Cypress TBC CTB-531R, CDM-831TR good?
 

I got 2 Cypress units - CTB-531R & CDM-831TR.
One is TBC (CTB-531R) and other Multiformat converter with TBC.

To my surprise they works. CTB-531R needs recap (I believe CDM-831TR too, but it works as it should), there are problem with audio levels and some other, I found because of caps.

But chips are OK, perhaps.

Maybe they works because of early manufacturing year?

CTB-531R serial number is 200706110014
CDM-831TR serial number is 200612090004

Can those first 8 digits be manufacturing date? For me those 8 first digits looks like manufacturing number and last 4 - actual serial number.

Cypress serial numbers aren't date codes. I've seen serials that have Taiwanese holidays in them, and you know nobody was working that day. And that exact code range, for these units, is where things began to get murky.

There's no way to fully vet a unit from physical inspection only, especially not external-only inspection.

I need to see a clear photo of the board chips. It's still not a bulletproof test of anything, but there are nudges to likely good or bad units, based on what I see.

Where'd the units come from?

When Cypress units fail, it's almost always chip-based failures, not something solved by recap. That unit is probably just a doorstop now. Re-capping rarely fixes those. TBC caps-based issues also cascade, and causing permanent damage.

Here they are.
They are from Balkans (Serbia) TV studio.

Audio level output (one channel) problem is simply dead cap. And some grain looks like too. Both has very similar design.

You should be bypassing the audio anyway. Don't use it. Route around it, audio directly from VCR/camera to capture card.

Photo of the chips. Plural. Not any single chip.

OK, here they are.
If you need better pictures, please let me know.

OK, Thanks for advice. But anyway, even if I bypass audio, it should work by default :) If those caps started to fail, perhaps better is to replace them all, not a big job.

I didn't say not to re-cap, only to not use the audio.

The forum shrunk the images, so I can't se all details, but I see enough. 80-20 odds these are good. The "JVC menu test" is needed next. It's still not 100-0, or 0-100, after that menu test, but can nudge.

I'll need to see menu capture clip, preferably while running the menu test. Then let it record the blue screen for 5-10 minutes. Lossless, post it to Google/Dropbox/iCloud for me to download and scrub.

But I have no JVC :( May I record universal test pattern or colour bars from test cassette?

Then evaluating these units will be difficult for you, impossible even.

Nope, that will not work.

Well, I am Europe and Panasonic always was a major brand here in professional and consumer video.
We know them, can repair them and I never crossed my mind that something should be changed.
For example - if you see good Panasonic with K mech for sale what "eject cassette immediately after loading" it is 99% someone removed mechanism upper plate and did not read manual where is clearly noted how loading mechanism should be assembled and installed.
But I am open for new knowledge and JVC too :)
What is, in your opinion, the best PAL JVC S-VHS? I will take it under my radar.

Those TBC and Converter/TBC I found accidentally in Balkans and bought for cheap. However shipping took about month :)

Here as well. But part of the TBC testing method that exists relies on a JVC S-VHS VCR menu. It's not something that is fully known to exist on other decks/cameras, and random test patterns are not a test (and is nothing more than a new variable).

I'm most fond of the 7965, but the 7600/7700 series is fine too (7611,7711,7722,etc). I have multiple PAL decks, both JVC and Panasonic (and Samsung and others, but those are junk).

So you didn't locate in person. Then what site was used? (PM it if needed.)

Thanks! I will take a look around what I can find. Do you know trusted sellers in Europe? If Panasonic I can buy in whatever condition (I always look at cosmetically mint and non working) and repair or throw out (put on shelf in attic for parts) if it does not worth to repair, I do not want to learn JVC that deep. So if I will by JVC then only fully serviced from trusted technician.

It was private sale. Got them both for EUR 300 without any warranty and did not had any hope that it will be anything useful. But looks like they are. At least one of them (831). Another one (531), along with left channel audio output defect has a too grainy picture. Of course it does not mean it is related to capacitors (about audio I am sure), but in this case I believe is better to replace them all and then look what happens. Because no service manuals and/or technical info.

But they looks really identical, except 831 is multisystem converter too (can be useful for SECAM for example, I doubt someone capture in SECAM and there are capture cards for that format).

What is benefit to bypass audio? Except shorter path without unwanted processing is always better?

Since you're in Europe you are in luck, you can try VCRShop

Oh yes, in Holland, thanks!

Question about JVC HR-S7700EU. It has TBC/NR together (at least on one knob)? And how this NR differ from Panasonic DNR what is commonly separate option?

Not sure exactly I'm afraid, but with the JVC VCRs I have there are two noise reductions, one is tied to the TBC which can't be changed without turning off the TBC all together. There is another set of noise reduction that is tied to the picture mode of the VCR, setting the mode to Edit disables that kind of noise reduction.

There was a thread about Edit mode on a Panasonic AG-1980 just adding in more noise with no visible improvements in overall quality, but I dunno if it follows your Panasonic VCR

Thanks! I should learn more about JVC's before I buy one :)

Oh, please don't let my comment discourage you from buying a JVC VCR from VCRShop to test out your Cypress TBCs.

Seems like LS wants you to use the JVC Menu and capture 10 or so minutes of it to test the TBC's performance, so go do that if possible.

:) If I will buy JVC, I will buy the best (in accordance with recommendations here). But not for TBC test, but because I simply curious and want to compare with Panasonic's :)

But what I am really curious about is advice to bypass audio (route directly from VHS to capture card not through TBC). What is a benefit? I believe, audio I/O in TBC is intended for audio/video synchronizing? Or I am wrong?

