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Looking more into the histogram ordeal, and knowing more about audio then I do video, I stumbled onto this video on youtube wich really helped me understand a few things.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htqrTTSZp-M Thanks a million for the reply! The more you info you feed me, the more I want to know things ha. I appreciate this VERY much!:congrats: |
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Sometimes the exposure is such that the transition works anyway without special help, and viewers understand the change in lighting. Sometimes it's not so easy. In capturing, you soon find a way to find the worst case scenario and set up for it, then tweak later. On rare occasions I use an Avisynth plugin called HDRagc, which does some exposure and backlight compensation. If you use it on full auto you can blow a picture apart. Instead, I tame things changing some of HDRagc's parameters (there are about a dozen of them, fully explained in the filter's download). Most auto filters are as bad as the agc in cameras and do exactly what you don't want at exactly the wrong time. Otherwise, it's not uncommo0n to chop a capture into many segments that are processed separately, then rejoined later. A thread that will show you some Avisynth scripts with these special filters and the before/after home videos that made me desparate enough to use them is in this post: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...huffyuv-2.html. Exposure correction required work in the original YUV, while color correction and other filters were in RGB with Virtualdub. The earlier part of the same thread, FYI, has a lot of detail on Avisynth and VirtualDub filters in common use. Avisynth and VirtualDub are essential repair tools, each compliments the other. Avisynth seems scary until you realize that it's just a sequential series of commands run in Virtualdub using the same battery of filters over and over for almost everything. But it is somewhat strange to see a filter named "nnedi3_rpow2", which sounds petty cryptic until you learn that it's only a specially-honed filter to resize an image by 2X. Looks daunting but acts like a puppy in use. Quote:
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Image2.jpg = Assumed DV with analog tape source, obvious timing wiggles. ie, no TBCs.
Image3.jpg = Assumed to be analog capture via Hauppauge USB, smeary/blurry, at least partially due to deinterlace. If I'm reading correctly, also due to bad resizing, etc. You filtered at capture time, and should never do that. That's what I see. |
Thanks again for the replies guys. I have been busy the last 2 days doing audio projects for a couple bands to get tracks ready for mixing engineers. Today I have some time off, so I am back to add on....
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Ok guys, at the request of Lordsmurf, I am attempting to capture some video via VHS.
I just got my Panasonic AG-1980 today, and I am am not sure if I am doing everything right for the histogram ordeal. Here is what is happening... Like I stated in a previous post in this thread, the histogram would be all black, or hardly working. I figured out how to get it to work correctly, but there is still some annoying complications going on. In order for me to see the video I am capturing with the Happauge Live 2, I need to select 'Overlay' in the video tab on Vdub. This mode, makes the histogram NOT respond at all. It's all black, or has very few blue graph showing, and it does not move at all. If I switch to 'preview' mode,the histogram works/moves around with video without any issues. The problem with that is, the video itself goes away and doesn't show, so I can't see the video itself to see exactly what changes I am making to it. I have to switch back and forth between 'Overlay' mode and 'Preview' mode to get a happy balance for the histogram. Is this normal? I am testing this with a VHS video that is probably a challenge as a whole. Figured that wouldn't be a bad place to start. It's a dark/dingy location with a live band playing, where stage lights of all sorts of colors are flashing randomly. It's coming from a VHS-C tape inside the VHS adapter, recorded in SLP mode, being played back in the Panasonic AG-1980. I didn't make any ajustments on the 1980, other then making sure the TBC was on, and turning off 'S-VHS' option. I am assuming that was correct since the current VHS-C is not a S-VHS tape? I adjusted the brightness/contrast based on what I thought I should by looking at the histogram, but I am not sure about changes to hue, saturation, sharpness, ect should be made because none of them seemed to make the histogram change much. Wasn't sure if it was because they don't effect the histogram, or if the video itself and the way it was shot was causing it. I also set the cropping values all back to 0 after looking at the histogram levels so it was not cropped while capturing, unlike the Hi8 capture earlier. I have attached a sample for you. Let me know what you think, please! |
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Thanks for the new sample. Nice job.
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There's a special setup for audio and USB capture, also in the guide. Quote:
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Nice capture. I set the black levels a little darker, which is an arbitrary choice that adds a little "snap" to the image without blocking up shadows. On TV it will be visibly brighter than on a PC. It's amazing that amateurs think they can shoot in dark available light and get the same results Hollywood gets with 6 hours of setup and gigawatts of lighting. As usual the consumer camera fills the frame with plenty of grainy residual CMOS noise. It's good that you had the AG-1980 for tyhis -- it reduces CMOS a little but keeps detail (a JVC would have turned this video to mush). The rest is post-processing, with QTGMC (Step 1) to do an initial cleanup and TemporalDegrain (Step 2) with some 16-bit tweaks for the heavy lifting. All are very slow filters, CPU intensive, so I had to run the script in 2 steps. I encoded two versions, one 480i for DVD, then 640x480 square pixel for the 'net. Step 1 script (used for Step 2 DVD and Step 2 web output): Code:
AviSource("E:\forum\faq\Liberty610\B\vhs_sample.avi") Code:
[# ------- Load 16-bit DITHER plugins ------------ Code:
# ------- Load 16-bit DITHER plugins ------------ |
It might make more sense if I correct a couple of lines in the script from above that creates the double frame rate progressive 59.94 fps version for web posting (I forgot to change the input avi file name name from my own copy of the original):
Step 2 for 59.94 fps 480p web use (uses Step 1 as YV12 input): Code:
# ------- Load 16-bit DITHER plugins ------------ Lagarith: https://lags.leetcode.net/codec.html If you adapt these scripts for your own use, be certain to change the path statements to the actual location of various files in your own system. In my case I keep all updates to the 16-but dither plugin package in a separate folder in my Avisynth program files, to maintain compatibility with older scripts. |
Wow! Those AVisynth codes worked awesome! I have not dabbled in AVisynth yet, so it's still somewhat greek to me, but the fact that those clips turned out like that from one of my captures is exciting to see!
