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gatch72 06-05-2005 06:01 AM

DVD Recorders
I'm in the market of getting one of these..Dont know anything about them, done all of my work on the PC. I'm getting Dish Network this week w/ the DVR and I think a DVD recorder will go well with it..Whats the best u can get at the best price.

lordsmurf 06-05-2005 06:43 AM

If you do stuff directly from DISH to the recorder, or the DVR to the recorder, and NO TAPES are ever involved, you'd be happy with the PIONEER that is sold at Walmart for just under $200. Easily do 3 hour recordings at flawless quality.

If you want to work with tapes, get an LSI-chipped machines, the ones from JVC are best ($300) and the ones from ILO work decent and are cheap ($120). On the JVC, up to 4 hours flawless quality, the ILO up to 3 hours. The LSI chips have the ability to remove noise and chroma errors found on ALL video tapes.

Machines you DO NOT WANT include Philips, Panasonic, Cyberhome, Magnavox. Do NOT get the ILO "05" units, those are re-badged Cyberhomes.

Machines not mentioned here work alright, not the worst, but also far from the best. And best is either the same price or cheaper in most cases.

gatch72 06-05-2005 06:57 AM

Yep..I will be recording straight from the DVR..Only thing i will need to figure out is hooking up the DVD recorder..Is their a certain model # for the PIONEER.

lordsmurf 06-05-2005 07:05 AM

Walmart only carries one model.
At any rate, any PIONEER unit is fine.
I think the one they has is the 220-S or something close.

gatch72 06-05-2005 08:01 AM

Cool..Will look onto that..

markatisu 06-05-2005 09:29 AM

yeah right now at most its $198, a lot of walmarts also sell a very nice Sanyo on $99 clearance that will do good SP and I am guessing decent 3hr but if I had to go for good and not in the $$ I would get the Pioneer, you can layaway it even if you need to save money or use multiple pay checks

gatch72 06-05-2005 10:11 AM

Well I'm sold on that one then, I may need some help on hooking the thing up to my satellite and tv.

gatch72 06-06-2005 10:53 PM

Does this recorder use both +/- DVDs.

lordsmurf 06-06-2005 11:41 PM

I never understand this question. Get a good recorder, forget the discs. Just use what it needs. In the case of the Pioneer, it uses DVD-R and DVD-RW in DVD-Video mode. Don't use DVD-VR mode.

stoogedog 06-07-2005 01:30 AM

hi, just wondered why you don't use dvd-vr mode. let us know. your input always appreciated. thanks

lordsmurf 06-07-2005 01:36 AM

DVD-VR mode is not 100% to the DVD-Video spec. It's an "active" mode made only for DVD recorders. Not all DVD players will play video in this mode, due to how it handles resolution and bitrate. It depends on the recorder, some ONLY do VR and are therefore more "compliant" to video settings, but in general, use video and avoid VR when at all possible. Plus VR is a lot harder to edit, sometimes the audio packs don't line up properly (panasonic has this problem BAD!).

wheezer210 06-07-2005 01:38 AM

I can affirm the quality of this unit. The TV recordings are great, and any VHS to dvd transfers have come out perfect. The remote is a bit cluttered, but once you get used to it, it's a breeze.

gatch72 06-09-2005 12:43 PM

it up to my HD cable box, I have regular cable going through it..I will be getting DISH tomorrow,surely they know how to hook it up to the reciever if it hooks up the same as my cable box. Its hooked up with the 5 monster cables and i have no idea how to make it work. Any ideas, just in case they dont know.

gatch72 06-17-2005 09:40 AM

I got it all hooked up and running..Thank you to all that responded.

daMaddColombian 07-04-2005 11:41 PM

Well I had a tough time locating a Pioneer 220-S at Walmart, because now they are carrying the 231-S which has fewer inputs and outputs, but I found one and it is sweet.

MagnificentMarcus 07-20-2005 03:16 AM

Guys I'm more confused than ever on what type/brand of DVD recorder to get. If you read the reviews on the Pioneer they are not all that flattering.

lordsmurf 07-20-2005 07:27 AM

Don't waste your time reading reviews. They are mostly written by nitwits. Magazines judge on floopy things like the color of the remote and how the menu is laid out, they give little regard to video quality. People reviews (like at amazon) tend to be morons, happy people leave less reviews than pissy ones, often folks that don't read the manual or are just dumb to the tech.

Honestly, forget them. Listen to us. We're your people, collectors that make and watch countless hours of footage. Those reviews often have less than 10 minutes usage under their belt.

- For the best video quality, get the JVC.
- For a runner-up machine, get the LiteOn (or ILO "04" clone), or a Pioneer.
- Sanyo and Toshiba might work, but we're looking at third choices here, farther down the list.

