Best PAL conversion VCR and card?
 

Hello all,

I live in Europe and want to convert many VHS tapes to digital. I don't want to use a 3rd party service for the job.

These are all home movies from around 1995, made with a Philips VHS-C PAL camcorder (unknown model, on loan from the public library), which at the time I transferred to VHS tapes using our vcr (Panasonic NV-G45EO).

The tapes seem to be in good physical condition.
About 10% of them are the originals (VHS-C, SP), and 90% are its copies in VHS (some SP, some LP).
S-VHS was not an option to me at the time.
No special adjustments (sharpening, contrast, saturation, etc.) were made.

I'd like to invest in equipment that produces great image (colors, detail).
I have a somewhat limited budget, but hopefully I can recoup most of the cost by reselling it after the job is completed.

I need some advice regarding a vcr and a capture card.

• VCR
The most sought out models seem to be JVC and Panasonic. The following vcrs (PAL, S-VHS, TBC) are available at vcrshop.com:
JVC HR-S7700EU
JVC HR-S8500E
JVC HR-S8600EU
JVC HR-S8700E
JVC HR-S9500E
JVC HR-S9600EU
JVC HR-S9700EU
JVC SR-VS30E
Panasonic NV-FS200EG
Panasonic NV-HS830
Panasonic AG-4700E

• Capture Card
Although disliked by some, I'm leaning towards Hauppauge WinTV-USB-Live2. It seems to provide good results, and is easy to find in Europe. Importing items from outside of Europe has become very expensive (shipping, taxes, customs, bureaucracy).
The card will either be used with a laptop (2024, Win11) or a PC (2012, Win7). I very much favor a USB card – the PC is old and has been known to die on me for a few days at a time, so I'd rather not mess with its PCI ports :laugh:


Thank you.

Based on my experience USB cards loose way more frames than PCI ones.
Also, WinTV-USB-Live2 would give you already lossy output.
So, I would think twice. You're about to spend a good chunk of money on good VCR, but you're trying to save on capture card?

Get JVC HR-S7700EU, it is decent deck with good TBC and NR.

However there are reports JVC handle VHS-C poorly, so for those Panasonic NV-FS200EG could be better.
The best is to have both.

You need good original Panasonic VHS-C adapter (with serial number on it) too, do not buy those cheap adapters in Amazon.

Get Pinnacle 710-USB card (you need to install crossbar thing and Virtual dub) and you need good frame TBC too. Those you can find here from LS. Even with shipping to Europe it would be cheaper then buy from vcrshop (if they have TBC, I do not know).

One thing you may consider (at least for Panasonic where it is adjustable by plastic eccentric) is to adjust tape tension to maximum.

The original settings are designed to be as gentle on the tape and heads as possible, but in our case, when dealing with old tapes, it's better to set a higher tension. The difference isn't so great as to damage anything or negatively affect performance, but for stretched tapes it provides better contact with the heads.

Hello! :)

That is "nth-gen sources" (copies), which will present challenges. So the VHS-C tapes are now gone, and all that remain are the VHS copies?

Having both TBCs in place will be important. You need both. :hmm:
- line TBC (inside the VCR) cleans the image
- frame TBC (external TBC) cleans the signal

VHS-C, and nth-gen, with only a VCR line TBC, is begging for problems.

How many tapes are we talking here? 20, 200, 2000? Numbers will help here, in order to see the -C risk.

That is the correct approach. And yes, buy it, use it, resell it, quality gear holds value.

And frame TBC.

- For lots of VHS-C, get the VS30.
- If not many VHS-C, then 7700 is fine.

Live2 cards commonly give users problems. Live2 cards are extremely finicky on input source, especially without both line+frame TBCs. Most of my capture cards sell to people who have already experienced issues with cheap/wrong cards.

There are 3 kinds of people in this world:
(1) Those who learn from the mistakes of others.
(2) Those who learn from their own mistakes -- often stubbornly refusing to learn from others' mistakes.
(3) Those who never learn.

The communication method of the hardware doesn't really matter, between USB2/3 and AGP/PCI/PCIe. The real determiner is the quality of the card. The only real truth is that most Chinese junk is USB, but lots of "internal" junk exists too (mostly pre-USB, but not all, especially those HD cards that do SD poorly).

Normally, I would agree. However...
Get the JVC SR-VS30E instead, if lots of VHS-C need to be played/converted.

Correct. But not just Panasonic, but rather all Matshushita (which owned both JVC and Panasonic when VHS-C adapters were made). The JVC C-P7U is most suggested.

