Ringing sound in audio?
 

Does anyone know what could be causing the buzzing in the background audio here?

It doesn't exactly drown out the sound and in low levels you can pretty much ignore it, but in moderately high volume, it's distracting. Almost like you have tinnitus.

Some tidbits that might help in identifying the problem:

1. This sound only happens when playing the tape on my JVC HR-S5912U. When I swap out the AG-1980P (exact same workflow - cables, DMR-ES10, etc.) it doesn't have this noise.

2. I tried turning the audio to NORMAL instead of HI-FI and it still has the same issue. Not sure if setting it to MIX will change anything.

3. Tried other tapes with the JVC and it doesn't have that buzzing noise.

4. Trying to remove this using AI denoisers mostly end up with audio that sounds like it's buried underground, so that's not an option.

As always, thanks in advance for the help!

The tape sounds like a linear recording, not HiFi.

Probably the JVC VCR has noisy linear audio. We've had other reports of this on the forum at times.

Attached spectrum display. All those orange horizontal lines represent tones or whistles that the VCR is probably adding.

My JVC S-VHS VCR also has unusually bad-sounding linear audio, especially at EP speed. Muffled, lots of hiss, and high-frequency whistling ("birdies"). But hi-fi audio sounds fine at any speed.

What I hear here is a high-pitched noise that was likely present in the original recording. The JVC mono playback might be emphasizing it, but I doubt it wasn't there. The audio is really nice and rich, which is not typical of mono. Linear audio, in general, tends to be muffled, especially on camcorder tapes, or tapes recorded on cheap VCRs.

Certain JVC deck models (most HR-Sxxxx) are known for adding noise. But it's not often the fault of the VCR, or the VHS, but rather a bad combination. In many cases, it can be tweaked by adjusting the audio heads, but that's a dangerous game for the unskilled. It's way too easy to know a deck fully out of alignment on those heads, and then it won't play well at all.

There's no "always better" decks either. While AG-1980P can be better, it can also be worse. I often run into that issues, and have for many years now.

Essentially, welcome to VHS. :)

Yes but even at its best, the linear track is considerably noisier than the HiFi track. It gets weaker and less expansive on the slower LP speed and even worse at the even slower SLP/EP.

Sometimes as in the OP's example the highest frequencies are too high for the linear track to have recorded them, so these frequencies cannot have been introduced at the record stage. They must be related to the playback including the VCR and external digitizing gear.

If there's a HiFi track recorded and it plays well, we use it, obviously. But sometimes the linear track is the only sound track recorded and we have to use that. There are techniques to optimise playback of these weaker audio tracks to get the best out of them, as we sometimes discuss on this forum.

This video has a comparison of how an early 2000s JVC S-VHS VCR and a late 1990s Panasonic VHS VCR, both consumer-grade models, handle linear mono audio on an LP recording made on a 1987 Goldstar VCR.

You can almost completely ignore the visual aspect; it is terrible because I was a n00b at making videos back in 2009, used crap equipment (a 1990s Matrox TV tuner/capture card that used an obsolete, proprietary MJPEG codec and obviously lacked a TBC), and uploaded it without de-interlacing it -- but the audio comparison remains valid:
Panasonic vs. JVC VCR comparison

This will always be correct. It's inherent to the technology. The only exception would be if the source track, recorded into HiFi, was subpar. In a vacuum, HiFi will always outperform in clarity. And in practice, it does just that. HiFi wasn't just marketing BS, for once tech lived up to the hype. 80s tech often did that for us..

Ehh... Hmmm... Merits further study, further clarification...

Linear shouldn't have a ceiling on the frequency, at least not that is detectable on VHS. But I will agree that most noise is introduced at VCR and capture -- or wiring, or even external interference. That's why gear/hardware is so important, using right software is so important

I wrote Sound Forge filter presets over a decade ago, and several are called "Mono Restore". Those essentially shift frequency, most;y to recover highs and enrich mids.

This is not correct.

In the mid 90s to early 2000s, JVC wanted to cater to (market to) the tape hobby crowd. The VHS hobby crowd was growing in the late 90s, and the VHS tape trading scene was big. Many of those tape hobbyists were video pros by day, video hobby by night. That's precisely how I met who I did, and learned what I did, all those years ago.

