digitalFAQ.com Forum

digitalFAQ.com Forum (https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/)
-   Capture, Record, Transfer (https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-capture/)
-   -   JVC HR-7600U problem with TBC turned on, tracking errors at top of screen (https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-capture/3237-jvc-7600u-problem.html)

rodbuilder 06-30-2011 09:24 AM

JVC HR-7600U problem with TBC turned on, tracking errors at top of screen
 
Just paid on paypal for premium member and hoping I can post this

I found a guy that had 2 JVC HR-7600U and got both for $200 shipped.. both arrived today with manual and 2 remotes. both seem fine and working great.. they came out of his editing shop and quite clean.. I also ordered a Vidicraft proc amp and it will arrive tomorrow.. paid $70 shipped.. looks like I am set.. they sure make a difference.. I have one problem..

it seems with the DIGITAL TBC/NR turned on most of the SP tapes play wonderfully.. but there are a few SP that have a 1 or 2 inch tracking issue at the top that flicks all away the cross of the screen.. I turn off DIGITAL TBC/NR and the tracking issue stops and the tape play fine.. but has the poorer quality since TBC is off.. I am hoping there is a fix or a setting to allow TBC to be on these few tapes to get them transferred to dvd.. Glad both remotes and 1 manual came with these VCR'S

can someone help me.. thank you
.

admin 06-30-2011 09:04 PM

Can you show an example still frame from the bad video?

It sounds like a complex timebase error that can only be corrected with specialty hardware -- namely the Panasonic ES10 as a passthrough device, or possibly some JVC D-VHS decks. The error is too severe and overpowers the JVC internal TBC. (External TBCs are more for stable sync, not image corrections, so those would not help either.)

If you only have a few tapes in this condition, it may be a wiser expense to just pay a professional video restoration service for the few tapes. It could cost the same, or possibly even less, than buying more hardware. Something to consider.

rodbuilder 06-30-2011 09:27 PM

that's what I was thinking... it seems like it is only on a certain tapes that were dubbed by my Govideo machine.. I got 2 what seems to be great clean HR-S7600U for $200 and a Vidicraft proc amp.. I really don't want to spend anymore.. the TBC works great with most tapes.. but there is 20 or so that I need to do that I may look at buying a AVT-8710 after I knock out the tapes that works fine with the TBC in the JVC'S.. I got a JVC DR-MV1 for $40 off of craigslist last night.. I tried everything and change4d settings and it seems like I will need to do a external TBC to do these tapes.. I know you have a lot of people to overlook.. but if you know any fisherman that would like to build their own fishing rod.. I would swap my product for hardware.. www.okierodbuildingtools.com

Thanks..

admin 06-30-2011 09:55 PM

Adding the PM text to this, as is has important details you left out of the thread:
Quote:

Hi Admin... I have a thread about my JVC 7600 with tracking problem... seem like it only my tapes I dubbed with my old Govideo deck from years ago... look at my thread right below the connector thread on the vidicraft proc amp... I sure hope there is a fix or a setting.. they track fine until I turn on TBC then I get a 1 or 2 inch tracing flicker at the top of the screen.. turn of TBC and the tape plays fine but I loose the quality from the TBC... ANY IDEAS
Thanks
Though I see it was later added:
Quote:

certain tapes that were dubbed by my Govideo machine
The VCR equipment manufactured by Go.Video was garbage. The dual decks, made for copying VHS to VHS inside a single unit, and often abused by bootleggers in the 1990s, had horrible timing problems. The tapes made on these decks were infamous among video traders and video collectors, because of the tearing problems found on the tapes.

