Possible Mac capture options in 2018: Aja, Brighteye, Blackmagic?
 

Hi,

I'm embarking on a project to digitize ~200 (maybe more) old VHS tapes. (It's time; I need to make the space.) I've been reading the forums extensively and learning a great deal. I'm a Mac person, and it didn't seem like there were good options for this platform, particularly for lossless capture. I was planning on taking the most suggested route (building a Win95 PC with an AIW card), but the thing that kept me from pulling the trigger is that I wanted to edit the (lossless) video on the Mac.

After much research, I came across this, the AJA Io HD:

https://www.aja.com/products/io-hd

It can capture up to lossless 10 bit 4:2:2 (overkill with a VCR, obviously) video over FireWire 800. Released in ~2012, the price was about $3K, but thanks to technology's march, I snagged on one on eBay for under $150. The downside is that the drivers only work through macOS 10.10, but that's not a big deal - I can boot from an external drive.

Reading about TBCs on this forum I thought it would be great to find something that output a digital signal - with a PC, one would be going from analog (VCR) to digital back to analog (TBC) then digital again. I read reasonably positive things about BrightEye boxes and determined that the ideal model for me was the BrightEye 3:

https://www.ensembledesigns.com/products/brighteye/be03

This is a TBC with frame sync that outputs to SDI, which the AJA takes. I like that it's one less A/D conversion. I was super lucky and found one on eBay for $30. I'm hoping that if I plug the audio straight into the AJA I won't have sync issues.

I continued to do research and found a more modern option -- the BlackMagic UltraStudio HD Mini:

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/pro...pecs/W-DLUS-10

Again, this takes an SDI input (as well as analog audio/video) and also captures up to 10 bit 4:2:2 uncompressed. It retails at $495, but again I got lucky and found one on eBay for much less. It works over Thunderbolt, but too late did I realize that it's only Thunderbolt 3 and I only have Thunderbolt 2 computers. This is fine as I will certainly get a new computer before the project is finished. I also saw the UltraStudio MiniRecorder (which takes an SDI input and can capture uncompressed video over Thunderbolt), but I couldn't think of a way to capture the audio with that.

I won't be able to test any of this out before the weekend. I thought I might post here what I have found as possible options for the Mac. Fingers crossed none of the equipment is bad (a PC remains plan B). I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who has used any of this equipment. I'd also be happy to perform tests for the curious as I've not seen this equipment mentioned much on this forum.

Cheers,
Demitri

As far as the Brighteye, source matters. A TBC is not a TBC, and TBC is a wide term that covers too many things. It was made for a studio setting/workflow, with higher end source. You'll have issues with VHS, and other consumer analog sources. It expects master-quality BetacamSP and similar. I wish you well with it, and you may get lucky in that your tapes cooperate with it. But I'd not bet money on it.

For example, a post from here, a few years back: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...pture-sdi.html
That sort of feedback has been consistent over the years.

Ensembles own marketing materials were just BS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXpcj9tRWMQ
Reminds me of Canopus. Too many factually challenged statements.

Blackmagic will admit to you that their devices are not intended for consumer analog, like VHS, and are intended for higher-end studio source. Those are essentially HD devices with a craptastic SD mode. (The one workaround, however, is if you upscale the SD to HD pre-capture, but that gets into buying more hardware, and complicating your workflow hardware chain. But it is doable.)

It's a lot of headache to even attempt a non-DV capture on Mac, especially when quality Windows options are about $100 plus the computer. And if you need a computer, you can build something new for under $500, or scrap out existing used parts (and buy a few select items from eBay) in order to get it working.

I have been using the BE3 successfully with its SDI to analogue counterpart, but I never got to testing the SDI output successfully with another third party device.

I did get hold of a KDS Leeza that has SDI input but with the BE3's TBC on the picture looked oddly pixelated and was better with it off, but that defeated the object of using it.

Another option for your Mac is to run Bootcamp. You could use that to do your capturing in Windows then switch back to OS X for editing. This has worked for me on my Macbook.

Off topic but LordSmurf I'm wondering how to gauge the quality of a TBC? Perhaps a subject for a separate thread. I've 3 devices now with TBC's and it would be good to know how to determine which is best.

The most important factor is having a test bed of analog sources, especially many VHS tapes, where you know what the errors are. Then you see how each TBC reacts to those errors.

You also have to insure that the test unit is fine, not just assume it is. That sort of sloppy unscientific method is why video forums often have "conflicting" info (because one person is just flat out wrong). Unless somebody has seen a lot of copies of hardware, it's not always an accurate assessment of the device model.

