JVC 9600 edit or normal
Hi,
I'm playing my JVC HR 9600 into a canopus 110 to capture vhs and s vhs using sony vegas in my PC. I've already done four hours of tape using the "auto" mode for playback in the deck. I've read that "edit" mode would be better for playback. It would be sharper. I'm not getting any noise using edit mode. Or NORMAL MODE It looks similar,maybe a bit more detail. Do you think I need to redo the first tapes that I ran into the PC in auto mode over, or do you think the difference is minimal. both look pretty good. But I would really love to know what you pro's think. Will it make that much difference. Haven't really started to compare the results. Posted elswhere and got different opinions, what do you think? THANKS |
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This is where a device like a Vidicraft sharpener or SignVideo sharpener comes in as it offers two advantages: First off, you don't have to disengage the JVC filter set just to increase the appearance of sharpness, and second the device allows for a highly variable range of adjustment, instead of a "sharp/not sharp" toggle switch that people use edit mode for. In my experience, edit mode works fine on tapes that are low noise and low motion, but you should use your eyes and a BIG and unforgiving screen to compare the two and see what you like better for tapes that are more noisy from a normal viewing distance. Are you working with commercial tapes or home movies/TV recordings? |
best mode for capture
The video was shot on a pansonic ag 450 and 460. Some stuff was edited using pro equipment onto S vhs. Mostly fuji pro tapes.
The tapes look pretty noise free but there is jitter on some. JVC recomends you use the normal mode without the TBC on with the stabalizer on. That's what the manual says about PC capture and the 9600 playback. I see good results, but I am monitoring through a toshiba DVD recorder into a CRT televison. I can also see the screen in Vegas. I Don't see the TBC being on making that much difference but on some tapes it did help with jitters. I left the TBC on and used the edit mode so far and it looks pretty good becuase there is not a lot of noise. On other forums many people swear by the edit mode but the infamous Lord Smurf says not to use it. Like you say, one should make use of the filters. Normal with the calibration OFF and stabalizer on and TBC off or Edit mode with TBC on. I'd like to make the best choice. Thanks! |
Sounds like pretty good looking stuff, not your typical run of the mill tape.
With the VHS tapes I’ve done (no SVHS mind you) the stabilizer did nothing for me. On one of my decks it often caused problems with the image (change in color, weird jitter) and on the other deck it didn’t appear to do anything. It's been known to cause issues, so as a general principal I usually leave it off on my deck, but experiment with it if you like. Tapes that play with a lot of jitter like that are either best captured in another VCR altogether, or making a first run with the TBC on, stabilizer off, then going over it, identifying the jittery parts, then recording those parts with the TBC off, and editing it all together. Well, if your output now and forever will be a CRT, then whatever is pleasing to your eyes might be best. Keep in mind though; the display devices of the future are not likely to be so forgiving to footage of this quality, so I would test your work in both modes on an LCD just to see if it makes a difference in perceived detail/noise. The problem at heart is that not every setting is appropriate for every tape. Trying to pin down one universal setting to do your tapes with will be elusive. If you don’t want to be dissatisfied with future captures, then record a little and test it out. Then record a little more. It’s like the old programmers adage “code a little, test a lot”. In the end though, you should trust your eyes. Just make sure you are keeping an eye to the future and forming some basis for comparison. |
Also, just wanted to add, that jitter is really a separate issue. Tackling that is another thing all together, because tapes can jitter in ANY of the modes and settings. The TBC on can create it's own jitter, the TBC off can reveal wavy lines, the stabilizer on can create it's own weird jitter/motion. You will have to decide at some point how much of a perfectionist you want to be about it. If you can't live with it at all, then you're going to need to sharpen up your editing tools and filters to tackle it in other ways.
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What am I using this for?
Some will be for DVD. Hopefully a home DVD release. It's comedy stuff.
