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  #1  
12-31-2015, 01:57 PM
Luca T Luca T is offline
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Hi guys,

I would have some question about Ati wonder cards:

I need to capture Pal Vhs but I read on the other thread that I can't use an ATI wonder to capture directly in Mpeg?! Is it correct? Can I only do a double conversion to have a Pal Mpeg?
Do I lose quality?

It's really difficult to find the Ati Wonder 600/650 (almost imposiible in europe), which Pcie card could I buy?

I found a Diamond HD 750 in Usa is it good?

Do all ati AIW at same "level"? or is there a "better" one?

is the ATI All-In-Wonder Radeon X1900 same level of the 600/650?

Thanks a lot guys
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  #2  
01-01-2016, 02:43 AM
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I think you're confused about ATI All In Wonder vs. ATI TV Wonder. Those are not the same.

ATI All In Wonder (ATI AIW) were the premiere chipsets from about 2001 to 2007, married graphics to video capture, and were around $300 new. ATI AIW used a special tool developed especially for that advanced card: ATI MultiMedia Center, aka ATI MMC. It was MMC that fully used the card's hybrid MPEG capturing. It could also capture AVI, but VirtualDub was better. All ATI AIW cards used the Rage Theatre (aka Theatre 100) and Theatre 200 chipsets.

ATI TV Wonder were stripped-down video-capture-only lesser cards. These used other chipsets -- mostly the ATI 550. These did not use ATI MMC, and most were actually unable to capture MPEG very well at all. The ATI 650 USB cards (not the PCI versions!) had a decent chipset, and used the passable ATI Catalyst Media Center (ATI CMC) for MPEG capturing for NTSC only. Or AVI with VirtualDub for both PAL and NTSC.

ATI AIW had PCI, AGP, and PCI express (PCIe or PCI-E) cards. The PCI cards were the earliest 7000 series cards, and are usually second-best. The AGP cards are the best, especially the later 9000 series cards using the Theatre 200 chipsets. The PCIe cards are third best, as they do have some quirks and oddities that you did not have in the AGP and PCI lines. That is not to say, however. that the PCIe are bad in any way. Understand that PCI vs. AGP vs PCIe is nitpicking. ATI AIW cards in general are better than almost anything else that ever existed for analog capture.

Yes, the ATI AIW x1900 card is better than the ATI 650 USB.

The only caveat with ATI AIW is that it requires Windows XP 32-bit. So you should always build a separate capture-only system. The 650 USB card can be used with Vista or 7, both 32-bit and 64-bit. It may even work with Windows 8 and 10, although untested.

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  #3  
01-01-2016, 07:59 AM
Luca T Luca T is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
I think you're confused about ATI All In Wonder vs. ATI TV Wonder. Those are not the same.

ATI All In Wonder (ATI AIW) were the premiere chipsets from about 2001 to 2007, married graphics to video capture, and were around $300 new. ATI AIW used a special tool developed especially for that advanced card: ATI MultiMedia Center, aka ATI MMC. It was MMC that fully used the card's hybrid MPEG capturing. It could also capture AVI, but VirtualDub was better. All ATI AIW cards used the Rage Theatre (aka Theatre 100) and Theatre 200 chipsets.

ATI TV Wonder were stripped-down video-capture-only lesser cards. These used other chipsets -- mostly the ATI 550. These did not use ATI MMC, and most were actually unable to capture MPEG very well at all. The ATI 650 USB cards (not the PCI versions!) had a decent chipset, and used the passable ATI Catalyst Media Center (ATI CMC) for MPEG capturing for NTSC only. Or AVI with VirtualDub for both PAL and NTSC.

ATI AIW had PCI, AGP, and PCI express (PCIe or PCI-E) cards. The PCI cards were the earliest 7000 series cards, and are usually second-best. The AGP cards are the best, especially the later 9000 series cards using the Theatre 200 chipsets. The PCIe cards are third best, as they do have some quirks and oddities that you did not have in the AGP and PCI lines. That is not to say, however. that the PCIe are bad in any way. Understand that PCI vs. AGP vs PCIe is nitpicking. ATI AIW cards in general are better than almost anything else that ever existed for analog capture.

Yes, the ATI AIW x1900 card is better than the ATI 650 USB.

The only caveat with ATI AIW is that it requires Windows XP 32-bit. So you should always build a separate capture-only system. The 650 USB card can be used with Vista or 7, both 32-bit and 64-bit. It may even work with Windows 8 and 10, although untested.

Got it now?
Thank you so much for the explanation, I made a mess before I thought could be a different name eu/us

So to acheive The best possible I would need a card with the Theatre 200, is it only on agp card?

Anyway to capture Pal Mpeg do I need a double operation?
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  #4  
01-01-2016, 12:31 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
The ATI 650 USB cards (not the PCI versions!) had a decent chipset
[...] the ATI AIW x1900 card is better than the ATI 650 USB.
[...] 650 USB card can be used with Vista or 7
I believe this was meant to say 600, not 650.
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  #5  
01-01-2016, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post
I believe this was meant to say 600, not 650.
Yep, you are correct.