When it comes to TBCs, I've used/tested hundreds of units. Not exaggerating here. :woot:

Thanks LordSmurf. I won't carry on here but will start a new thread once I have a chance to play. :salute:

Hi,

I wanted to post an upgrade on my progress. I've been using the hardware described above (AJA IO HD, BrightEye 3 TBC, iMac mid-2011). My JVC HR-S9600U had the TBC/NR turned on. I first tried a capture without the BrightEye TBC to see how much difference it made. To be honest, I couldn't see much difference when I repeated the test with it in line. I posted two video files for anyone curious to see the result:

Codec: Apple uncompressed 4:2:2 10 bit
https://www.dropbox.com/s/iyq5qtd17u...t%208.mov?dl=0

Above compressed with Compressor to H.264 at 5 Mbps
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8w7dzds3t2...H.264.mp4?dl=0

It's hard for me to judge the success of this. I don't have duplicate components to switch out (VCR, TBC, etc.) for testing, so I don't know how close I am to the maximal quality of the VHS tape itself (recorded off TV and sat in a box for ~25 years). The picture is stable; it's watchable. Given the above, I'd be curious to hear how the result compares to what one would expect. I know nothing about color correcting video - is this something I should consider, or just encode the video as it is and move on?

The video is (notably) interlaced, but it appears to be progressive upon capture. I will need to see how I can correct this (and at which step!).

Finally, the AJA device doesn't take RCA audio inputs, but rather mono XLR. I purchased a cable that goes from RCA to XLR, but after reading I think this not properly addressing the situation. The audio captured is at a very low level. I'm guessing that I need perhaps a preamplifier to go from the unbalanced RCA to balanced XLR? I was not able to find a clear answer on this.

Thanks!

The AJA expects professional gear level analog audio. The spec sheet speaks to +15/18/24 dbu input level for Full Scale Digital audio recording, perhaps +4 dBu allowing for headroom. Consumer VCRs such as your JVC output a nominal -10 dbV, substantially lower. A preamp or simple mixer can address the issue.

Thanks for the detailed info. I only have a phono preamp myself which I suspect is not the right thing. I found one of these on my local Craigslist - would this be appropriate?

https://www.amazon.com/Behringer-802...language=en_US

I can repurpose it when I finally learn to play guitar. :) If not, is there something you could recommend in the sub-$50 range?

That Berhinger Xenyx is very nice, almost identical to my Tapco (Mackie).

The Berhinger is a good choice. Personally I am partial to Mackie based on their better documentation and meters. (I have a Mackie 802 and Berhinger 602).

A DJ mixer isn't a better option than a PA mixer in this case ? a PA mixer has a lot of instrument inputs you are not going to use.
A DJ Mixer has better options i guess and a crossfader, if needed. and multi options for various devices.

Demetri, which MAC do you have ? do you have Thunderbolt 2 ?
If so, checkout the Intensity Shuttle (thunderbolt 2 interface) from Blackmagic Desin you can capture in ProRes LT, which is compressed, the files aren't that big that way, good quality and low data transfer rate to your storage device.
Lossless capturing is also possible if you want to, but you need large and fast storage space, you'll find out.
I'm very happy with the Intensity Shuttle, (you should not go for the USB version.)
It has HDMI, Component, S-Video, Composite video inputs, and analog audio RCA input, Also same for outputs,
A Thunderbolt 2 output for your MAC.
You should not use a Microsoft PC to capture on, MAC is the easy way to go, using the BMD hard and software,
is my experience .

For purposes of this thread You are seeking amplification. Go for what ever best fits your budget, workflow and potential other uses.

If you are a died-in-the-wool MAC user, it will be easier for you. Just be aware that it may be difficult to achieve the same level of end results with a MAC.

Some BM products have issues with getting captured SD analog video YUV levels right. Can't speak to the Shuttle though, so you should research it more.

nice of you to answer for him :)

I'm not aware of there being any difference in the connection types, in affecting the cature chips, and the issue with SD of unreported dropped frames. Blackmagic themselves state that these devices are intended for pro sources (BetacamSP, analog-in D1/D2, etc, maybe even U-matic at worst), and not consumer formats (VHS, S-VHS, Hi8, Video8, etc).

