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-   -   Frozen video while capturing VHS tapes? (https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-capture/6838-frozen-video-capturing.html)

Maris 55 11-11-2015 05:41 AM

Frozen video while capturing VHS tapes?
 
I am using Canopus ADVC110 for VHS capturing. I have an almost new LG LV880 4 Head HiFi VCR and a powerful desktop PC. I use Sony Vegas 12 for capturing.

Everything seemed good with the VHS capture until I got an offer to digitalise 150 VHS tapes. I agreed and in order to accomplish this huge task ( I am an employee) I set up a second VHS capture system at work using the same ADVC110 and LG V9800 6 Head HiFi VCR.
Here I started to encounter problems while capturing some VHS tapes with video freezing / interrupting. I brought these tapes home to test on my home system and everything was completely OK. I replaced LG V9800 with a Sony SLV-SE630 4 Head HiFI VCR but the problems remained. The video freezes / interrupts with some tapes. I took both LG V9800 and Sony VCR home for double check, but the problems remained.
I connected the Sony VCR through a Panasonic NV-G200 camera and the same bad tapes were captured with NO Problems.
So here are my own conclusions: Canopus ADVC110 captures well with some VCRs and may not capture decently with some others. All 3 HiFi VCRs are as new, the heads are properly cleaned with isopropyl spirit, etc. Because the "bad" tapes were well captured by using the Panasonic camera I assume that there is something that the ADVC dislike in the incoming video signal. I tried to use different DIP switch positions and different Capture settings in Sony Vegas with no changes.
So I do have conclusions but don't have answers. :)
I know I should have a S-VHS VCR with TBC and or Stand-alone TBC, but what if it does not change things much? Why does my home system with LG LV880 works fine, but the same capture with 2 other VCRs not? Interstingly the Vegas Video Capture shows no Dropped frames after these bad captures!
My colleque thinks that possibly these 2 VCRs need to have adjusted the sync head in a good workshop.

I would appreciate any help very much!

Goldwingfahrer 11-11-2015 06:37 AM

I also have a ADVC 110 [+ 300 + 1000]
Capture but very little directly to DV-AVI.
Either with or Edius with WinDV.
I have Sony Vegas Pro 13. [HDMI in + SDI in]
the LG LV880 I can not write anything, I have not.
But I would try the LG LV880 ---> Pana DMR EH65 ---> ADVC110.
It is better if you record the signal from the DMR directly via HDMI.
Only a few days ago I tested a AVT8710 with Sony Vegas Pro.
AVT8710 ---> Data video DAC 7 ----> SDI to PC.
Am satisfied.
----------------
Encode analog material to DV-AVI is actually a sin.
You can try with a DMR EH65 [or DMR EH595 / 585/575] it times
S-video and audio but only from Scart / Peritel ----> ADVC110.
---------------------
Why do we have more than 40 professionals recorder and dozens of intermediate devices, video editing cards, which must be a reason;-)
Not just for fun

Maris 55 11-16-2015 02:05 AM

Thanks for your advice! But that does not answer my questions- why Canopus ADVC110 does not like the video from some VCRs, but captures fine with some other VCR? A quick reminder: it captures well from one VCR, but frozes the video from the same tape when played from 2 other VCRs. All 3 VCRs are in the same good condition and nothing wrong can be viewed when watching the same tape on a LCD TV.

Goldwingfahrer 11-16-2015 02:58 AM

Okay, I have more than 40 recorders.
Few recorder bring an accurate and time-constant signal.
Sometimes will take exactly 25 FPS [PAL] appears less, sometimes only 23.769.
A TV has no problems, because the so-called capture range is much greater.

That's why I recommend either a map of Canopus NX or AVT8710 or DMR EH65.
We capture times per day up to 30 movies from VHS or Hi8 tapes, so already know of what I speak.
All we had but already described in a thread on the Doom9 German.
sorry, I can not write more ...
--------------
The ADVC 110 converter from analog to DV-AVI.
But if the signal is not delivered clean, then comes the ADVC exits the.
we had that earlier with the predecessor "ADVC100"
or even earlier with the Dazzle DV Bridge Hollyood.