I will want to burn good looking DVD's to play on newer tV's A lot of it will be for online broadcast, youtube etc. So I will be rendering it in several formats. I'm not looking for network quality because I didn't start with that type of equipment. Another note: If you know how the panisonic AG450 (the reporter) video camera shoots vhs and especially S VHS videos in what has a very soft look. Not like harsh bad digital video. Many people think it looks like film. It's already pretty soft and that's why I don't think it needs to be any "softer" Sometimes the reds come out in peoples faces, but perhaps I can correct that I Vegas. Thanks a lot for the help! |
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Now if you start copying worn and/or old tapes then you should see a definite difference while checking between edit and normal picture settings. Actually I think JVC recommends edit for the picture control while copying but as robjv mentioned, it really depends tape to tape. Infamous Lord Smurf? He knows his stuff as well as the other pros on this site. His logic is foolproof IMO, as he has mentioned before, why bother owning a VCR that has picture controls only to use edit all the time. May as well buy a cheap VCR and do all copying with it. The picture controls are tools to be used as needed and turned off if the situation warrants. I tried auto mode and didn't like it at all so for me as instructed on this forum, I turn off stabilizer then the normal picture control is available. About the red faces, get a proc amp. |
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If you are satisfied with your captures of these tapes in edit mode, then there is nothing wrong with that I say. Sometimes it really is the best mode and your footage sounds in pristine shape. If the difference with the TBC is engaged is subtle, then why not? Just don't forget your VCR has other picture options when you move onto other tapes. I tend to like my video a little "sharper" than many, but I've learned to go much easier on it than I used to, because it's SO easy to sharpen to the point where you add noise and kill the encoder. I switched decks from JVC SR-V101US (we'll call it a less well built cousin of most of the JVC 9000 series) to the JVC SR-W5U deck, because the transport is much more stable (effectively reducing the sometimes annoying jitter) and the baseline picture is more to my liking in terms of sharpness, but YMMV. It's all about finding the balance you like. I started out WAY over-sharpening and preferred the look but now when I look back at my early captures and how ugly they were... I'm glad I kept the tapes, so I could redo them :p |
At least 9 times out of 10, I would echo my comment from VH:
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But I also completely agree with this: Quote:
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Getting back to the issue, if this is vertical "bouncing" type jitter, there may be nothing that can be done. The JVC stabilizer may fix it, but probably not. A TBC-1000 may reduce it, but maybe not. It may require VirtualDub + deshaker with vertical correction tweaks to correct. That's challenege, too, however. I just finished two projects like this -- what I'd easily call a "testing hell" scenario, where you spend more time tweaking the deshake settings that actually deshaking the entire video. Vertical jitter is not an easy flaw to fix. Wavy loss-of-timing (timebase) horizontal jitter, on the other hand, is simply a matter of a good TBC and/or frame sync, and you're good to go. That could be a JVC S-VHS VCR, or a Panasonic ES10 as passthrough. Quote:
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Good luck! :) |
Thanks L.S
Your help has been very beneficial in reaching my goals in converting these important tapes to digital formats.
These were all shot with those Panisonic video cameras and for playing them back for capture the...... EDIT MODE w TBC on has worked best. In the US back when S VHS was a common format for so many mid level video people working with weddings and affairs shot on those cameras, so I would think more people would know what kind of camera master SVHS signal those cameras would put out. Since you know so much about decks you must know about VIDEO cameras from those days. (AG 450) The tapes that had jitter were from the camera, although some were from edited versions (maybe those tapes went bad). I don't know! But I got enough footage to use. The JVC deck I got on your advise I'm very happy with. Much appriciated. |
I feel better that you said "leave the TBC ON"
TBC ON FOR CAPTURE
IT has helped. Has not distorted capture as the JVC documentation says. I'm glad you reputied thier manuel. (how could a big company (JVC) put out worng techincal info ?) The TBC on has helped with the playback (on my tapes) and not harmed the PC capture.....as they said it would/could? Nuff Said Thanks! |
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In those days, I was still purely hobby, so I had time to do what I wanted like that, not always rushed to finish this production or that project. |
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