The test 8.mov has Aja's proprietary codec, which I really don't need to install in my Windows machine (Win7 in this case, which I also use for lossless capture sometimes). Both captures are soft and and smeared, especially with JVC's dnr. This looks like EP tape (?). Both captures have illegal video levels that exceed y=16-235, and some badly crushed blacks that will look worse when converted to RGB. There's nothing you can do to get more detail in the samples, since detail can't be created from nothing. Edges are pretty noisy, made worse by the frame height (mod-2, which does not translate well for YV12 and h.264, which requires at least mod4 in all dimensions). Many filters and some encoders will demand mod8, which fits every standard out there. Mod-2 is a problemn in many ways.

The samples are hard-telecined, but even the non-telecined frames have buzzy, sawtooth edges. Encoding the mp4 as progressive screws up YV12 chroma and telecined frames. Any cleanup or levels repair called for fancy cropping and rebuildingh frame borders, not to mention removing telecined fields. If what was wanted was true 4:3 square-pixel frames, a height of 486 in a 640-wide frame is not 4:3 (or 1.3333:1), it's 1.316:1. There are 4 unused black pixels on the left and 10 pixels of the same on the right (not unusual with this SMPTE frame format), 12 pixels of head-switching noise along the bottom, and 6 lines of broken pixels across the top. I also see edge oversharpening and dct ringing effects at the same time as posterizing with smeared detail and false contouring in faces and hair. These effects are common with JVC players and are often present to a lesser extent with Panasonics.

The original color is badly yellowed, grimy, and dim, with obvious chroma shift 4 pixels to the right. I made mostly levels corrections but rather mild color fixes notably to reduce some red-yellow imbalance and pump up blue a little. It appears that the overall balance was intended to lean toward the warm side.

For color correction: as long as whites look white, grays look gray, and blacks look black, with little or no obvious off-color tints, everything else will fall into place. The sample didn't need much correction, but what I used in VirtualDub was gradation curves, ColorMill, and a low-mid-high levels control - all of which mimic controls found in Adobe Premiere Pro, FCP, and other high-end apps.

With telecine removed in Avisynth using the TIVTC plugin and QTGMC as a denoiser and smoother, the attached progressive (for real) mp4 plays at the original 23.976 film speed. You could add 3:2 pulldown and encode to MPEG for DVD, or encode to MPEG or h.264 for standard def BluRay, and get 29.97 fps playback. But telecined video won't post on most 'net sites unless something has changed that I'm not aware of (not a fan of video off the internet, so I haven't checked in a very long time).

This thread can serve as another example of why analog source directly to lossy codecs isn't recommended, especially if modification and repair are intended. These samples show how noise is amplified by lossy codecs and by gear not optimized for tape capture, as well as how detail is lowered on re-encoding after cleanup when noise is removed, showing just how soft the lossy capture really is -- a tradeoff that has to be considered from the very start. The attached test8mp4_640x480_23.976.mp4 is an example of basic denoising and levels work with Avisynth and VirtualDub. There could be more edge cleanup, but that would entail more loss. Of course, if no cleanup or correction is desired then what you see in the original mp4 sample is as clean as it will get.

The Avisynth script I used:

A frame from the original test 8 5mbps, with motion in the frame:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/atta...1&d=1536448664

The same frame after, from the attached mp4, filtered, borders and frame rebuilt:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/atta...1&d=1536448736

I managed to get Avisynth's LSMASHSource plugin to decode "Test 8.mov" without Aja's c odec (don't know why I didn't think of it earlier). Anyway, the lossless or near-lossless codec holds up better than the lossy mp4 after filtering and encoding. Color nuance seems rather odd, however, and was tougher to correct. Still not satisfied with it. The lossless video preserved more detail -- such as it is, after JVC's dnr and other processing got hold of it. There's a little more chroma smearing and false contouring than the other sample but detail is cleaner overall. With less compression noise in the lossless file I was able to use less filtering.

You can't use really strong edge denosing or fancy sharpening because of the tape player's aggressive dnr. Ordinarily I would elect to turn off JVC's noise reduction and use more sophisticated filtering in software, but Mac doesn't have more sophisticated filtering available unless you invest a whole lot more money in software or go for Windows.

The attached mp4 was inverse telecined and resized with Spline36Resize for square-pixel playback at 4:3. But after some cleanup and removing the noisy original telecine the 720x480 capture would be the ideal frame size for DVD or standard def BluRay encoding with 3:2 pulldown and authoring. 720x480 also gives you more horizontal resolution to work with.

