the marketplace are really nice.

Welcome. :)

Replying as I read...

That's a lot of tapes, and will require a lot of time.

Here's the rule: The cheaper the gear, the longer the process will take. And that's ignoring reduced quality. When a person only has 50 or less tapes, they can deal with it. But for 100, 200 tapes? You will come to hate the process, and you will quit before it's complete. I've seen this happen many times over the decades.

When you use inferior gear, you'll accrue a large "set aside" pile. Those are tapes that didn't transfer well, or at all, and had to be "set aside" to try later. When proper gear is in use, that pile is small/tiny/zero. When inferior gear is in use, it can be half the tapes.

This means the project is important. Not just to you, but to the entire family. This is your family history. Do right by them, do right by yourself. Do not skimp on gear. If you do, you will regret it later -- something I've also read/heard more times that I can remember.

Converting videotapes requires a basic formula:
VCR/camera/player > some form(s) of TBC > capture card/device

But you don't want random gear. For Hi8, the suggested workflow is:
Sony Hi8 camera with line TBC > Cypress/DataVideo type frame TBC > Pinnacle/ATI type capture card

Some of the better gear is getting harder to come by, so the longer you wait, the more you'll have to deal with non-ideal gear, which again leads to lower quality, longer timeframe to complete, and lots of frustration.

It's not the fact that "USB sucks", as USB is merely the data transfer method. Quality USB cards do exist, but none are sold new on Amazon/eBay in the 2020s. Those "new" cards are all terrible (and "new" refers to the fact that the cards use old tech -- often reverse engineered by Chinese copycat manufacturers, made cheaper and inferior).

Bad internal PCI/PCIe cards also exist. The card determines quality, not the comms method used.

I never assume that. In fact, it's a really bad assumption to make. When a person asks for help, it doesn't imply they're seeking the cheapest method possible. In fact, in this post, when the OP is discussing "god-awful" quality capture cards, it's a given that he/she isn't seeking bottom-barrel costs (and quality). Especially considering the facts that these are one-of-a-kind precious memories for the whole family, and costs are clearly not the only factor.

Never assume. Let's verify with the OP.

With Hi8 sources specifically, ES10/15 really shows weaknesses. I know how to make the units fail when fed Hi8 sources. ES10/15 is merely a strong+crippled line TBC, with non-TBC frame sync. The line TBC is vastly worse than Hi8 camera line TBCs, and the non-TBC frame sync performs worse here than on VHS. Indeed, "better than nothing", but not by much for this exact use case.

Using ES10/15 for 100-200 tapes is some major S&M as far as I'm concerned. You have to like frustration and stress. You can do it, but it sucks.

Note that Pinnacle cards have versions. So not just any random 510/710. The wrong versions have multiple issues, ranging from noise injection to various driver failures, and more.

This is why I never say "buy this model", because it's bad advice. The "model" is really multiple models sharing a number. This is the situation with many capture cards, VCRs, and TBCs. Very often, there's no visible outside markings. Some seem to show markings, but actually do not (those refer to something else entirely).

Which exact model?

BM cards were made for HD, and "also do" SD, but quite poorly. These are the wrong tools for Hi8 capture. You will have issues, often even with TBC in use.

^ This. :congrats:

Pro settings can be determined by factors, especially ROI. So if BM is used for a majority, and SD consumer is a minority, that makes sense. I could make many more comments on this, but it doesn't apply. Just realize a home user with 100-200 tapes won't match some random studio.

This is why my advice is per-scenario specific, and considers all the pertinent factors.

And the quality is trash. That's not a guess, but we've seen the samples. :sick:

In response to 'lordsmurf' (Thank you for the reply, very helpful!),

The camera I have is a 'Sony Handycam Vision ccd-trv57' (NTSC) (I do have all the cables that go with the camera too). Also, do you recommend any gear in particular for a task like this, for example a reputable TBC, Capture Card, and capture software, I remember someone not recommending OBS for capturing software in an earlier post somewhere.

I'll get my popcorn :)

I'll make a few comments on the camera.

Has:
TBC

Doesn't have:
S-Video output
Stereo audio output

...and is Video8 only - so if you have any Hi8/Digital8 tapes as well, that's a no go.

Oh good points Aram, yeah would probably just suggest a different camcorder model from the same series that has S-Video and is Hi8 like the TRV-67. Or if you need a Stereo audio model, the TRV-87.

As for capture software, really just use VirtualDub. OBS isn't meant to capture analog tapes, but to instead just record a computer screen or other video source like a game console.

I'm not aware of any Video8 camera with a line TBC.

s-video is great, certain composite model units are fine (138)

And stereo is really not that important, as it's just a low-end single-sited consumer camcorder that made the tapes. It's not true stereo at all. That was really just a "feature" to bamboozle consumers in the 90s.

If you look at the current prices of the items in the marketplace on this site LS has listed they aren’t that far off of what TBCs are selling for on eBay. With the ones on eBay you have no idea of the generation or the condition and a lot of that stuff gets passed around. The bad gear has to go somewhere. This stuff is older and it is risky to buy from a lot of places.

Was also not aware of Video8 ones having TBCs, but Apparently the 17/37/57/67/87 all used the same manual and it doesn't list TBC as being a difference and it does show the TBC menu elsewhere in the manual. OP could check the player menu to see if TBC shows up though.

Attachment 19564

There's no TBC in the Video8 camera. -- I stand corrected!

Incorrect. The broken TRV57 I own has the TBC ON/OFF option available in its still working menu system. The camera overall is non-functional having a “run away” drum. I guess I really should try at least reseating the cables ala 12voltvids many videos to see if that can restore proper drum speed control…

https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...igital8-5.html

Of course even if the 17, 37 and 57 models really do have functional TBCs, they are still not desirable since they do not have s-video out, play only Video8 tapes (not Hi8) and they are also mono audio out only. But if you have a working unit, it could still be useful for Video8 tapes.

BW

The OP stated Hi8 tapes. So .... ? :hmm:

Perhaps he has Video8 tapes?
OP, have you tried your tapes in your camera? I would assume so, but I don't like to assume.

Unlike regular VHS/VHS-C some V8 home decks and camcorders did offer TBC, none of them as far as I know came equipped with S-Video, So in a sense a Hi8 camcorder is still preferred whenever possible.

Hello, LordSmurf,

I do apologise for the delayed reply.

Yes, my mistake, they are in fact Video8, apologies all!

Regards,