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Opinions on Sony SLV-R1000 VCR?
I found a listing in the $500 range for a truly refurbished Sony SLV-R1000 by a highly rated seller. I'm not finding anything about the model in forum search. What's your experience?
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I don't have an opinion on the unit, but if you're willing to spend that kind of money, I would strongly consider one of the approved VCR's from the VCR Buying Guide on this forum.
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It's just not that good of a deck.
If you already have a quality with-TBC JVC, and a Panasonic AG-1980P as secondary, yet still feel the need to collect other-brand VCRs, then I say go for it. My recipe is: - 1st = JVC S-VHS with TBC, all-around best - 2nd = Panasonic AG-1980P, for EP, VHS-C, linear audio, etc -- noting JVC can be fine at EP/VHS-C/linear too - 3rd = another JVC S-VHS, but non-similar/different model - 4th = other high-end models, but mostly for fun/play more than serious use/work Jumping straight to a Sony like this would be a mistake, bad use of funds. Also don't trust eBay feedback. Negatives are quite easy to get removed, which most people do not realize. The system has been gamed for years. And anybody selling dozens/hundreds of "serviced" VCRs is full of crap. Don't fall for it. In the 2020s, it's not an easy task for one person to do more than 1-2 decks per week, if truly servicing everything. |
Thanks, that's the answer I was looking for!
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Most family/private VHS (large part of digitization projects)are recorded with linear sound, not Hi-Fi. I did not noticed difference between JVC HR-S7722/7711 and Panasonic NV-FS200. And test cassettes show about the same result (however I did not tested full audio spectrum, only basic 100hz 1000hz 10Khz). Where lie the problem of JVC? |
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Testing frequency response isnt enough. We have to test broadband noise performance in playback re the reference signal. This is a common test with solely audio tape gear, or should be. Quote:
These things can happen when people are recommended VCR's solely or mostly based on their picture playback, forgetting the equal importance of audio playback, especially linear/normal audio which as you say was commonly used on many valued recordings. |
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-- merged -- If we compare the manufacturer specifications of the HR-S77xx and Panasonic NV-FS200, we see that Panasonic has specified only the parameters of Hi-Fi audio - dynamic range better than 90db, frequency range 20hz-20khz etc. JVC is more precise (or more honest?) - specifying SNR 45db (which does not go with Hi-Fi at all, and JVC's SNR is not 45 db at Hi-Fi of course, it is better) and Normal audio frequency range 70hz-10khz. I believe this worth a test. I have Panasonic linear audio test cassette 6khz/ 400hz-8khz-15khz. However not sure all frequencies are still up to specs. But at least it is possible to compare Panasonic & JVC. I am really curious :) Attachment 19851 |
Linear audio can be tweaked on JVC VCRs, I've done it. I was willing to tweak every tape if needed but when I adjusted it to the optimal position for few tapes it ended up staying that way as it didn't sound as bad as it used to be anymore, So I guess over time the head stack goes out of alignment due to fast forwarding and rewinding or it was never adjusted perfectly at the factory. Either way it plays all tapes satisfactorily now.
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We check it by adjusting it, which means misadjust it to sound worse, then rock it through the peak alignment point a few times then carefully narrow it down to the peak point, normally the sharpest, clearest sound. Just as we did when tuning video tracking for peak RF signal on older VCR's before auto tracking was introduced on later model VCR's. (Below picture of front panel tracking adjuster on old Betacord deck). To my knowledge, unfortunately automatic linear audio azimuth adjustment has never been offered on any VCR or VTR so I assume we have to adjust it manually on every deck. To explain a little more, unfortunately with video head tracking, the manufacturers could not tighten the tolerances enough, so they had to provide the consumer front panel manual Tracking Control. It's the same with linear audio azimuth especially at the very slow tape speeds. The production tolerances could not be made that tight. Hence the need to tweak azimuth. Again we cant be certain a deck's linear audio azimuth is peaked on a given unknown tape unless we adjust it for that peak. If on some tapes it turns out that the azimuth was correct before our adjusting, we now know that for certain. I suspect that if there was a manual linear audio azimuth adjuster knob on the front panel of every VCR, even better, on the VCR's remote, a whole lot more digitizing folk would be twiddling it, because it would be so safe and easy to twiddle it. Quote:
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What I meant is JVC linear audio can be improved by adjustment as the factory position can't be relied on, Once adjusted to an optimal level on some pre-recorded tapes I found out that there is no need to do it again as most tapes exhibited an acceptable db level and noise floor compared to what it was before.
