Recommend HDMI capture card for VirtualDub on WinXP?
 

Hello,

Can anyone recommend HDMI capture card, preferably USB that can work with VirtualDub on XP and record in standard 480i resolution bypassing hardware compression. Thanks.

--Leonid

Don't know of a USB one that also works in WinXP that I would recommend. Why XP?

Internal: AVerMedia C027.

I put my eye on a few.

Here they are:

https://www.startech.com/AV/Converte...nal~USB2HDCAPM
This one is USB 2.0. Looks like it doesn't do internal compression. Claimed to be working with 480i.

https://www.startech.com/AV/Converte...nent~USB2HDCAP

This one is said to have built-in H.264 and MPEG-4 hardware encoder and it scares me. Can I bypass it when working with VirtualDub? It's discontinued and is replaced with the following:

https://www.startech.com/AV/Converte...ice~USB2HDCAPS

This seems to be stand alone and I want it to go to PC.

https://www.startech.com/AV/Converte...-vga~USB3HDCAP

This one is USB 3.0.

http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr2.html

This one seems to be enforcing hardware encoding... So no.... I keep on looking...

Any USB 2.0 device that advertises 1080p support must be doing hardware encoding. USB 2.0 is barely enough to transmit uncompressed SD 4:2:2.

You should take a look at my HDMI comparison thread on VideoHelp, as I found that even uncompressed devices don't all transmit the signal faithfully.

So if VirtualDub can't see the HDMI device, does it mean it has hardware compressor inside which is not bypassable?

Where is the thread?

In theory, some devices could be bypassed using Preview pin in GraphEdit while VDub can't see them but this would be rare. It doesn't apply in the case of USB 2.0 HDMI cap devices.

For me it's the first Google result for "hdmi screenshot comparison" but that may be because of Google tracking me. Add vaporeon800 or do a search on VH for all threads by that ID. I'm not able to link it right now.

Thank you. So I guess USB3HDCAP is not a true HDMI capture.

From the list I have to go with either Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro 4K or AVerMedia C027. Just don't have PCIe slots anymore. Or need to remove my ATI TV Wonder Theatre 750.

However, I want to still try to buy USB2HDCAPM stick and see if it's just a pure pass-through. Or, I can look into Matrox but then I need to go to Mac and that's the last thing that I want.

Thank you.

--Leonid

Leonid, please be sure to let us know what you end up with... I don't need a USB device in particular, but I would like to do uncompressed HDMI captures from an ADV7842 evaluation board for Laserdisc purposes. Thanks!

The Avermedia C027 works fine for HDMI capture. The USB3HDCAP (and its Micomsoft X-Capture cousin) has well documented problems with drivers. Apparently the OEM who makes the capture chips (Yuan Tech) can't seem to release bug free drivers.

Any USB HDMI capture device is going to require USB 3.0 for uncompressed capture. If your budget is higher, the frame grabber market has a few devices that do HDMI capture well, like the Epiphan DVI2USB 3.0 and their DVI2PCIe internal cards:

https://www.epiphan.com/products/dvi...-0/tech-specs/

I have a DVI2PCIe card, they can be occasionally found on ebay for a fraction of the $1299 MSRP if you are patient. Just make sure you are getting the correct card as some jerk is trying to pass off Vidyo branded cards with no drivers as an Epiphan product.

Welcome to the club. I ordered ADV7842 evaluation board, but I think I might be out of luck. Analog.com (manufacturers) came back to me and telling me that in order to get HDMI board, one needs to be an HDMI adopter. On top of that if you have HDCP, you need to get an additional license. So I did order the board from Mauser.com. It's on the back order. Whether they will deliver or cancel the order, I don't know.

PS. Are you in Philly?

NJRoadfan,

What about USB 2.0 cards for the standard old school 720x480 interlaced lossless 4:2:2 capture? Cause this is what I am planning to output from LaserDiscs. Is it doable?

If this card has Composite in, then I guess, I won't need separate HDMI card. Cause it has this ADV7842 board.
http://www.magewell.com/pro-capture-hdmi
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...D&A=details&Q=

So, the part number EVAL-ADV7842-7511P with the "P" on the end indicates the NON-HDCP version of the card, available to whomever wants to buy it. The model number lacking the "P" suffix is the HDCP-keyed version that you have to be licensed for. Analog didn't mention anything about HDMI licensing though... they just said I had to buy through distribution because I didn't have an account with them.