JVC uses the term "prosumer", because many of the decks function well both for the high-end hobby wants, and the day-job professional needs. In the 90s, the so-called "pro" decks were editing VTRs, the "big bertha" decks that people mistakenly buy (and almost never work well, or at all). By the late 90s, editing wasn't linear anymore, but non-linear on computers. So the "pro" aspect didn't require editing function, only recording and playback.

The lower-end S-VHS were recording decks, the higher-end (with TBCs) were for playback.

That was the ecosystem until around '07, when the worldwide economy started to crack. After the GFC (great financial crisis, ~'07-09), analog video hardware was in shambles. We were mostly left with some Funai crap, and it ended with a whimper into the early '10s. See also why TBCs sourced new chips that were faulty, old fab line shuttered.

By all rights, JVC with-TBC are indeed "professional" decks. In fact, the HR-S7800U is essentially identical to the SR-V10U. (I say "essentially" because the load motor was different, and the V10 motor was a POS that has almost universally failed in 99% of units now, no replacements to be had.)
- the 7800 = prosumer
- the V10 = "Professional"
- But really the same deck, no material differences. It's all marketing.

In the 90s, Matrox cards were high-end, especially MJPEG (and later MPEG-2) models. Although, yeah, using that gear in '09 made no sense, totally obsolete tech. Although, honestly, probably still better than DV boxes, used properly.

I don't really here a large difference there. The source tape has hiss, the end. (I had to skim the video, I just don't have time to watch full Youtube video, when I just need a few seconds of clips to hear.)

Can you offer reasons for that claim re Disharmony's upload (post #1)?

30+ years of experience.
Keyword = "likely", as I cannot be 100% sure with the available information. But greater than 50/50 odds. Confident enough to make the statement.

I just got a 2003 JVC S-VHS/DVD combo unit for $7 at the thrift store. When I get a chance I'll see if it has the same crappy linear audio as my other JVC, which is definitely not a "prosumer" model in any way, shape, or form. Its flimsy all-plastic cabinet reminds me of one of the "last gasp" Funai VCRs that K-Mart sold for $19.99. This combo unit at least has a metal cabinet -- such luxury!

Always remember that condition matters. Be very objective with "new" (to you) gear, second-guess yourself that it could be a condition issue, not a model-wide issue.

I'm often quite thankful that I owned a lot of gear when new, or acquired it a decade or two ago from the original owner. That's an advantage that I sometimes have, having see the gear in proper-functioning mint condition. I can definitely tell that some of my gear has degraded in the past 10-20-30 years, even with proper maintenance.

That's why we get so many fake "comparisons" now. It's their unit(s) condition, nothing more.

Hi Disharmony, thanks for your post. Only a few of us have been commenting here, which unfortunately is not unusual for audio related topics. Unfortunately too we only have the upload from your JVC deck so are unable to hear the comparison you can hear so it's hard to be definite about what's going on. Would you mind uploading an audio sample of the same section of tape but as played on your Panasonic deck? Then we can compare and contrast the two playbacks and hopefully offer some constructive comments.

Cheers,

Tim

Hey thanks Tim! Sorry if I'm just quietly observing the discussion ongoing here.

But yeah, a clip of the same scene from the Panasonic would have been helpful. I've attached it here.

Thanks Disharmony, I've taken the liberty of putting one after the other and matching them for basic loudness.

Interesting comparing the two. While the horizontal orange parallel lines at the top (high frequency tones) are there in the JVC (left) but missing in the Panny capture (right), there are a lot more musical high frequencies in the Panny capture in that same high frequency area. If the tones had been recorded on the tape, you'd expect them to be reproduced in both playbacks, and if anything much stronger in the Panny playback since the Panny audio is much stronger in that same band. Even in the relative quiet in the first second of the Panny capture, where you'd expect to hear and see them, there's no hint of tones.

So I'm more confident now that these tones in the JVC were probably generated by something at time of playback and digitizing, such as the VCR, capture hardware or perhaps interference from other electronic gear in the room at the time of capture.

But I'm still a bit puzzled by the Panny capture if it really is a linear track as the high frequencies in the music are strong right up to 15 kHz or so, which is almost too good to be true for a linear track.
Do you understand there can be two separate audio tracks on VHS tapes, both a linear track and a HiFi track? If both track types are recorded on the tape, which is quite common, is it possible you had the JVC switched for linear (normal) audio when capturing, but the Panny was switched to HiFi? Usually it's possible to switch tracks at the VCR's remote.