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I've said for for years. These decks are are all 20-30 years old now. Gravity takes a toll. I realign everything for that reason. It's time consuming. But once done, it tends to be done for years. Although, yes, FF/REW/PLAY can have some nuanced affects, forcing premature re-realignment. |
I'm not sure if static gravity can play any role here, the parts are way too light to have enough force to move the adjusting screws, If throwing the VCR from the 10th floor than yes gravity is devastating here. It's usually brutal force resulting from damaged tapes, mis alignment or broken parts that turn the electric motor force into self destructing force and also without forgetting the human force from abuse and misuse.
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VCRs get misadjusted by mere millimeters. Gravity can definitely affect mm over decades.
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There's this line in The Big Short, where Steve Carell (based on real-life Steve Eisman) puts his hand in the air, and says "0%" That's how I feel here. 0% chance it will be the same client to client. Does not happen. At best -- and this is what I do -- you can have multiple decks with multiple offset presets. That way, you're not tweaking endlessly inside a deck guts, you just swap out to another unit. Odds of a deck working immediately is vastly more than 0% now. |
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For tapes recorded on mis aligned VCRs, I have a VCR ready for tweaking but I rarely have to do that, As I said they all play crisp audio with good audio level and very low noise floor. and I'm not a super fanatic to readjust the audio head for every tape, that's insane, but I don't question people who do it, you can be fanatic about any hobby. |
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You did not also mention the other equally important variable here which is linear tape speed. The slower the tape speed, the less forgiving of azimuth error. Standard VHS SP tape speed is 1.313ips (NTSC) or 0.921ips (PAL). That's slower than the standard Compact Cassette (1.875ips) and of course it gets slower. LP halves those speeds and then even slower, SLP and EP. From Wiki: "... This speed is quite slow: for SP it is about 2/3s that of an audio cassette, and for EP it is slower than the slowest microcassette speed. This is widely considered inadequate for anything but basic voice playback, and was a major liability for VHS-C camcorders that encouraged the use of the EP speed."... Unfortunately the Wiki article makes no mention of the added problems of azimuth misalignment the slower the tape speed. A given misalignment at SP speed might just make speech and music a little dull and more hissy, but at LP it will be worse, and EP even worse still. Speech can become not only dull but barely intelligible, with even more background noise. This is the same set of problems encountered with audio magnetic tape well before Beta or VHS were invented. Nothing new here. That's why getting the best results out of economical consumer formats can be actually harder than the more expensive and robust pro formats. It takes more expertise! Getting good, consistent results can involve more than just buying "the best" gear, banging in a tape in and pressing play. Quote:
So I dont have to: 1. open up the VCR, 2. find the correct azimuth screw (there is only one correct azimuth screw in each machine), 3. locate the correct non magnetic screwdriver for that screw, 4. adjust azimuth with the machine open and nothing to steady the screwdriver but my own hopefully steady hand, careful not to accidentally touch or damage parts inside the VCR especially the delicate spinning video head drum or the moving tape, and avoid to electrocuting myself by touching exposed high voltage components. I dont have those problems or risks. There's just one external knob to adjust. In making a simple mod, I made it easier, quicker and safer, and at less than 30 seconds per tape, adjusting audio azimuth for each tape takes only a tiny fraction of the maximum playing time of the average tape, say 180 mins for SP and 360 minutes for LP. I'm not saying that everyone should or could make this sort of mod. Maybe most cant. I'm just showing it can be done by those with the skills and it makes adjusting azimuth a lot quicker easier and safer. Pictured a TOTL Nakamichi cassette deck with a front panel azimuth adjuster built in from the factory. Pictured also is a professional Studer tape machine used in the record production business. Note the professional azimuth adjuster knob and matching scale, acting on the play head azimuth. Most pro studio tape recordings are more forgiving for a given azimuth error than SP VHS yet still these pro's have the adjuster fitted. Also pro recorded tapes often have alignment tones recorded including for azimuth. This makes it easier. You could be stone deaf and still get the azimuth right just looking at meters rather than listening. No such luck with most amateur recordings. All we have is listening to whatever was recorded on the tape and align azimuth to that as best we can. (At least when using a mono track ACE head which is the most common). Another example where getting the best results from non pro audio recordings is actually harder. For here we have nothing but our listening skills to guide us. |