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  #6  
01-01-2016, 12:48 PM
Luca T Luca T is offline
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I found an Ati AIW 9800 Pro (it's ntsc) or an Ati AIW 9000 (it should be Pal), do I need a Pal one?

Or Is the Ntsc referred only for the TV analog signal?
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  #7  
01-01-2016, 12:50 PM
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ATI AIW cards are not PAL or NTSC, regardless of whatever you may read. Only the analog tuner was specific to PAL oo NTSC, and that doesn't matter in this post-analog era. The ATI AIW cards accept PAL, NTSC, SECAM, and several hybrid formats, via the composite or s-video input.

The cards works for almost everybody worldwide. Just another reason it was so good.

So that 9800 is not NTSC specific.

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  #8  
01-01-2016, 01:15 PM
Luca T Luca T is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
ATI AIW cards are not PAL or NTSC, regardless of whatever you may read. Only the analog tuner was specific to PAL oo NTSC, and that doesn't matter in this post-analog era. The ATI AIW cards accept PAL, NTSC, SECAM, and several hybrid formats, via the composite or s-video input.

The cards works for almost everybody worldwide. Just another reason it was so good.

So that 9800 is not NTSC specific.
That's Perfect

I could guess it could work in that way but I wanted to be sure due to video-capture is new sector for me

Now I'm searching in all my PC old spare-parts a Mainboard with agp slot, all found until now are not enough old!
(Found cpu and ram of that era)

I saw even the Matrox Mxo2 mini but it's a little pricy

-- merged --

Ehm just one more very basic question:

I will capture video from vhs tapes with the S-video to the Ati all in wonder but ehm what about audio?
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  #9  
01-02-2016, 02:58 PM
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Audio is passed to the audio card.

You cannot use onboard audio, and the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz is suggested for Windows XP systems.
(Bonus: Those cards are easy to get, and about $20 on eBay.)

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  #10  
01-02-2016, 03:01 PM
Amaze Amaze is offline
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You can pass audio from vcr to soundcard via composite. With an old board with agp I would assume the onboard audio is pretty bad, unlike today's onboard which is quite good. You'd have to check what chip your board comes with.
If you do get a separate sound card remember to check that it has xp support.
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  #11  
01-02-2016, 03:06 PM
Luca T Luca T is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Audio is passed to the audio card.

You cannot use onboard audio, and the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz is suggested for Windows XP systems.
(Bonus: Those cards are easy to get, and about $20 on eBay.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaze View Post
You can pass audio from vcr to soundcard via composite. With an old board with agp I would assume the onboard audio is pretty bad, unlike today's onboard which is quite good. You'd have to check what chip your board comes with.
If you do get a separate sound card remember to check that it has xp support.
Thanks guys!

At least one thing that I could find easily
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  #12  
01-03-2016, 03:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaze View Post
I would assume the onboard audio is pretty bad, unlike today's onboard which is quite good.
It doesn't matter. Onboard audio conflicts, period, due to the way it is implemented in hardware. A separate audio card is required. Age doesn't matter.

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  #13  
01-04-2016, 01:04 PM
Luca T Luca T is offline
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I found at home an old Soundblaster Audigy LS 0310, Is it good?
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  #14  
01-05-2016, 09:13 AM
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It might be. Some SB cards react badly to some setups. Try it and see. The main issue is the high crackling levels (aka distortion) on the audio. If you cap a video with proper 33-50% audio input levels (varies tape to tape), and it sounds bad, the card is crap.

The Turtle Beach Santa Cruz is better. I've never seen one act poorly.

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  #15  
01-05-2016, 10:08 AM
Luca T Luca T is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
It might be. Some SB cards react badly to some setups. Try it and see. The main issue is the high crackling levels (aka distortion) on the audio. If you cap a video with proper 33-50% audio input levels (varies tape to tape), and it sounds bad, the card is crap.

The Turtle Beach Santa Cruz is better. I've never seen one act poorly.
Understood I will take a turtle beach Santa Cruz
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  #16  
01-06-2016, 12:25 AM
Amaze Amaze is offline
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I can vouch for the Santa Cruz. It's what I had in my computer back when I was on XP. Loved it.
Was so sad when they didn't release new drivers for 7.
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  #17  
01-11-2016, 02:32 PM
Luca T Luca T is offline
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Is there a better model of the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz?

I found two cards that are quite similar (just different capacitors' color), one is written just "Turtle Beach Santa Cruz" on the other is written "Turtle Beach Santa Cruz TB400-2541-02"
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  #18  
01-11-2016, 02:37 PM
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No idea. It's probably just different descriptions for the same card.

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  #19  
01-11-2016, 03:10 PM
Luca T Luca T is offline
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Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
No idea. It's probably just different descriptions for the same card.
The only difference I can see in the name is one "038frh" and the other "036frh"

Then the structure and position of chips is the same just different capacitors' color one black on the other blue
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  #20  
01-11-2016, 03:21 PM
Amaze Amaze is offline
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Could just be a different batch I guess? Shouldn't be any difference.
My card has black capacitors with a blue stripe. Probably bought in 2004.
It also has TB400-2541-02 written on it at the top.
It also says 038frh on a sticker here, revion f00.
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