JVC HR-S7000U - could use some advice on servicing mine
 

I have a "vintage" JVC HR-S7000U unit that has some "issues" ...

I'm not able to service it myself (see below), and so I plan to take it to a JVC-authorized service center near me, but when I PM'd another member on here yesterday about its symptoms, he recommended that I post them to the forum for your advice ...

Since I can't really do anything to it myself, I'm not quite sure what question(s) I'm "asking" here, but I could certainly use
any comments/advice that anyone might have ... Thanks!

Kevin

the PM:

McCoy: "Captain...?"
Kirk: "Kirk here..."
McCoy: "He's dead, Jim."

Seriously, nothing from that descriptoin sounds good, or even worth a repair.
I would wait until you get the SR-V10U. I have a feeling you have no qualms about retiring the ancient VCR for good.

...

Side Question: Is there a certain reason that
you've posted to narrow little columns just
like this sentence? Is there something wrong
with the site we should know about? Or maybe
you're using it from a phone? You're the second
person to do that this week. It actually makes
threads harder to read, and it confuses search
engines.

Wow, really? It's that bad? Not even worth repairing? At the risk of sounding like an idiot, lordsmurf -- why not?

Sorry, lordsmurf ... I've gotten into the habit of trying to format my text "perfectly" within the box provided -- and the box provided for PM's is even smaller than that for posts .... (I believe the "narrow little columns just like that sentence" resulted from my posting a PM above) ...

But your points are well-taken, and I'll try to remember to post in "free form" from now on ...

Kevin

P.S. OK, now that I've posted this, I see that you've already fixed it above (and elsewhere) ... Sorry for making you do that ...

because lordsmurf is likely to be one of those types of people (there are PLENTY of them out there, too) that happens to feel that pretty much any piece of CE gear out there of pre-1995 vintage is not worth any consideration save for what garbage dump to send it on to. :)

seriously, though, how much use have you put into your 7000U in the past? is it actually possible (highly unlikely) that the controls are all worn out?

more realistically, i cannot seem to figure how your 8000U's deck controls can be all inoperable like that, save for the leads from the front panel PCBs and the thin ribbon cable for the flip-down control panel all being loose/disconnected/severed/etc.

one thing i CAN say though, is that most/all of your transport related issues should be cured by a good fresh mechanism lubrication, and perhaps a new set of transport rubber (idler tire/two loading belts) as well.

i can't imagine any way of figuring your front panel control issue out without opening her up to have a look at things. if you do not feel that you could do that comfortably, then indeed, you should by all means take it to that service shop of yours...

It's simply an issue of the SR-V10U being a known-better performer for high quality playback of VHS, when all aspects are considered. Some of the old 1980s and early 1990s VCRs are reported to excel in certain areas, whereas newer models are maybe lesser performing in those areas, but the overall quality is far superior on something like an SR-V10U.

I don't know how long you may have followed my video-related postings online (as they go all the way back to the newsgroups era in the mid 1990s), but I've been at this for a while. When I started, there was no SR-V10U, D-VHS, SR-W5U, etc. JVC put a lot of effort into the 3600+/9500+ generations of equipment, so there really wasn't a reason to buy pre-9500 used gear for lower costs. The SR-V10U is the fruits of HR-S9600 ancestry.

I've seen quite a few so-called "wonderful" JVC VCRs through the years, including W-VHS and D-VHS gear, and I passed on all of it. The D-VHS is a good substitute for S-VHS, when found for a good deal, while the W-VHS has issues that make it a money pit. I often think the fan base for vintage VCRs are a bit revisionist (as in "revisionist history") to a degree, as I was there, and I didn't see the miraculous picture quality that is sometimes touted. What I remember are VCRs with problems, and imperfect video quality. In fact, I have relationships with a number of studios (small and large) and broadcast engineers (TV and cable), and we tend to all have the same opinions on VCRs, since we've been heavy users for 15+ years. We understand the niche benefits of certain older gear, but also understand that it's not something we'd ever suggest for general use -- NEVER as a main VCR. if you have a specific need for that specific quality niche, then sure, buy one of the special VCRs (and ALSO accept the limitations it has).