Yes, the technical video term is "tearing" and is explained in detail in this post: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...html#post12058

There are only a few devices that are known to do well at removing tearing from VHS format video:
1. the Panasonic DMR-ES10 DVD recorder (used as passthrough device ONLY, not for recording, as the recording quality is lousy),
2. some of the JVC D-VHS decks, used either for playback or passthrough (unconfirmed on passthrough)

Your problem is typical of GoVideo created material.

rodbuilder 06-30-2011 10:18 PM

So if I turned off TBC on the JVC HR-S7600U and run it through a AVT-8710 I will likely have the same issue? so I need to locate a DMR-ES10S ?

I do have a panasonic DMR-EZ28 that is setting around... I suppose it's only the ES series.. These are old football games from when I was trading.. I have already started on the family video.. but I have 150 football games..

admin 06-30-2011 10:22 PM

If you have one "laying around" then there's no harm in trying it. :)

The AVT-8710 won't fix this error.

Turning off the JVC TBC will simply cause the VCR to ignore all timing errors, and give you a crummy standard consumer-grade VHS signal. It won't clean it up. It was the process of clean-up that truly revealed the error. In worst cases scenarios -- which I've seen MANY times from Go.Video tapes -- the tearing can happen even with a TBC off. Go.Video was awful when it came to tape duping, generally making errors more severe and compounded. A 3rd-generation copy was generally unviewable from a Go.Video deck, where two cheap VCRs would have yielded better quality at probably half the price.

The founders of this site have long warned others about the dangers of GoVideo decks, going back at least 10-15 years ago.

rodbuilder 06-30-2011 10:54 PM

well... the dmr-ez28 worked for about 30 seconds and then it starts tearing... I turn off TBC and they play fine... no tearing.. but as soon as I hit the TBC give it a bit and boom.. tearing starts.. this makes me sick because the 20 0r 30 of these I am doing are late 70's early 80's second or 3rd gen tapes.. these look awesome with the TBC on except for the tearing.. so it sounds like I am stuck doing them without TBC :( boy... that's sad...

Thank you for your help.. $20 bucks well spent..

sure wished there was a fix.. you think the ES will fix this?

admin 06-30-2011 11:02 PM

Maybe.
At this point, I'd have to have the actual tape to give a solid yes or no answer.

Just guessing, based on experience to date -- yes, it would generally work to fix the tape.

rodbuilder 06-30-2011 11:23 PM

one more question... do you or would you know anyone on the board that may have a ES and a JVC hr-s7600 or similar if I sent a couple of the tapes and could test.. or would that be to much hassle.. I would pay for the round trip.. let me know if I can post a question like that on the board..

kpmedia 06-30-2011 11:41 PM

Moved several posts, and merged them here in the capturing forum. I think the topics best belong here. :thumb:
..................................

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodbuilder (Post 16388)
Just paid on paypal for premium member

Thanks much for supporting the site. :)

Quote:

hoping I can post this
Absolutely.

Quote:

had 2 JVC HR-7600U and got both for $200 shipped
Good deal!

Quote:

ES and a JVC hr-s7600 or similar if I sent a couple of the tapes and could test.. or would that be to much hassle.. I would pay for the round trip
If you just want a quick analysis, that's not too much to ask. ES10 and SR-V10U here (latter version of HR-S7600U).

Quote:

let me know if I can post a question like that on the board..
You just did. :p

That reminds me of somebody I know.
Him: Can I ask a question?
Me: You just did.
Him: Well, then can I ask another question?
Me: You just did.
Him: No, seriously, can I ask you a question?
Me: No.
Him: .......
Me: Well ask the question already! Hahahaha...
Him: (asks question finally)

Ah, good times. :)

rodbuilder 07-01-2011 12:03 AM

I do appreciate the help.. the proc amp seems to be the bomb... I can adjust all away across the board.. So I assume it's working fine.. Thanks again for being patient..

rodbuilder 07-02-2011 12:50 AM

Admin.. I need to ask about how to set this up once I get a Panasonic DMR-ES10

JVC HR-S7600 > (with TBC OFF OR ON?) DMR-ES10 > PROC AMP > JVC DR-MV1

I guess my question is.. from the 7600U will I need to turn off TBC? if so.. will I need to put a external TBC in the chain?


