Capturing Betacam SP tapes?
 

I've come across a few, and there's not the easy-to-locate wealth of information about capturing Betacam that there is about capturing VHS. So...where do I start?

The one thing I did turn up on Google was that it should be captured via component, not S-Video, which rules out my USB-Live2 capture device. Then from having mentioned this in another thread, something about balanced and unbalanced audio...

I have some experience with capturing U-matic, D1, BetacamSP, add Digital Betacam (aka DigiBeta). Those are broadcast formats, and unlike VHS/etc in almost every way. The workflows are different.

Most of the VTRs have BNC correction for s-video or component.

Your capture card setups are going to be different: Aja, Backmagic (blah), Matrox, etc.

The decks alone are about $30k each. It's been 5+ years since I last looked at anything like this, but I'm guessing it probably has no changed much. If anything, some of the hardware has probably gotten more expensive, as we've seen with other analog workflow hardware.

It's not easy to find this info online because the people who needed info knew it. It was B2B. Broadcast Engineering (magazine) had lots on it, and then you'll sometimes see it discussed on older threads at the Creative Cow forum.

This is a different beast. It can be daunting.

eBay seems to turn up quite a few for mere hundreds?

You should contact DigitalFreakNYC, since he was once in the same boat as you.

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/How...tapes/id/15141
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...ing-Betacam-SP

LS: any chance of editing in a reference back to the post that inspired this topic so sanlyn and I don't have to quote our original responses?

Do any truly have 2x BNC for S-Video? The Betacam players I saw with S-Video used the standard mini-DIN, with BNC for composite & component.

The most flexible would be one like the Sony J-30, which is a multi-format (Betacam/SP, SX, Digi, MPEG IMX) and multi-standard (NTSC & PAL) player. It's the only one I saw that has RCA audio output, and it adds i.Link DV (Firewire) and RCA composite "SUPER" to the typical assortment of video jacks (from what I've read the latter superimposes timecode, so possibly useless). Being built as a player-only, it will also be simpler to use than the typical editor-recorders, is physically smaller, and is even designed to operate standing vertically. Power supply is 100-240V @ 50/60Hz.

Having said that, any BetaSP player with SDI output (so, DigiBeta players with backwards compatibility) would provide the simplest and highest-quality workflow, if you are willing to add a new capture device. There are "/SDI" variants in the J-series that replace the analog component outputs with SDI output(s).

10-bit SD-HDI cap card for $4.18 shipped... US-only. Not sure about driver availability. More than 10 available, sold by a PC parts salvager, not a video guy, but with 30-day money back (buyer pays return ship).

Is PAL/NTSC a thing with these machines?

It's always a thing with analog video. And the other aspects of the standards (line count & Hz) are always a thing with digital video, too.

In terms of having to buy a PAL machine, though? Or are they compatible with both?

What's your guess: Would I have mentioned either of these attributes if either of them were true of every Betacam player?

Ad for crappy old composite-only player that runs on 100-120V 50/60 (JP/US):
Attachment 7641

Ah, sorry, clean missed the second parenthesis the first time around.

So what's the deal with the balanced audio and the BNC and everything else?

Google is your friend.
http://www.aviom.com/blog/balanced-vs-unbalanced/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BNC_connector

User manuals help with the rest.

User manuals for what?

Manuals for the Betamax components being discussed. They would likely explain the types of connections and their use.

The only things specifically mentioned were an SDI capture card, and the Sony J-30 which doesn't seem to have SDI output unless I'm misreading.

I'm not going to buy a J-30 just so I can read the manual to figure out what else I need; I'd like to be more organised in advance. Especially as it's not currently in my budget.

Misreading my post, yes.

I could have linked this page as well but I didn't think I'd need to spoonfeed.

Buy a piece of electronics to read the manual?! The PDF is literally the first Google result for J-30/SDI, even before any product pages show up.

I read that as saying the J30 didn't have SDI out but other models (for example, a J35) did, rather than as there being two version of the J30 specifically.


:smack:

In my defense, it's been a long week.

..and the question I meant to ask, but didn't: is one of the options (SDI/non-SDI) preferable to the other?

Do I need to add more bold to this sentence? :\

With SDI, you don't need to worry about balanced audio or BNC-RCA adapters. You hook up one BNC cable that carries an uncompressed digital video & audio stream. And this avoids a D-A-D step (most/all BetaSP players include a digital TBC).

That would probably defeat the point of bolding any of it.

I think I'm going to have to just re-read this whole thread when I've got less going on; clearly I'm doing very poorly at it thus far. I feel like reacting to this by banging my head on the desk, but that might just exacerbate the problem.


Digital-analog-digital?

You keep typing "Betamax" when the conversation is about BetacamSP.