Yes, please take no offense to my question, it's simply an issue that's been observed by Site Staff recently, and it's not yet apparent if there's a problem that needs fixing. What operating system and web browser (including version) are you using? Even if you were hitting ENTER/RETURN at the end of each line in the reply box, it should not be that narrow. So something may not be parsing correctly in the code, on a certain OS/browser version.

We'll fix it, if we know about it. :thumb:

Well, that's certainly not true. :p

I've triaged and resuscitated CE and pro gear well beyond its shelf life, including 1970s VCRs, film cameras, video cameras, and even computer equipment. But at some point, these can become too dated for general use. The best LP players are from the 80s. I still have 8-track players AND 8-track recorders INCLUDING the blank tapes! Note that I also recommend older Vidicraft gear for composite video work, and it's all from the 1980s.

The wiring simply goes bad. I've had this happen on more devices than I can even count, from car stereo internals to s-video cables to IDE cables to VCRs. Some can be repaired, some cannot (lack of parts or cascading damage). Wires carry current, and they'll simply fry themselves out. The AG-1980P VCR is infamous for this. I've seen a JVC HR-S3800U, HR-S7600U and SR-V10U where the push button controls have worn due to either wiring or the internalized buttons wearing.

Possibly, yes. That and realignment. The issue comes with parts availability. By the time you spent all those funds, the time, etc, you could have just as easily been using a newer VCR and be well into the actual video work. Let's be honest -- fixing VCRs sucks. Most of my 2011 has been spent servicing computers, video gear and photo equipment. I'm at least a month behind schedule on where I'd really like to be with my actual video work.

If newkt already owns this VCR, I suggest it be set into a closet for later. Get the new VCR, start the project. If you don't like what you see, then look at spending the time/funds on the old VCRs. If the newer VCR is giving you acceptably high quality playback and you're satisified, then consider selling the old VCR on the digitalFAQ.com marketplace. Definitely do not trash it -- it belongs with an owner that needs it, not in the bottom of a landfill.

I'm not saying to never fix it, I'm saying "not now". :)

Thanks, Tasuke! I don't know why lordsmurf says it's "dead, Jim" -- I've been waiting for a reply ...

I don't think I used to use the HR-S7000U all that much, so I'd be surprised if the controls are all worn out ... I've read elsewhere online (from a JVC service tech) about the ribbon cable to the flip-down control panel, so I'm guessing that that's the problem with that ...

The other deck controls on the left side actually did work -- intermittently! -- when I first started using it the other day, but now they don't seem to work at all ... So perhaps "dodgy" connections there? (Whereas the flip-down panel controls didn't work from the start) ...

I also figured that the transport-related issues have something to do with -- at a minimum -- insufficient lubrication and/or brittle rubber parts ... That makes perfect sense to me (unlike the control-button issues?), given its age and inactivity -- rather like a car's engine and tires ...

Now you've really made me curious!!! I'm not afraid to open 'er up and "see what I can see" -- after all, I think the warranty's probably expired by now? :D

I'll report back later today -- possibly with pix, if I see anything "interesting" ... :cool:

Kevin

P.S. Oops, thanks, lordsmurf! I guess we were both replying at the same time there ... I'll ponder what you've written ... :)

Part of this also comes back to the primary goal of The Digital FAQ, when it comes to how we operate on the forum, our philosophy. We don't believe in giving out generic advice, but advice that is tailored-made TO YOU SPECIFICALLY, especially for our Premium Members. Based on the conversations so far, I don't get the impression that this VCR would best fit newkt's needs. Yes, we could tell him how to fix it, where to go, etc -- but it really comes back to "Does he really need this specific VCR to accomplish what he wants to do?"

Sometimes the best answer to a question is to punt. Change topic. Make counter suggestions.

I'm reminded of an article on malpractice I read some years ago. The patient had severe groin pain on a daily basis, and rather than the doctor attempting to discover the cause, his idea of a solution was to neuter the man to make the pain end. As it turned out, the patient was simply wearing underwear that was too tight -- he needed a larger size. (What I no longer remember is if this was learned before or after the neutering! YIKES!)

