Soundcard or onboard sound for video capture?
I am just in the process of putting a system together for uncompressed video capture from VCR (using all in wonder 9800). In terms of capturing the sound with the video I wondered what the best option would be?
1) My motherboard is the Asrock ALiveDual-eSATA2 which uses the C-Media CM6501 Audio Codec with UAA architecture. The motherboard has a CD header directly on it so I could connect the All in wonder card with a CD cable directly to the board and use onboard sound for capture. 2) Use a sound blaster audigy 2 zs which I currently already have, however this card is much older than the motherboard so would it really be much better than using onboard sound in option 1? 3) Use a sound blaster x-fi fatal1ty which seems to be a step up from the audigy 2 zs, however how beneficial would it be compared to onboard sound in option 1? 4) Use an M-Audio Delta Audiophile 2496. From forum reviews it seems this is a highly rated card and provides a great balance between cost and performance. While the SoundBlaster cards are often referred to as gaming cards the M audio seems to have the edge in terms of professional sound recording. The problem is the card does not have any headers on it to accept a CD cable from the All in wonder card. I know I could just bypass the All in wonder card and go from the VCR for audio directly into the soundcard, however I have read a few posts saying it is better to pass audio through the All in Wonder card to help reduce sync problems. I would be really interested to see what people recommend. Not really worried about expense (within reason) as I just want to get the best results I can. Thanks Dave |
On-board C-Media audio tends to be horrible, and won't maintain a clock sync. Don't use it. When using the audio card with capturing video, always use a quality dedicated PCI audio card. (This obviously excludes situations where the audio is hardware encoded with the video.)
Sound Blaster Audigy is fine. Note that the oldest/first Audigy cards had problems, circa 2002-2004. There's no reason to believe the Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty will have better audio quality. When it comes to audio cards, the only "better" stuff on the card are the surround-sound features, multiple I/O, etc -- in other words, things that do not matter for the purpose of capturing video. In fact, sometimes these extra whizbang features inhibit proper audio capturing, or cooperation with video capture cards! M-Audio Delta Audiophile 2496 is probably a fine card, purely from the point-of-view of audio playback, but again there's no real advantage between it and the Sound Blaster card for capturing HiFi audio from a VCR. Unlike a lot of the other hardware aspects of capturing video, the audio card itself is either (1) working, or (2) not working. The "quality" of the card isn't really a concern. The main issue to look for in audio cards is how much the gain may be badly boosted, or if the clock will not sync properly, but that's generally an issue only found in the cheap chipsets integrated into motherboards. You're not going to face that issue with a name-brand PCI card from Creative Sound Blaster, Turtle Beach, M-Audio, or others. Even off-brand PCI audio cards tend to be passable. A bigger concern is speaker quality. Far too many people use cheap/junky consumer-grade speakers, which heavily distorts the sound, and have an atrocious frequency response curve. |
Are any of these two sound cards any decent for capturing audio?
https://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar...igy-sb0570-_JM https://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar...o-audigy-2-_JM If so, which one would you recommend? Mind one come with Installation CD and the other doesn't. What about this one? https://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar...-y-digital-_JM |
Not the USB item. I've never come across a decent USB audio card.
Audigy cards sometimes had issues, with the biggest problem being distortion and tinny quality. SoundBlaster cards just really were not very good, and many times even the modern onboard Realtek can sound better. |
This review from 4 years ago provides some good food for thought.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...o,3733-19.html In the 1980s and 1990s there were major differences in quality among sound cards and motherboard sound capabilities. The PC inside is a electrically noisy place, and how well the cards and on board circuitry dealt with that was a big issue. There was a lot of bad stuff for sale, and not just the cheap stuff. At that time names like M-Audio, Ensoniq, and Turtle Beach were tops, and Sound Blaster was in the process of dragging itself out of the mud to become decent. (Still good names for legacy PCs.) Today things are much better, to the point that the market for separate sound cards is all but dead except for folks setting up digital audio works stations and audiophiles with deep pockets (often using USB audio interfaces). The benefit of the USB audio interfaces for modern PCs is they save a scarce slot, provide many I/O options, get the ansdlog audio gear out of the noisy PC case, and reduce the chance of becoming obsolete as the PC bus changes every couple years. But simple, cheap USB devices are not the stuff audio workstations would use. I would look to brands such as TASCAM and M-Audio as a starting point for USB audio interfaces.. |
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Asrock ALiveDual-eSATA2
btw. the specs of this moterboard still refer to Windows Vista, and Windows XP :( CPU 2 core is also dated. A new OS will not like it, and need more resources. on top of that the soundcard will use many interrupts, which is also bad, maybe even sync issues. |
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I had thought about a USB Audio Interface since I could use it in several PCs instead of having a PCI sound card exclusively installed on 1 CPU. But I'm confused how would I connect the mini plug connector coming out of the video card, to the USB Audio interface. I know the USB Audio Interfaces have one or more line in's for 6.5 jacks but what about 3.5 mini plugs? |
You can find 6.5mm to 3.5mm adapters in most electronics stores, or online. They are pretty cheap.
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Be aware that the 6.5mm jacks on USB breakout boxes are often for single channel (mono) balanced audio sources and possibly mic level (check the documentation for the device you may have). The simple 3.5-to-6.5 mm adapters, such as come with headphones, are often for unbalanced stereo sources at consumer line or headphone level, and will not work properly with if plugged into a balanced input (you will hear the difference between the left and right channel).