Unless you like your video to look like crap, avoid Panasonic and Phillips for sure. Those machines have to be used in 2-hour mode for the most part, and they almost ALWAYS butchers VHS source. If you go farther than 2 hours (which is a ridiculous limit, digital tech is not like VHS tapes were), the footage has to be still and low motion, but even then, these two machines can cause LOTS of imperfections.

The JVC is excellent for 3-4 hours of footage in top quality.
The Pioneer, if fed a clean signal, also 3-4 hours.

If you want to work with VHS stuff, Pioneer is out of the question, it doesn't fix VHS noise at all. JVC and LiteON are what you want for transferring and cleaning up VHS. Just for the sake of reference, the specs of a 3-hour or 4-hour MPEG-2 video files are STILL higher res/bandwidth than a VHS tape ever was, even on SP mode using the best tapes on the best equipment. Merely find a machine that makes the spec theory into a reality, some of them can, some cannot.

I can't lay it out any better for you. I've owned most of these machines, tested them extensively for a couple weeks, always kept ones that performed well (JVC, LiteOn). Both of us have likely seen various sets made on various machines, that's another good indicator of what it can do.

You and I, we already know more than those reviewers, so to hell with them. Use what we know already, from our time in this hobby, using our own two eyes.

MagnificentMarcus 07-20-2005 07:41 AM

Thanks LS, I've been planning on buying one for quite sometime. It just gets so confusing trying to get your monies worth and not get screwed. I've heard a lot of good things about Liteon and they are reasonably priced!

lordsmurf 07-20-2005 07:59 AM

The LiteOn is a decent unit. Be sure you hack it and enable the 3-hour mode, as that is the best one. I try to not use 4-hour too much on my LiteOn 5001, as it can get a bit blocky at scene changes or during extreme fast action. The LiteON can also be hacked region-free and Macrovision-free. And on the playing side, the LiteOn is easily the best PAL DVD player I have ever used.

LiteOn is not perfect, no machine is. See this:



Issue: (1) Random jitter in the image, randomly while viewing or recording. (2) Green tint, randomly when playing and/or recordings. (3) Mono tuners, not stereo. The stereo is only using RCA audio (red/white wires). (4) Overheating.

How common is it? (1) Random, yet very common. Tends to happen more on 1163 or later firmwares. Note: that is a USA R1 number, other region firmware numbers vary slightly. This seems to be a problem more on 5001, 5005 and 5006 units. Or ones using those mainboards. (2) This issues seems to infect only the newest LiteOn models (like 5045, 5007) and ILO models. It is about as random as the jitter, not everybody sees it. (3) While there may be a couple stereo models, most are mono. (4) Very common, especially on the models that have no fans, no heatsinks, and no air vents, or combination thereof.

Can it be fixed? (1) Yes. Downgrade to 1143 or older firmwares. The work-around is to hit SOURCE a couple times to cycle back to it. This can also be caused by overheating. (2) Recent firmware upgrades are reported to correct this problem. But since the nature of the error is random, this fix is unlikely to fix every unit exhibiting this problem. Try it, and cross your fingers. (3) No. This is the hardware of the tuner. It is dual-channel mono, so it's not like you'll only get audio from one speaker. Since many tv shows are mono, especially anything syndicated, this will not be noticed by most people. (4) Yes, with some custom work. Simply removing the cover will provide decent air to keep the unit from failing. Further work yields even better results, such as -A- drilling holes in the side of the case (remove the cover, do not drill into the unit while it is assembled), -B- cutting a RAM heatskink in half with a hacksaw and using thermal tape to attach it to the LSI chip, -C- installing a small fast fan to blow air across the motherboard, and out of the drilled vent holes. This will also correct most jitter issues, if the fan blows LOTS of cool air across the heatsink. This setup may be slightly noisy, but no worse than a computer, ceiling fan or air conditioner, which most people have running anyway. Some of the oldest firmware is also known to run hotter on the chips, too much code activity going on in them.

Will it break again? This question is moot for the first 3 issues, seeing as how none of them can be fixed. Just work-arounds, hopeful patches, or hardware limitations. For (4), this fixes the cooling issue permanently, and often corrects the jitter issue most of the time.

Related myths: The drive model affects the jitter or heat. This is simply not true. The drive model has no effect on any of the LiteOn flaws.
Don't let that scare you away, but I just wanted to arm you with all the facts. Most of those things most people never see. It's almost like the disclaimers on medicine "diarrhea, death, decapitation".

Hacking the drive info is here:

gatch72 07-20-2005 07:59 AM

I cant find the LITE ON version 04..Only the 05's.

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