So answering the question isn't always the best way to address an issue.
In this thread, "How do I service this VCR?" was replied to with "Don't."

Tasuke disagrees with Site Staff -- but that's also welcomed and encouraged. Good to have multiple views. :)

And from what I've already read in this forum, I totally agree! :) And that's the reason I ordered the SR-V10U in the first place -- for its strong recommendation in the "VCR Buying Guide"; for its line-TBC/DNR capabilities (coupled with a CTB-100 that's also on the way); and for its picture quality ...

Even Tasuke has admitted in several places that the beloved 7000 and 8000 models aren't really "up to snuff" for serious archival work ...

I guess I was thinking of 2 reasons for fixing my old HR-S7000U:

1. It was the original VCR used to record all of my S-VHS tapes (a few) and most/all of my VHS tapes (a bunch), so it might be able to perform better than the SR-V10U on "certain" tapes? (As yet TBD) ...

2. I've started to get kind of "nostalgic" for it after putting it into action again, and I'd just "like" to see it working again ... (I know -- pretty lame) ...
It was my very first VCR of any kind when I bought it in 1989 (for $700+, as I recall) ... Back then. I was also buying my very first TV --a 27" Hitachi tube
(also for $700+), which I'm still using! -- and I just wanted the "best" VCR and TV that I could possibly afford (~$1500 for both) ... So -- nostalgia ... :rolleyes:

I"m using Windows 7 Ultimate (64-bit) SP1 with Firefox 3.6.17, and yes, I was hitting ENTER at the end of each line ... The width of the reply box on my 1280x720 (16:9) screen is about the length of the following text (and the PM box is smaller):

"Yes, please take no offense to my question, it's simply an issue that's been"

Fair enough, lordsmurf -- but I still might open 'er up and "see what I can see", just for grins ...

And as for selling it someday, I've already promised Tasuke "first dibs" on it ... ;)

Kevin

P.S. Thanks, all, for the interesting and informational replies to my original post! :)

Possibly, yes! So that's a valid reason to consider a repair. See how the SR-V10U treats the tapes, and then consider repairing the original VCR. However, note that a realignment may destroy how well the unit works with tapes it created, if it was off/misaligned when it did the recordings. So you can fix a VCR, only to "break" how it works with the tapes it made -- thus creating a Catch-22 mess. You fixed it to work with the tapes, but now that it's fixed it won't work with the tapes! (Can you see why VCRs are so maddening yet!?)

Here's the big question: SP mode, LP mode, or SLP (now EP) mode?

I'll see about widening the reply box.

Hmmm ... Well, I had no idea before, but now I'm starting to see ... :rolleyes: ... Is it possible to just leave the alignment alone?

I don't know yet, because not a one of them is actually labeled! (Very bad habit of mine ... :()

But I'm guessing there's a lot of SLP/EP in the mix there?

Just don't do it on my account, 'cuz I've been converted!!! :D

Kevin

i don't see how a VCR's mecha alignment needs to be futzed with, as any quality VCR is designed to hold it's factory alignment indefinitely.

perhaps, if one wanted to use VCR-A to playback/archive an entire library of cassettes made on VCR-B that the user no longer owns, and that VCR-B's particular alignment was so far off of what VCR-A is set to, that VCR-A must be re-aligned and calibrated to track VCR-B's recordings.

is that REALLY THAT common of a problem?

i sure haven't encountered it enough to bother me, and i've got recordings as far back as the mid/late 1980's, recorded on my mother's long out of commission, but still in possession 1986/1987 HITACHI linear stereo VCR, a VT-1570A or something to that effect;

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...I/VT-1570A.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l.../VT-1570A6.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l.../VT-1570A8.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...VT-1570A13.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...VT-1570A12.jpg

my mother even kept the 1987 newspaper insert from "TOM PETERSON'S" (a PORTLAND, OR. local AUDIO/VIDEO/FURNITURE dealer) that was making a production out of their "Annual HITACHI SPRING SPECTACULAR" in which all of their HITACHI products were on sale, including that VCR, for a mind-blowingly low-ball $670 and change...