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I'm not digitizing standard alignment/calibration tapes. They make rather boring listening and so far nobody has asked me to digitize one. Of course if I ever sold a machine I would first adjust azimuth to standard. Quote:
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Of course they do. I have 6 Studer A80, all speeds from 9 to 76cm/sec including 2x QC, A820, CR7, and they all has playback azimuth adjustment knobs. Original or made by JRF. But it is nearly impossible to adjust mono 1 channel azimuth by ear if recorded frequencies are below 10khz. +- 3 bogen minutes are not audible in this case even on VCR speed. If you want to mess with VCR linear audio head azimuth, order correct knob from John French. With fine thread stud. Quote:
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I find this unintelligible. Again when a tape such as VHS linear audio was - for whatever reason - obviously recorded off standard azimuth, what do you do when digitizing it? |
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And for those tests I have Panasonic NV-FS1 what I commonly use for rewinding. I do not adjust azimuth on my JVC or FS-200 if I am not sure there is azimuth problem, not simply how it sounds. In 99% if sound is like from WC, it is recorded that way. |
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Radiocom, I find it hard to relate to your description in degrees and minutes to actual sounds. For me it's simple. Having an external azimuth adjuster as pictured, there is no setup time. I can quickly and easily listen to a sample of any tape playback while slowly turning the adjuster to find the peak point in the azimuth curve. It normally takes very little time.
You claim that 99% of tapes were recorded to the azimuth standard. I would never rely on mere listening sans adjustment to judge whether there is azimuth misalignment or not, or to what degree. For me that's too subjective and unreliable. We have no reference except this unknown recording made on whatever unknown VCR or camcorder. Adjusting azimuth on any given tape from misaligned to aligned then misaligned on the other side, then back to the peak tells me whether it is aligned or not. Maybe my deck was initially aligned to the tape. Maybe not. Adjusting azimuth in and out of alignment confirms that one way or the other. Why use an indirect method of assessment, which includes an unnecessary assumption, when a direct method is possible? Yes monitoring in linear stereo and alternating with mono summed monitoring is useful as again it provides some sort of reference point, but many people dont have access to a linear stereo VCR, and many amateur VHS and VHSC tapes were recorded in linear mono. With no linear stereo playback and no easy and safe way to adjust azimuth, many people dont know how much better their linear audio could sound. |
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And keep in mind - original azimuth screw thread wears out. Adjusting azimuth N times even when it is not necessary simply damage your linear head assembly. This is why I advice to have separate VCR (it can be your sharp for example with that knob) what you can use only for test purpose if there are suspicions something wrong with azimuth. And right method is to adjust azimuth to 90 degree in accordance with test tape first and only then reproduce particular cassette and adjust azimuth and try to hear what changes. Not "on the fly" from one tape to another. P.S. One more example - for speech recorded on audio cassettes digitization I use Nakamichi LX-3 and 480 (restored of course) with removed erase head. There is no need to use CR7 or Studer A80QC for any crap. But this is not because there are no other dual capstan decks but because of possibility to adjust playback head azimuth N times (and pressure pad lifter of course). Those nylon screws does not wear out. And speech is recorded commonly in half track mono. So when reproduce in stereo you should not hear nothing - simply look at phase spectral display and adjust azimuth "on the fly" and mix to mono after digitization. But if there is "stereo" recorded, you should return to nominal azimuth with test tape and then try to adjust something or decide to leave it as is, simply applying digital phase correction after recording. |
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Of course in such a case we are in a sense flying blind re correct azimuth at points where there is not enough HF content for fine alignment to them. But if there is not the HF content in certain passages, such fine azimuth adjustment no longer matters, for now there are not the relevent HF's to be lost through azimuth misalignment! This is "the cat chasing its tail"! After such a recording we can only say, "Well if those HF's had been still there, those HF's would have been captured." ! It becomes a pointless exercise aligning for frequencies no longer there. We can only align to the content on the tape at time of digitization. As you say using a stereo playback head helps in such a situation because it's more forgiving re azimuth misalignment. I sometimes capture a mono tape in stereo while monitoring in summed mono, including keeping an eye on an Azimuth Corrector tool's live meter. |