You might need something like this depending on your gear and existing cables https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...iABEgKRtvD_BwE or https://www.guitarcenter.com/Hosa/35...4GC-adType^PLA |
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Sure, the Blackmagic capture card "works", Mac OS is popular among the general public, and Davinci Resolve is free, but these refrains are often irrelevant in threads about legacy hardware and software as they relate to high quality analog capture. |
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Now, I looked for some affordable options: Behringer Umc204 Hd, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 (2nd Gen), Steinberg UR22 MK2, Tascam US 2x2. The Behringer seems to be the only one compatible with Windows XP (and is the cheapest one when bought as new). What about this one? Any interface you would recommend? The pointed Hosa YMP434 adapter seems to be a pain in the ass to get locally, I'd have to import it. :rolleyes: |
Just a thought. Try your onboard audio to determine whether or not it meets your needs before you shell out real money for new or external sound card or USB audio interface. While its reputation was not tops you might have one that was better than most.
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Why should an external soundcard be used at all ? i see no point in that, other than it could give sync issues...
always use the sound input of the capture device, thats good enough for sound of a VHS tape. Even a capture card/device from BlackMagic Design would be a cheaper and better solution, then trying to do it the hard way, like is suggested. |
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Focusrite, Steinberg and Tascam are all generally well regarded for audio equipment, so they would probably work great too. Alternatively, as it's an older computer, maybe you could luck out on an older used firewire sound card for cheap. The main thing really with recording sound once you're above the super cheap level sound cards is avoiding noise, which can be an issue with some integrated cards (unless you're running a recording studio or something and have very high requirements). As for cables, RCA -> Jack cables also exist if you're taking audio from a VCR. |
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The external USB audio interface device was suggested with current computers in mind where USB is the main way to connect. The better sound cards are a good choice for an older PC bus in a dedicated machine as long as you don't plan to move it forwarded to newer MBs. I've been happy with several different M-Audio cards, including the Delta66 (handy breakout box), Audiophile 2496, and Audiophile 192. On my more recent boxes I'm using a USB connected TASCAM US366 interface. Linear track VHS audio is not very good, arguably on a par with good AM radio. However, VHS HiFI can be quite good, better than the low grade sound cards of old. |
This is the PC I intend to use for capturing:
Microprocessor: Intel Pentium 4 (3.00GHz) - Motherboard: PC Chips P21g V3.1 Socket 775 - Memory: 1GB RAM DDR (although I'm gonna expand it to 2 GB) - HDD: S-ATA II 120 GB - OS: Windows XP SP2 Two final possible options (if I decide to upgrade to a better soundcard) are: M-audio Audiophile 192 - 24bits soundcard --> Would avoid noise as an external interface does? Behringer Umc204 Hd interface --> Is more convenient since I could use it in other PCs as well, but how good would it work with these specs? What would you choose? |
Ability to quickly move for use with newer system and use beyond simple audio capture argues for the Behringer. I am not familiar with the specific MB you have, and have no idea whether or not it will mate happily with your other peripherals.
You will probably want a separate hard drive for video capture/storage, one that does not contain the OS or software you will be using. |
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More precisely a 2TB Seagate Expansion. It seems I'll have to change the partition to BMR in order to properly work with XP, as I already have a 1TB WesternDigital which was not recognized by XP. I'll try to make a capture with my current hardware and post it here. |
I'd leave the MAudio card out, there's no input Gain Control via Software / Windows Mixer and due to it being a 24/192 card and having a really low noisefloor (-105dB), it records at around -20dB. These cards are designed that way by default as gain is usually controlled by a preamp or mixer which lies in the signal chain before the MAudio.
The Behringer isn't much better and the volume control does not affect the RCA jacks on the back, you'll have to use the Behringer app for this. The volume pot only controls the main out jacks. Even though there are two pairs of RCA connectors, the A/B switch does not switch between them. The supplied ASIO driver is also a POS, always dropping off my DAW so much so that I got rid of it. I digitize a lot of Vinyl and can highly recommend either a Tascam or Focusrite soundcard but they ain't cheap. |
Thanks bar72, very informative answer.
So just to be clear, with the Behringer I had to connect my speakers to the jack out, otherwise if I connected them to the RCA out, the signal would not be amplified? Go ahead and throw some suggestions, it's always good to know what equipment is best, even if I can't afford it. |
If you want to control your Gain Output to an Amplifier or Active Speakers, etc then you'd have to get TRS to RCA Adapter plugs. This would give you control of the Gain heading out, via the "Main Out" jacks to the Amplifier (Highlighted in White in below picture).
If you wanted Virtual Dub / VirtualVCR, etc to capture the audio from a VHS transfer then just route the RCA leads from the VCR to Input 1 & 2 which you can control via the Gain 1/2 rotational knobs on the front of the unit so you'd manage to control what was going into the PC (Via USB) but not what's running through to the RCA Outs (Unless you install their bloaty software). Gain control is a must with music as if the recording coming in is "Hot" and you have no Gain control, you'll trip the amplifier circuits or induce clipping (bad). If you wanted to attach, say, a PA / cassette / DAT recorder / Amplifier to the RCA Jacks (Highlighted in Yellow in below picture) then you'll have no control to anything connected via the RCA out's so you would have to either use the Behringer Software on the PC or have a mixer controlling the signal coming in via Input 1 or 2. I can only assume that the RCA Out's are simply a passthough from the input on the hardware's internals to cut down on production costs? While not a dealbreaker, Gain control on RCA Out's is pretty much standard and essential if you use the card for routing a CD / DVD Player / Turntable, etc as not all vinyl / cd's are mastered at equal levels. While it's just a case of an additional piece of Software running on the PC, I don't like having more than I need running when capping anything so I'd give it a swerve but that's only my opinion of course. http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/error.gif |
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