a year or two back, i pulled that gawdawful thing out of storage and attempted to resuscitate it, to no reliable avail, as i soon discovered that mid/late 80's HITACHI VCR mechanisms are about the worst ever designed, a HIDEOUSLY complicated mecha, using damned near a dozen belts and weirdly laid out in an overly complex fashion in order to make everything fit in the VCR's overly small enclosure.

i'll never let this VCR go, as it was a strong fixture of my childhood, and as such, highly sentimental, but nevertheless, it's got to be one of the worst VCR designs i've ever seen to date...

For Tasuke:

I took off the cover and unhooked the front panel, hoping to find something "obviously wrong" (like a severed ribbon cable) -- but I didn't ...

Anyway, here's the pix, scaled down (for posting) from their original 2250x1520 size -- not that you can actually tell anything from them ...

(Hmmm ... Judging from the attachment file sizes, they also got compressed by another 50% in the upload process ... Oh well) ...

Attachment 1487

Attachment 1488

Attachment 1489

Kevin

thanks, what a treat!! :)

any way that you can send me unaltered, full-size copies of those pics?

JVC HR-S7000U (1987)
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...S7000Uint1.jpg

JVC HR-S8000U (1988)
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...HR-S8000U7.jpg

the 7000U chassis appears to be a fair bit shallower (DEPTH) than the HR-S8000U.

the boards directly aft of the FL display fit into the chassis in a nice vertical row, as opposed to the 8000U's boards stacked flat one on top of the other.

there is a large, black-anodized, extruded aluminum heat sink to the rear there that is completely nonexistent on the 8000U.

3/4 of the left side depth (front of VCR facing you) on the 8000U is taken up by the DIGITAL EFFECTS module, a single PCB completely sheathed in steel shielding. this does not exist, of course, on the 7000U, as that model lacks DIGITAL FX of any kind.

i have always wondered if both of the BRAKE PADS for the REEL SPINDLES were original, each is molded of a different color of plastic, the left one white, the right gray.

as you can see, your 7000U is IDENTICAL there, which means that my 8000U is most likely running (PERFECTLY, at the moment) on it's original set of pads.

so you pulled the front bezel module, and disconnected both of those white ribbon leads directly aft of the FL display? i can see that the 7000U uses a pair of opaque white ribbons, completely different from the single transparent amber extra-thin ribbon used on the 8000U.

come to think of it, i believe i recall hearing on a forum once, from a veteran retired ex-service tech, that supposedly, JVC purposefully changed ribbon types between the 7000U and 8000U, due to reliability issues with the 7000U due to those ribbons. that sure would explain your balky control panel.

you should check both ends of those ribbons; perhaps there is a faulty connection with one or both of them at the front panel PCB ends...

You betcha! They'll be on their way to you in a few minutes -- exactly as they came off the camera ... And I can take more pix of specific areas if you like ...

I unhooked the front bezel module and pulled it out about an inch -- which was as far as the connected wires (not ribbon cables) would allow it to go --
but I didn't disconnect anything ... Those two opaque white ribbons are still connected at both ends, I believe -- and I'll double-check that in a moment ...

Here's the first post by the ex-service tech in the thread you're probably referring to:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...1&postcount=10

Kevin

P.S. BTW, Tasuke, I believe your photo there is wider than the prescribed 850 pixels ... :cool:

You can upload larger images to the forum, inside a ZIP or RAR. (We don't want wide images creating scroll bars on pages, which is why everything is resized to 850px max width.) Also please keep images on-site, as sites like Photobucket will delete your images eventually, and in the long-term these threads will become useless without the illustrative images for future readers. We try to archive information here forever, and storing it all on-server is the only way to see that this happens.