I also ordered off of Mouser, it said "estimated ship date 3/24/17" and then on my order confirmation email it actually said "1 in stock." It said "1 on order" on the website though ... I guess we'll see. I ordered this morning. When did you place your order?

And yes, I'm in Philly... well, almost. Lansdale, about 30 miles northwest of Center City. Are you in the area?

Yeah, msgohan also mentioned that today in this thread - http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...ycs-100-a.html

I wish I knew about it before I placed an order for this eval board. :smack:

Well, msgohan said that you can't tweak ADV7842 if it's inside the capture card. So go figure.

I placed the order yesterday. I spoke to them also yesterday and the day before yesterday. The day before yesterday the person I spoke to was very aggressive. When I told him that he was wrong because a couple of people did get the board, he was aggressively asking me where and when. This requirement came less than a month ago.

By the way, you don't need TBC for LaserDiscs. Each player has built in TBC.

I also wanted to say that I have made 12 LD captures of the same thing using various equipment and LD players during the last couple of years. Maybe anyone is interested to see 1 second of the same sample of all 12 of them just to compare? Equipment included ATI Theater 750 PCIe and USB, OneTouch VC500, Panasonic DMR-ES25, Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle, cheap Conexant based USB stick a-la VC500 but with component inputs, Compro VideoMate, AIW7500 and players LD-S2 and CLD-D703.

From my observation I tend to think that what is doing well on the Snell & Wilcox test pattern is not necessary superior in real life footage. I found that S-Video connection to OneTouch VC500 gave slightly better results.

PS. I am in Fort Lee.

Regarding 3D comb filter on real footage: I assume you've seen this?

http://notonbluray.com/blog/comb-tb-tests/

Thing is, no one makes an HDMI capture device aimed only at 480i capture. Even uncompressed 480p60 is well above USB 2.0 limits.

Presumably. It's possible that hidden registry settings, Linux driver settings ("source code under NDA"), and/or developer software could allow access to those registers. But at least with the eval board, AntcuFaalb can provide some pointers whenever he is around. With the capture card, you're completely on your own unless Magewell support helps out.

Well, hopefully this Mouser order doesn't sit in "backordered" purgatory, haha.

Maybe he was confused about the HDCP and non-HDCP versions? Sounds like great customer service... :screwy:

Understood, my interest in the TBC portion is just out of curiosity more than anything. Mainly interested in the comb filter. (My VHS home movies have been captured already... Although I still have all my gear.)

Interesting that S-Video worked best instead of composite, regardless of capture card. I assume it was the LD-S2 giving that result?

Not necessarily LD-S2. I captured with CLD-D703 using ATI TV Wonder PCIe version for composite and USB version for S-Video. I didn't notice difference. It's just that CLD-D703 produces grainer output compared to LD-S2 in both cases.

So, I don't have the TBS-185, but I do have the NRS30 by Snell and Wilcox. It's about the same vintage as the TBS-185. Some old discussion in a VHS context here:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...html#post15146

I tried the comb filter on it, and it seemed to be on par with the DMRES10, except it didn't mess up black levels or introduce MPEG-2 artifacts in the process like the Panasonic did. I need to do some further testing...

Order status has been updated to "In Shipping" ...

You think DMR-ES10 encodes to mpeg2 and then outputs the video? Or is it just posterization artifacts?

Hmm... maybe I just assumed? I thought I read at some point on these forums that posterization occurred because the signal was encoded to MPEG-2 to prepare it for recording to disc, and then DAC'ed downstream of that for output on the analog jacks... my memory could be incorrect, though.

Either way, no posterization on the Snell & Wilcox unit :)

So we have regular old school USB 2.0 capture sticks like ATI 600 USB or OneTouch VC500 which basically deliver 480i29.97 uncompressed in 4:2:2 color space.

Let me understand correctly. Theoretically HDMI then can also deliver lossless as long as input is not higher than 480i29.97. But since it is aimed at higher res, it is most likely compresses before delivering?