You're wrong. :)

Audio connected are often for convenience, and/or splitting output to multi channels. There's no added lag, it passes through. The issue is that each device can degrade, add hiss/distortion/etc, so bypass to the least number of connections. But that's mostly true for audio, not necessarily video.

Excellent place to get PAL decks, and always let him know that member of this site sent you. :2cents:

OK, thanks! But he has no 7965 right now (at least it is not listed) so I believe I should "sign up" for the waiting list :)
Because if 7965 is better than 7700 (what is available right now) I do not want 7700 even if difference is only theoretical. It could be my only JVC deck so I want the best :)

Ah, OK I see! It has 2 inputs so it is simply switch between 1 and 2. I hate devices with no service manuals and even technical info. For Studer we have all :)

I mean, LS is saying the 7700 is still good. At this point condition matters moreso than exact model number.

Maybe it'd be best to by that now instead of waiting god knows how long until a 7965 shows up there

Correct. :congrats:

OK, I sent him a message about JVC HR-S7722.

This one:

https://vcrshop.com/product/vcr/vide...ology-tbc-dnr/

Well, good luck with that...

That should be a nice one. :congrats:

What do you mean by that? :hmm:

I made many eBay offers and sent messages.
Never ever got any response.

Where are you? That site is not related to ebay :) In ebay I buy only decks listed "for parts or repair" when I know I can repair them (or utilize if not). Panasonic's with K mech for example.

Do you refer to VCRshop's eBay store? https://www.ebay.com/str/vcrshop
Did you ever contact VCRshop.nl directly?
Are you even referring to VCRshop?

BTW, never use the eBay site for VCRshop. That costs him fees, it costs you fees/taxes. When a vendor is trustworthy, eBay is an undesirable middleman. All you're doing is gifting money to eBay.

Even most of the "tested" and "working" VCRs are non-working, needing repair, or useful only for parts. That place is littered with shady sellers, most of whom no nothing about the items they sell. All they see is $$$, and not the proper functionality of the item.

Nothing good comes from eBay buying gambling.

Of course. However if they looks cosmetically good, there is a big chance they are repairable, simply someone tried to "service" them before. In Germany is site kleinanzeigen.de where is a chance to buy something good/repairable. There I found Panasonic NV-HS950 with broken position switch connector and semi-stuck pinch roller assembly. And NV-HS1000 with incorrectly re-assembled loader. Both about EUR 100 each. And some good other things too, including 2007 Dodge Charger HEMI with good body for spares (my 2006 was finally rusted). But you need shipping address in Germany.

That's only a betting strategy for certain models. Some models can often be cosmetic gems, but internal failures.

Well, for a whole car, I'd understand "local shipping only". :laugh:

So I bought that JVC HR-S7722. With discount, thank you Lord Smurf! :)
Nice communication with Branko.
This will be my first JVC VCR ever. I am familiar with JVC amplifiers and turntables, but not VCRs.
So, at least, it will be possible to make one of TBC tests :)

-- merged --

I recapped CTB-531R TBC and - it works. Grain disappeared and audio levels are up to specs (OK I route audio directly from VCR and bypass TBC, but anyway). BUT - never try to recap Cypress with 2 irons, heated pliers (specially designed for SMD desoldering) or whatever. It has terrible PCB (now I know it! :mad4:). So use cutter pliers to cut capacitor (not legs, but buttom) then remove remains, cut legs at plastic level, remove plastic and then use "solder-ex" wire to remove remains of legs. So, when JVC arrives, it will be possible to make some tests :) However - it works.

-- merged --

In addition to previous post. I found poor SMD capacitor soldering quality. All of them balanced on "cold soldering" edge. When I started to remove them by cutting bottom I found legs are not soldered to PCB as they should, but only "attached" and became loose with little pull up. It could be enough for malfunction. So perhaps recap is needed not because of capacitors are out of specs, but assembly quality.

One option for those Cypresses is possibility to use any output with combination of any input (it has even component out, but there is visible degradation if used for vhs). For example I have Panasonic NV-W1 multi format VCR, it is well built with G mech, restored but has only composite output no s-video. I use it for SECAM and NTSC, because I am in PAL zone, I am not sure I want to find advanced NTSC and SECAM S-VHS for those 1-2 cassettes per year. I have not made serious test yet, but for first sight using composite in and s-video out to Pinnacle 710USB looks (but I am not sure, maybe it is illusion) a bit better than using composite i/o full path. Any experience with that?

Your pinnacle card seem to have a relatively good 3D comb filter( a.k.a 3-line digital comb filter) (remove dot crawl,color bleed, rainbow artifacts, moiré effect).

more infos:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot_crawl
https://www.avartifactatlas.com/arti...dot_crawl.html
https://www.avartifactatlas.com/arti...re_effect.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comb_filter

Thanks!

Today I received JVC HR-S7722 from vcrshop, but I found it is without remote so no access to menu. I got original remote (with at least the same buttons as in manual), but I will receive it next week. So it will be possible to record test files. Otherwise all is OK. However PS is not recapped, I wonder how critical it is? Panasonic I would recap immediately without questions.

Just for fun - lettering control was not the best on 831.
Output 2 is input 2, of course :)

But on 531 there is 2x TBC (H) no TBC (V) :)