All of this is explained here: How to Upload/View/Download Images+Attachments

Thanks. :)

okay, thanks!

i'm a PHOTOBUCKET PRO subscriber, so all my pics should theoretically be immune to any big-brother deletion, but i'll be uploading them to here directly from now on...

yep, that's the post!!

i think you should go ahead and disconnect those two white ribbons from the chassis-mounted PCB side and reseat them to see if that has any effect.

it's quite easy to do, and just MIGHT be your problem, if the physical integrity of the cables themselves are fine.

i've actually pulled and dismantled the front bezel modules of both my HR-S8000U and HR-D630U, both models sharing the 7000U-style front bezel in common.

i mostly did this, in order to reach, and clean, the glass FL display tube and it's associated front panel FL window from the inside, as VCR FL tubes and their windows have a tendency to collect dust and filth from the inside after 15/25+ years, and JVC S7000 family models are no exception.

do this, and your VCR's FL is virtually guaranteed to look crisp and clear like it never did before when there was two decades worth of crap fogging it over...

Oh, if only that were the case! But sadly, it is not. Gravity alone alters alignment over time, as the internals of a VCR settle through the years. Every use of a VCR causes wear to both the VCR and the tape, and that includes the positioning of everything in the transport.

Well, that is one method (and the reason for the method) of realignment.

Yes. Significantly. I see thousands of videos every year, and no two tapes ever act the same. The recording decks, even the ones that make so-called "professional pre-recorded" tapes, vary in alignment. And thus, so do the tapes they make, often making playback a scream-worthy chore. There's actually several new guides being written this week and next, on this very topic. (On the still-hidden next-gen version of digitalFAQ.com, meaning these will be visible on release day in June.)

Very lucky, you are! :cool:

It sounds a lot like the 1981 Magnavox. Ugh. What a beast. :(

Sorry to break topic, but this sounds too much like my house....one big sucker to gravity. Ok, as you were..

:cool:

JVC problems: Power Supply related?
 

After reading through the present thread I found this, not related to your particular model but is generic to any vcr so might be of help. The advice on power supply electrolytics is very true, open or partially open caps can give an endless number of symptoms. I bought and am waiting for the last JVC SR-V10U from the person on eBay who was selling them for $49.95, keeping my fingers crossed in hopes that it's as good as he says they are! I got an AG-1980 through eBay a while ago, lots of white horizontal lines, I found so many open caps on the luminance/chroma board that I lost track of how many I had to replace. It did cure all video problems, and no not a single cap in the power supply needed replacing! If the JVC I'm waiting for has bad caps hopefully they are not surface-mounted.

http://www.tv-forums.com/forum/TV_Eq..._Issue_P57763/

Hey my 8000U has lots of streaks in the SVHS playback as well. Do you think it's the heads or caps in the boards? I bought it off eBay supposedly new never used for $390.

I can't give a real answer without checking the machine out (no I'm not trying to drum up business since I no longer do repairs for other people).

Unless your vcr has been really badly treated I doubt that its the video heads.

Yes, there is always the possibility of oc caps, as I said they can cause many symptons depending on which circuit they are in. The vcr power supply drives the entire machine, bad caps in the supply can give the appearence of more than one defect.

For myself, the first thing I'd do is to check the entire tape play path (meaning any part that the tape contacts in normanl operation). If you feel comfortable doing it, get a can of video head cleaner, do NOT spray the cleanser on any part of the machine, put some into a small container, dip q-tips into it and clean by hand, any dirt on the q-tip dump it and use another, you'll need several.

You can clean the upper video drum in this way also, make sure to keep the q-tips flooded with cleanser. When wiping the video drum be very careful not to draw the q-tips across the actual video or hi-fi heads, very delicate.

The best way to clean the individual drum heads is to again soak q-tips, then just touch each head gently, the fluid will leech out any build-up of dirt or oxide from between the head gap. Never use a horizontal or vertical wiping motion when cleaning the heads.

I've seen a few which had tape-surface particles in the head gaps which caused intermittant streaking and bright spots, probably due to causing momentary short-circuiting of the gaps.

Another way to clean tape path and heads is to use a brand new tape. Load the tape, put the machine into the slowest record speed, probably about 4 hours?, let it record for the full length of the tape. If this works the recording towards the end of tape should be clean. Yes, a new tape will lift a lot of crap of contact surfaces including head surfaces and also draw it out from between the gaps. If this doesn't work, well you've wasted a new tape, but you haven't wasted the vcr!