Even this small USB stick compresses in hardware?

https://www.startech.com/AV/Converte...nal~USB2HDCAPM

Yes to the quoted questions, except rather than "most likely", it's "necessarily". And regarding that particular device, it is not compatible with DirectShow anyway.

How are then about these?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._hdmi_usb.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...mi_to_usb.html

Does it explicitly have to say 480i?

The Inogeni one doesn't say that.

Besides confirming that they output uncompressed, there's no way to know how these devices perform without testing them. If you just read the specs page for USB3HDCAP you would assume it captures 4:2:2 input faithfully. User reviews might tell you whether something is a buggy piece of crap like the Intensity Shuttle, but not whether it captures bit-accurately.

Not sure I understand the question, but there are probably some HDMI capture devices that don't support 480i. As I said in email, it's an oddball resolution for HDMI:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/communi.../#post-4689890
http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/in...4237#msg254237

This is the reply I just got from the US Magewell distributor. Thoughts given the fact that the bare board doesn't seem to be available anymore?

*************
Hello Leonid,

“Pro Capture HDMI does use ADV7842.
We recommend your client to use Pro Capture HDMI to capture analog composite signal.
The chip does not configurable.
Our USB capture HDMI dongle does not use ADV7842, but USB Capture DVI plus uses ADV7842.
It will handle YCBCR 4:2:2
*************

The DVI version doesn't have Composite or S-Video in. Only component. Otherwise I would try it.

On a related note, I asked Analog if they could provide a list of manufacturers/products that use the ADV7842 chip. The response: "Our customer list is considered confidential. Thank you for your understanding."

Oh well...

Have you got the board?

I'm traveling for work but my wife says it was delivered :)

I won't get to play with it until next week, but I will start a thread with info when I do.

So, I've gotten to play with the board a little bit. My Video Essentials laserdisc is on the way. For now, I tried the board with a DMR-ES10 composite out > ADV7842 Board > HDMI in to Vizio TV.

Fantastic performance on the Snell & Wilcox test pattern still, but rainbows a bit on the moving zone plate.

Unfortunately, I can't get my new Blackmagic Intensity 4K to work with it. I'm getting an HDCP error... maybe the Blackmagic card is looking for an HDCP handshake and not getting it? (The eval board is non-HDCP).

I've posted over at Analog's EngineerZone forum to try and get some help. Stay tuned.

Be careful with Blackmagic. It skips (not just drops) frames without informing the end user.

Rainbows while it's moving are expected for any comb filter.

Without going into a rant, I returned my Blackmagic card. The HDMI input literally wouldn't work with anything (ADV7842 eval board, SDI to HDMI converter, Roku through a splitter known to strip HDCP...), even using their own "Express" capture software (not to mention VirtualDub or Adobe Premiere CC). My patience for crappy drivers on a current market product is much shorter than with, say, an old ATI card that's no longer supported.

I guess I'll go with the AverMedia C027 unless someone has a better recommendation?

I'll be looking into Magewell USB 3.0 HDMI cards. Like XI100XUSB-PRO.

I was recently reading up about this evaluation board EVAL-ADV7842-7511P and I want to ask a question on how it can be used to capture from a VCR using S-Video (Y/C), Can it send the captured video directly via USB or it has to be used with a digital USB device and the USB on board is just for setting up the card?
The reason for my interest in this card is their claim to have a "Line TBC" as well as a full frame TBC, Here is the claim. And here is the specifications.

The USB is just for board config - you'll need an HDMI capture card. That's why I fought with the BlackMagic card earlier in the thread and then got the AverMedia card instead, which worked fine.

I'll sell you my HDMI card and the ADV7842 board, I'm done capturing LD's and haven't gotten around to listing the gear for sale yet. PM me if you're interested.

To be honest I'm not interested in HDMI capture, I already have a similar workflow using the BrightEye 75 and a BM SDI/USB adapter, I found SDI lossless better than HDMI, it is more faithful to SD standards than HDMI, Oddly enough the BE75 uses an Analog Devices ADC chip not sure what's the ADV number though but it does have full frame TBC like the ADV7842.