BTW, trivia: Pre-pandemic pricing was $20-25 range, then it hit $50-75 during the pandemic, which was nuts. There was neve a shortage of VHS-C adapters, unlike other video gear. That's all settled down now.

But not just any random 710, as there are versions. The wrong version has noise/etc type issues. (This is why I have the good versions in the marketplace. Get that from me, and done. No more experimenting or guessing with bad and non-suggested capture cards.)

If the OP insists on avoiding frame TBC, taking his chances with dropped frames and audio sync problems, then the resiliency of the capture card becomes that much more important. That means getting a good-version Pinnacle, and avoiding the meme'd weak Live2/GV-USB2 cards.

If he simply insists on "shopping local", then I'd look for the AV350MX card, which is only sold in Europe. But WinXP/Vista/7 only, Win8/10/11 does not work with it.

I really enjoy NV-FS200. Its picture is close to JVC HR-S 7711/7722 (at first sight, not much tests provided because I got it only last week). Some tapes looks a bit better on JVC, some on NV-FS200. Panasonic NV-HS1000 is sharper and NV-HS950 sharpest. But it really depends on tape. Sometimes maybe even NV-HS950 could be chosen.

P.S.
However those "made in Germany" JVCs are put together quite sloppily. The guides on the bottom of the mechanism may not have been greased at all. When I disassembled the HR-S7711, there were real scratches on the metal at the bottom from the guides, because there was no grease at all. They did not consider it necessary to screw the main board (neither 7711 nor 7722, both of which I have). There are screw holes, but there are no screws and never have been. Of course, the mechanism holds the main board in place, but anyway. I do not know how carefully the vcrshop maintains mechanism, but they do not recap power supplies.

If you are referring to the Terratec AV350MX,

then definitely not.

The Tevion DVD creator (supposedly an ATI 600 clone) would be a better choice.

Hi Bogilein, nice to see you. :wave:

There are at least a half dozen Tevions, and the "clone" version is sold in Europe. It was a North American exclusive. However, it does have a Europe rebadged, though I forget the name off-hand (Z-something). That one does install in Win8/10/11.

The AV350MX is also an ATI 600 USB "clone". However, I think you've reminded me that it has versions too. It's been about 6 years since I looked into that model. I bought one, tested it, used it, still have have it, works great. I need to driver the Tevion 8/10/11 drivers on it.

I own several Tevion USB capture sticks.

ATI600 clone actually means Empia chipset (2860/2880/2882/2883) with the Texas Instruments TVP5150AM chipset, if I'm not mistaken.

In America, these must have been sold under the name Tevion High Speed DVD Maker.

The Tevion DVD Creator stick I mentioned has an Empia 2860 and the TVP5150AM chipset.

The Terratec AV350 also has an Empia chip and the TVP5150AM chipset.

The Pinnacle PCTV Hybrid Pro Stick (330e) also has an Empia chip and the Texas Instruments TVP5150 chipset.

When choosing a JVC video recorder these days, you should avoid buying devices with the Dynamic Drum.
You might also want to take a look at the similarly designed Philips devices. I listed them here in the forum recently.

I personally didn't like the recording from the Terratec Box 350.
Perhaps I should try different drivers to see if they produce a comparable or better result.

When choosing a JVC video recorder these days, you should avoid buying devices with the Dynamic Drum.
You might also want to take a look at the similarly designed Philips devices. I listed them here in the forum recently.

There actually is a single company that designed these cards, and then sold those designs to ATI and Hauppauge. I have the info somewhere, on exactly which (now defunct) company that was. Very obscure entity, boring unassuming name. At the time, companies were desperate to release new USB cards, even ATI (due to AMD "merger"/buyout gutting ATI). Remember, this was the 2000s, the heyday of video conversion. Cards "flew off shelves", good and bad alike, so companies needed to have their entry on the rack.

- TVP5150AM is actually a variant, not entirely the same as the ATI 600 USB chipset.
- I've cracked open multiple Tevions, none have the TI chips, aside from the one referred to as "clone".
- PCTV is a non-starter due to firmware and driver problems.
- Remember, it's not just chips, but firmware on those chips, and drivers connecting to the cards.
- Each card does have some % of proprietary to it, such as the wiring, the AV dongles. (Looks the same, but not the same.)

What, exactly, did you not like about the results from AV350MX? But yes, let's both try to see if those generic Vidbox drivers work on it.

It's such a different time now, surrounded by Chinese USB cards, junk HDMI dongles, and kids that reverse engineer a VCR and pretend like it's some sort of "new and modern standard". Thankfully, for now, we can still locate "the good stuff".