As I say, only if you feel comfortable, if not, give it to someone for servicing.

GREAT advice, thank you. :)

No, not Q-Tips! :eek::eek::eek:

"Q-Tip", the brand name of a cotton swab, is not made for cleaning electronics as found in a VCR. The cotton can and usually WILL damage the delicate ferrite heads on a VCR head drum. The cotton snags, pulls, and can slough off inside the VCR, causing far worse damage than anything you started with.

You want a non-cotton cleaning swab, made of either a foam or chamois material -- preferably chamois. These are easily found in stores like Microcenter or Fry's, or online at any number of vendors that carry enough electronics to also carry electronics cleaning supplies. For example, this 15-pack of chamois electronics swabs from Amazon for $9.50 + free shipping: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B0047Y5W62

Use 70% or better isopropyl "rubbing" alcohol as the cleaner, as applied to the swab.

There also should be NO SNAGS when cleaning. If there are, then you're either being to rough, or the heads are already damaged.

I damaged a VCR in the 1990s because I didn't know any better. Learn from my mistakes, don't repeat them. :cool:

I also find the JVC heads to be a bit more durable than others, which most likely contributes to their long life and respected status within the professional and amateur/hobby video communities.

So whatever happened with your HR S7000U? Did you end up getting it repaired at all? I still have my 8000U, hoping to get it repaired one day.... the player works fine on VHS tapes but SVHS tapes have those white streaks going across the image. I gotta admit, it is a nice machine, with alot more features than JVC's later machines.

Actually, I used Q-Tips on the heads and broke it ALL to hell!!! :eek:

Kidding, of course! Since I first posted this, I've picked up both an HR-S7000U and an HR-S8000U off of eBay, and I'm thinking of selling my original HR-S7000U "as is", for parts or for someone willing to fix it or whatever ... In any event, the cost of the working unit on eBay was almost surely less than the cost of repairing the original unit would've been (not to mention the hassle factor therewith) ...

Plus, shortly after I first posted this, I tried to contact the only authorized JVC service center within 50 miles of me -- calling on multiple days at various times of day -- and never could get ahold of them, which didn't exactly engender much confidence in me ...

Kevin

i've had complete success in cleaning both my SONY SL-2300 BETA and JVC HR-D630U's heads, using Q-TIPs SATURATED in iso. alcohol and lightly holding them to the drum whilst rotating it a few times.

perhaps i was simply lucky or something, but the results were, regardless, COMPLETELY SUCCESSFUL, resulting in clean, fully functional heads on a pair of disparate VCRs that before, clearly had very dirty heads and would not play anything back properly at all...

That's great news.

Glad you were able to clean your VCR's. These links have some good information on cleaning and other repairs on VCR's. You seem interested in learning more on the subject and they make good reading. Quite a few opinions/different methods on cleaning etc are given. Hope it's of some interest to you and others on the list!


http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/vcrfaq.htm

http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_vcrfaq1.html

http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_vc...tml#VCRFAQ_017

Hey everyone, since I am still trying to figure out why my JVC HR S8000U has the white streak problem, I also noticed that it doesn't like to rewind out of play mode all the time. Usually, I have to press the rewind button a few times for this to work. Interestingly enough, I stumbled upon a website that has parts for this machine: http://www.studiosoundelectronics.com/mbk-42.htm#chtp. The symptoms that I've been having seem to be the idler tire. Any 8000U owners had any problem like I have been having? The picture seems to be perfect on VHS tape but horrible on Super VHS tape with lots of streaks going through the image. I'd to get this 8000U working as she sure is a beauty and is also chuck full of many features that aren't seen on later Super VHS VCRs.

just picked two of these up, one to open, the other to keep sealed, exactly what i've been looking for!!

Attachment 1630

Attachment 1631

the seller, as of 7-16-11, has four copies left available;

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-JVC-ST-120-S...item4aacda13fe