Your fingers are not typing what your brain is telling it. :laugh:

That means you're getting more advanced. ;)

Most folks seem to be happy using Sony UVW-1400/1800 decks for BetaCamSP capture work. They seem to be readily available on ebay and from broadcast equipment dealers. The only feature of the format they don't support is the AFM audio tracks (recorded just like VHS Hi-Fi tracks are, by the video head). I don't know how common AFM tracks are on these tapes, if you really need it, the BVW decks support it (BVW-75 seems to be a popular model) and there were 3rd party encoders available for UVW and PVW decks.

If you aren't doing any large tape jobs, renting a deck is still an option if you live near a major city.

FYI: Any work I did on these formats was with equipment that was provided to me; they owned the decks.

I didn't want to do the projects, and I was uncomfortable with the format and hardware. However, it was essentially identical to any other analog tape workflow. The output was the annoying part, but I just do not remember what I had to use. This was 5-10 years ago for me. Fairly certain BNC was involved. In fact, I think it was the first time I'd seen BNC s-video (yet not actually separated s-video).

Working with SDI sucks. I'd stay away from that, not make your non-pro/non-live projects overcomplicated.

The Sony J-30 looks nice, compact, dirt cheap (~$1k). Note the handle on the side of the unit. This was a portable.

The Sony UVW-1400/1800 looks nice, also cheap.

Beware of eBay. About 80% of all VCRs are crap, not working, even if claimed otherwise (including "tested"). Those are real stats, too, not pulled-from-air numbers, been doing research with others.

So I should use SDI, and also I should avoid SDI. Righto.

Explain. The only issue I've had is the same as with HDMI capture: some card(s) manipulate the video rather than just passing it through as-is.

Uncompressed (SDI) = huge files = not fun to work with

SDI is "must have" only if the tapes were originally digital. With Betacam SP, things have gotten easier with the proliferation of component capture cards. SDI doesn't have to be captured uncompressed. If the capture card supports DirectShow, you can use HuffYUV and other lossless codecs.

Well, I'll leave you three to talk about it, and come back when you've reached a decision.

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/imag.../ZlgNxwI-1.gif

I picked up a UVW-1200 (player only) for $100 on eBay and lucked out. Had only 10 hours on it. A little cleaning and lube and it works great. It has an s-video mini-DIN on the back.

UVW-1200 with 10 hours is unlikely. The battery for the meter runs out at some point. But if it works it works. I've had 3 different generations of BetacamSP. UVW-1200 is the cheapo light model of the latest generation. Picture quality is not as good as with the broadcast models but it's ok.

BetacamSP component is very easy to capture with 100€+ Blackmagic card for example. Output is clean, no need for all the crap we have to deal with with VHS etc. If using Blackmagic, there's an option for "Betacam levels" too.

I do have an Intensity Shuttle I use for capturing from my cable box. But I can only capture MJPEG through that, which is wreaking havoc with those captures even outside of compression issues with restoration.

Intensity Shuttle is lossless capture device. MJPEG is used by the software. Try different capture software. VirtualDub has worked fine for me with BM.

Yes, it is. But the machine had no sign of wear inside and I believe meter values are stored in unpowered EEPROM. The UVW series has a luminance bandwidth of 4 MHz, which is 0.2 MHz shy of broadcast quality. Obtaining a 4.5 MHz BVW deck in good condition, however, is an expensive proposition these days.

Did it? I have vague memoreis of trying that and not having much success. The software it comes with can allegedly capture uncompressed, but it requires a really high disk speed and I'm not sure how to obtain that.

Can you explain the 'betacam levels' thing?

VirtualDub can use lossless codecs which will give smaller filesize.

Intensity doesn't support Betacam levels. I made the assumption that Decklink and Intensity share the same settings, sorry about that. It might not matter anyway because:

I'm aware VirtualDub can capture losslessly, I've captured VHS tapes that way. I just remember trying VDub with my Intensity Shuttle and it not working, although I don't recall the specifics. Might have to set it up and give it another shot.

If I select the BlackMagic device under 'Device' in VDub, then go to 'Video->Video source', it merely lists 'No video sources'.

After choosing Direct Show there's nothing in "Video source" with Decklink either. Doesn't need to be. Capture works without.

Attached you find the relevant parts of my setup. YMMV.

Do you also have no preview? Not sure how I'd start and stop capture at the appropriate time...

There is preview when there's signal (and all input settings are correct and matching in Blackmagic Control Panel and VirtualDub). I don't have Intensity at hand so I can't help further. Many people use it with other than Blackmagic's software so it just needs some tinkering. Good luck.

Nope, can't get it to recognise the Shuttle at all. I select 'Blackmagic WDM Capture' as the capture device, but it lists no video or audio source, there's no preview, and most of the menu items are greyed out.