[Der ADVC110 wandelt von analog nach DV-AVI.
Wenn aber das Signal nicht sauber geliefert wird,dann kommt der ADVC aus dem tritt.
das hatten wir doch früher schon mit dem Vorgänger "ADVC100"
oder noch früher mit der Dazzle Hollyood DV Bridge.]
------------
Just ask users lord smurf or sanlyn,
Both have a lot of knowledge

Maris 55 11-17-2015 11:18 AM

Thanks for your help! But how would you explain why I fail to capture through ADVC 110 but succeed to capture the same tape from the same VCR through a Panasonic G200 miniDV camcoder? What could be the difference between ADVC 110 and a Panasonic camcoder? There are no special features named in the Panasonic manual which could be related to propper capture. Shall I think that there is something wrong with the ADVC 110? But as I told in my first post it captures fine with my prime home setup with another VCR.

dpalomaki 11-18-2015 07:21 AM

The bottom line is that the Panasonic is more tolerant of out of spec sync and/or other irregularities in the video input. That is why it can capture video that the ADVC cannot. The ADVC expects a signal that is closer to specs. But that does not mean the capture is more accurate - it could be better or worse with respect to the image portions of successfully captured video.

The DV format is not great for restoration due to the limited color data and lossy compression (4:2:0 or 4:1:1 sampling). While this is generally OK for viewing and cuts editing with good source material, the accumulation of processing errors during restoration will degrade the final product compared to the results you can get from a lossless 4:2:2 capture. Whether or not this presents a significant issue for your application and clients is your decision.

Maris 55 11-19-2015 01:54 AM

Thanks for explanation. That's the way I understand the capture by myself too. Luckily I have at least one VCR that outputs a signal that is well accepted by Canopus. I would invest in a Panasonic FS200 and a TBC if I knew that more job will follow, but I'm not sure. The market is small here.
I mostly do Trim, Cut, Fade In/Out, Borders and some Audio processing in Sony Vegas and then Render to whatever the client needs. Most of time to mp4.

sanlyn 11-19-2015 10:27 AM

With a DV capture (which is a lossy encoded, interlaced video), cuts and joins are not a problem. But fades, transitions, modifying borders, and other alterations of the image mean another stage of lossy encoding. Each stage loses more data than the previous stage. One way to avoid loss is to make your alterations in the timeline and then output directly to h264/mp4 without saving your work to an intermediate output file. That would still be two lossy encoding steps, both of which will have digital artifacts caused by VHS noise, but if DV is your only choice you have to accept the results.

dpalomaki 11-19-2015 10:48 AM

Quote:

...digital artifacts caused by VHS noise...
Amen! Noise is a major reason why many encodes to DVD do not look good as one might expect. Bits are wasted on the noise rather than intended image content.

Maris 55 11-19-2015 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanlyn (Post 40644)
One way to avoid loss is to make your alterations in the timeline and then output directly to h264/mp4 without saving your work to an intermediate output file.

Right. I wonder who would save the work to an intermediate file. Do you mean saving to an intermediate DV file? If I have not finished my job, or I don't have the time to Render to mp4 then I save the job as Sony Vegas project and do the rest of the work or rendering later.

Thanks for you involvment!

sanlyn 11-19-2015 02:46 PM

Yes, saving as a project and then finishing it later to a direct encode will prevent further processing loss. But it doesn't prevent further loss from the last lossy encode, which can be a little or a lot depending on how it's encoded. One problem is that image mods in most NLE's make a YUV to RGB conversion but they don't do a very clean job of it. Nor does that last lossy encode step do anything to relieve VHS noise and defects -- such as tape noise, chroma noise, buzzing or sawtooth edges, noisy motion, dancing grain, DCT ringing, crushed darks, blown out highlights, etc. -- or artifacts from the original capture (no NLE fixes those. That's not what they're designed for). This is why so many experienced users don't recommend VHS-to-DV.

Be that as it may, you have what you have. If you have problems you can't fix, you can always ask for help here. Wishing you smooth sailing with your project.....
:wink2:

lordsmurf 01-03-2016 01:02 PM

Huffyuv lossless AVI is the most common intermediary for SD work. For HD, it's either ProRes422 or DNxHD.


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