I am in between projects this week, and I am not sure how often I will be back to add on to this topic, but I am thrilled with the results of that video. I am still having a hard time wrapping my head around the YUY2 ordeal and what not, but again; it is encouraging to see the results I can get from my captures if I continue to learn the AVIsynth coding. Will these two codes you posted be a standard in most VHS captures? Or does it vary from project to project. I have about 39 hours of VHS footage I now see I should be re-capturing and prepping for my archive. Speaking of, what is best for archiving to a hard drive? That is one of my biggest hobbies and passions when it comes to my personal collection. I have 2 hard drives for a total of 6TBs that are for nothing but my personal vidoes, audio recordings, and videos; all sorted by date. From 2008 and on is all raw digital files from either MiniDV tapes (HDV) or tape-less cameras with memory cards (or cell phone video files). But these analog captures? do i capture them, then do all the edits into a compressed file of some sort? Or do I try and keep the raw AVI files to make changes to them after? |
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This isn't to disparage VirtualDub, which has its own virtues. Besides being a great tool for running AVisynth scripts and saving files in lossless or encoded formats, it has several dozen filters of its own and has great tools for color correction. Quote:
For every 4 chunks of "Y" data, YUY2 stores 2 "U" pixels and 2 "V" pixels. It's known as a 4:2:2 system. The YV12 colorspace, used in DVD, BluRay, broadcasting, internet, and DV, stores 1 "U" and 1 "V" pixel for every 4 "Y" pixels. So it's classed as either 4:1:1 or 4:2:0 depending on how the chroma is stored. RGB, used for display, is a different story. In RGB, each pixels stores data for brightness and all three colors in the same data chunk (4:4:4). If you vary brightness you also vary the brightness of all colors. You can work with each R, G, or B color separately without affecting the others, and with RGB you have the advantage of being able to use color tools that can work with extremely precise targeted color ranges -- very helpful with nonlinear color response as with VHS. Avisynth has buuilt-in functions for clean and precise color conversion -- something that many high-priced NLE's perform either incorrectly or with less than stellar results. For example, Avisynth requires that you specify whether a video is interlaced or not, which some NLE's simply ignore. Yes, it does matter. Quote:
Now and then you encounter really horrible problems like severe dropouts (snowy static, white or black horizontal ripples, spots of all kinds, etc.) for which there are other specific filters. VirtualDub has some good tweak filters like temporalsmoother and CamcorderColorDenoise, and good ones for color work like ColorMill, gradation curves, and a battery of different histograms in ColorTools. FYI, when I started this insane endeavor I had approx 350 hours of tapes, most of them in terrible condition recorded on cheap VCRs with a bad incoming cable signal. Pristine video isn't much of a problem. It's bad video that requires learning. Quote:
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Thanks for color space lesson. I will look around at some more in depth information, but your basic explanation here makes a lot of sense to me. I always got confused when I saw people talking about the color sapcing and numbers ordeal, and just never really ventured in to it.
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Anyways, I didn't have a huge amount of tapes for the camera, so I was always dropping the tapes into a VHS-C adapter, throwing together 2 VCRs (all my family had 2 or more for dubbing purposes), and once I copied them over, I ended up recording over the VHS-C tapes to reuse them. Rinse and repeat this quite a few times, and you can see where I started to have some pretty worn out VHS-C tapes that I was using to record with. However, a lot of the VHS tapes that I used to copy the VHS-C tapes over to where brand new and only used for copying the home movies too. So I would say 28 of the 6 hour VHS tapes I have full of home movies where brand new, and only used to copy home movies over to. The only other wear and tear they have seen are playback. But the VHS-C tapes where lack luster at best, and there are several of the videos that have some damage to them, but it was because of the VHS-C tapes they were recorded from.I am not sure if much of these issues can be fixed because the source tape was the bad tape, or not. I feel like now that this 8mm capture thread has been some what hijacked to the VHS topic. So, should we jump back over to my original VHS thread I started to continue? The link for that is here: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...roper-vhs.html Quote:
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I haven't experienced VHS-C work and know it only from what I see in other posts. The only camera recordings I've worked with personally were VHS, and they're all nightmares because of the way the cameras were (mis-)handled. WIth any tape format, tape-to-tape dubs are generally awful and require some patience. Some of the noise is mechanically caused and problems such as scanline sync distortion are unfortunately permanent aspects of the recordings and can't be corrected by a tbc during capture. Still, people do what they can with these dubs. The tapes remain important, and while they can't be fully corrected they can be improved.
If VHS is now a focus for you, probably better to return to that thread. |
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