I have about 8 games spread across 14 tapes.. I haven't found a DMR-ES10 yet.. but I am wondering if I have to turn off the TBC in the JVC to fix this..

Thank you

admin 07-02-2011 06:49 AM

JVC HR-S7600 (TBC OFF) > DMR-ES10 > PROC AMP > JVC DR-MV1 :)

As has been explained in threads in the past (but even I'm not sure when/where), it all comes down to generational damage. Analog video, to some degree, can pass correctable errors for several generations before becoming replaced or embedded. Horizontal jitter (video wiggling) is one such issue. Same for chroma noise. When a TBC "corrects" these errors, the output is permanent. So if a TBC butchers it, it's bad from here on. If a TBC fixes it, it's good from here on. If you chain TBCs (JVC>ES10>external), and the JVC ruins a portion of the signal, the ES10 and external can't do anything but pass the damage. If the ES10 does better than the JVC, simply disable the JVC TBC, and let it analog pass the errors to the next available timebase corrector.

It seems complex, but it's really pretty simple once you grasp the underlying principles.

rodbuilder 07-02-2011 07:12 AM

I think I have it... I just need to know that I still need to buy a external TBC and plug it in after the the JVC ES to get the tapes cleaned up.. cool.. I know what I need to get..

I wished this panny EZ I have had for years would filter.. I will look for a AVT-8710 and plug it in after the EZ and see if that will work.. if not I will look for a ES

Thank you

admin 07-02-2011 07:17 AM

You can't inject HTML into posts. Do this: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/news...ly-upload.html
Attach images to posts.

Quote:

external TBC and plug it in after the the JVC ES to get the tapes cleaned up
JVC ES?

The external TBC mostly acts as final frame sync, to ensure 100% signal strength, which avoids dropped frames, false anti-copy warnings, etc. It does slightly/mildly help with signal stability, but that's not really it's main function. The "cleanup" is reserved for the VCR TBC (or in this case, the ES10 TBC.)

rodbuilder 07-02-2011 07:24 AM

so the ES10 has it's own TBC... I guess I have missed that point up until now.. my apologies..

admin 07-02-2011 07:38 AM

ES10 has a TBC? Well, yes and no. It's actually referred to as a "virtual TBC" in Panasonic documentation of the era, and it's maybe not what you'd call a "true" TBC. It has filters that perform a few tasks similar to that of a TBC. It's really too lengthy to explain in detail, so for the sake of brevity, it's referred to as a TBC in my previous post. I think there's actually a diagram of the filter functions in staff docs, but I'd have to dig around for it. It was something swiped from a Japanese website 5+ years ago.

No apology needed. You're here to learn, and you're learning. :)

rodbuilder 07-02-2011 09:15 AM

2 Attachment(s)
No need to locate :) I just am happy with the TBC in the JVC that I sure hate to no be able to make these 15 tapes come out like the others that don't have a tearing issue. the Panasonic DMR-EZ28 has no effect on the pass through image.. So I will look for a DMR-ES10..

All I want it to make these come out like the others that have TBC..

I know this is a small time setup... but it sure is interesting to learn.. my wife is sick of me moving these 300 vhs from house to house.. :)

kpmedia 07-04-2011 03:37 AM

That's still a nice stack of gear. I'd never considered plastic racks.
Are those from Lowe's? I use one in my garage at home. Not the most sturdy, but you can always nail/screw them into the wall.

Quote:

the Panasonic DMR-EZ28 has no effect on the pass through image
Yep, sort of figured that would be the case. The "EZ" series was what replaced the ES series machines.

I see you have several spindles of good Verbatim discs, too. :thumb:


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:26 PM

Site design, images and content © 2002-2024 The Digital FAQ, www.digitalFAQ.com
Forum Software by vBulletin · Copyright © 2024 Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.