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In 80s most tape recorder manufacturers, including Studer and Otari stopped or limited full track head manufacturing. At least when I bought last new Otari MTR-15 fom Otari GmbH in early 2000s, they told me mono heads (I was interested in full track recording heads) are not produced long time ago, only old stock maybe is available in Japan. Instead of this for full track (6mm track width) mono was used stereo heads with each track width 2,75mm with mono/stereo switch (that 0,5mm gap between tracks affects nothing in real life). For stereo azimuth adjustment switch to mono and you can adjust azimuth with ears very precise because of phase shift. + control on spectral display. P.S. Some useful resources (however I am sure we hijacked this thread, it is no more related to OP Sony) :): https://mrltapes.com/mcknight_azimuth-in-mtr.pdf https://richardhess.com/notes/2006/0...hows-and-whys/ |
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Especially for people without the skills/confidence to open up a deck and tweak the linear azimuth to a tape, this is an audio quality advantage. Played on a deck with a linear stereo head many tapes especially LP/SLP/EP which sound muffled on their linear mono head deck will sound considerably clearer. Many which sound only moderately muffled on a mono playback head will likely be reproduced with little or no HF loss on a linear stereo head. Speaking of relevence to the original post, the Sony SLV-R1000 SVHS deck may have this linear stereo AC head. But this information isnt always made clear in owners' and service manuals. If I was searching for a VHS VCR with good linear audio especially for LP/SLP/EP recordings but could not tweak the internal AC head azimuth I would be looking at a good quality deck with a stereo linear audio head. Unfortunately in video digitizing discussions this factor is rarely if ever mentioned. What would help people choose a suitable VCR for digitizing their tapes and who cared about audio quality is a list all the quality VHS machines which have the stereo linear AC head. Especially so for the LP/EP/SLP recordings. This factor could be incorporated into existing lists. |
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I much prefer these discussions to include sharing of actual audio and video examples. So trying to lead by example here.
I may have shared this audio before. LP mono linear original audio, captured with mono linear head, custom azimuth aligned by ear. Being a PAL recording this LP track runs at even slower tape speed than NTSC LP. Actually a quarter the speed of a standard compact audio cassette. This is from a roughly 6 hour long VHS E 180 tape. No audio processing/ restoration used here. Straight off the tape. Is azimuth alignment critical here? Is the Pope a Catholic? |
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https://youtu.be/0XMh7NKjzng?si=Q4kVEfZAmbO36A5z |
radiocom, I've been puzzling over various things you've said about azimuth in this thread, and wondering if there is a simple solution here.
Is it possible your VCR has only mono linear audio, not stereo? |
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radiokom, in your post #29 above you cited a Richard Hess article: "Azimuth: Hows and Whys." Thankyou. I reread it.
You might care to read Richard's first paragraph, which I have copied here. "There is a recurring question as to what is the best way to set azimuth for playing a tape. Many people assume that using the test-tape alignment is best. Well, that makes another big assumption: The recorder used a proper test tape alignment. While that can be the case, it usually is not. If the tape has tones on it (a big if in many collections), you align to that, right? Better, but consider this: When a 1963 album was being remastered, the mastering engineer aligned to the tones and after doing all his magic found that the tones were not recorded at the same azimuth as the program. Big redo! Aligning to the track material itself is the only way to properly adjust azimuth in the absence of tones and it is still necessary to check the track material even if there are tones. The wider the track and the slower the speed, the more critical the azimuth adjustment is. Stereo makes it more critical and often times easier to adjust..." * author Richard L. Hess, Audio tape restoration, Canada *(My underlining). |
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This for example: If you have a mono tape, that’s all you have, but if you have a stereo or multi-track tape, you can sum channels that have similar program on them that should be in phase and get a wider baseline for tweaking the azimuth. It seems that you simply consider your azimuth adjustment method to be correct and protest if anyone challenges it. ;) |
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P.S. I have few professional Panasonic with stereo linear audio and Dolby B, but they "belongs to the museum" © :). P.P.S. Although - one idea came to my mind as a result of this controversy. To use a professional Panasonic with a stereo head for accurate determination of azimuth error. If until now I did it "by ear" on the NV-FS1 and then decided it worth alignment or not, then by playing a mono track on a VCR with a stereo linear audio head, the azimuth error can be determined in a few seconds using the phase spectral display. And then decide there is a reason to mess with adjustment or better to leave it alone. |
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