You can run avisynth (outside of plugins using OpenCL, but there are not lot of those) and VirtualDub (except the capture functionality) in a Virtual Machine (using VirtualBox/VMWare etc) on MacOS, so that is an option. You don't really even need a win10 license as you can use it fine without activating unless you have a massive need to change the windows theme/background for some reason.

Alternatively, vapoursynth runs natively on macos but it's a bit clunky to set up.

You did a nice job there Sanlyn, any color correcting i do here with Davinci Resolve the free version, it can be done in detail, but i pick the white point and black point in the image and that is most of the time good, or needs a little adjustment.
I was lucky enough to have a vcr with component (yuv) outputs,( i first thought it was only for the optical drive) and have less artifacts like composite would have.
Davinci has also some nice correcting options in way of crop, mask, or transform, output resolution will always be one of the official ones,when rendering, allthough ProRes422 is a lossy codec it will be not visible for the work we do, only ProRes422 Proxy might show some at a 2nd or 3rd generation copy,(i use ProRes422 LT during capture) I do sometimes use Handbrake, or MacX Video Convertor to encode to MP4 at the end, because thats just fast to work with, Hybrid i try to use, but it crashes a lot on my MacBook Pro, and it wont accept PCM audio, or does not work at all, which settings i try to use.
Recently i also captured a NTSC tape on the Panasonic VCR i have, and with the simple deinterlace option Handbrake have, gave it a good result, (i had the comb filter off on the Panasonic ) i will try this again with the Progressive mode on, and comb filter on, who will win ? :)

Yes, least compressed ProRes422 looks great, be it Mac native or FFMPEG version.

I've never like proxy formats. That includes Cineform.

That's a decent tool.

That's a shame. Most video software has bugs. I've never gotten the Hybrid embedded Avisynth to work in Windows.

I'm fairly certain it uses Yadif natively, which can be fine, depending on content. But still not as good as QTGMC, especially with the advanced script switches.

if i Google QTGMC, (just now), ....first thing they say it's heavy on CPU usage, but a good one that has many options, but i didn't find if i could use it on my MacBook, is it a kind of plugin ?
To deinterlace in Davinci's option and also rescale takes queit a time... compared, and is a part of the Studio version, so it is watermarked for me.
A disadvantage of Davinci is, that a render to H264 takes quiet a time, and gives a big H264 file, to my likings, :(

btw. i also just captured from my Sony PSP hand console (pre-Vita) it gives a (composite) NTSC tv signal i discovered, no black or dropped frames, funny :) I've also LaserDisc players, Pioneer, and Philips, the Philips i won in a Firato competion,
but has a drawer failure, i caused myself.

QTGMC is a script for Avisynth, and must be run in Windows. Yet another reason Windows is the tool of choice for video, not Mac. It can sorta run in Linux, but the best way is to just create a Windows 7 VM in Virtualbox. The main 3 OS all have Virtualbox (Linux, Mac, Windows).

I've never messed with LD, but I find posts from our LD members to be quite interesting.

I too have embarked on capturing the family collection of home videos on VHS. If I had a PC, I'd probably take the easy route, but I already have several Macs, including a MacPro that originally came with OSX Lion that I'm not using. I used to work with an AJA IOHD form SD-SDI sources back in my editing days, I don't recall ever ingesting any S-Video sources though. Anyhow, I still have access to the AJA IOHD, and I have a little Yamaha mixer. I still have a crappy Sony VCR, but the quality is terrible and no TBC that I am aware of. So I grabbed a JVC HR-S9600U off ebay and wow, the tapes play back great on it and everything is capturing nice quality to ProRes 422 720x486 29.97 with good audio levels (no choices but it's ending up Linear PCM, big-endian signed integer, 48,000 hz). Keep in mind, I'm not starting with any pristine footage. Most all of it was recorded on a Sears Camcorder that had terrible auto settings and the tapes are not the best they made. Anyhow, of the 4 tapes I've left unattended to capture while doing other stuff... only 1 had 3 frames reported as dropped by AJA capture app.

BUT (always a but), the clips have an audio sync issue. They start off in sync, but as the video ages, the audio drifts off. I vaguely remember having a similar issue back in the day, but I seem to have pruned the memories of the fix. At first I thought maybe it was a premiere import issue, but when I open them in Quicktime Player, they are off there too. The REALLY interesting part is that it doesn't appear to be linear, so I'm guessing there are frame issues somewhere. I can't seem to find any reference in the AJA settings for specifying drop-frame vs non-drop if that is even an issue. And I am obviously not using a variable frame rate codec.

I know it's not linear because I changed the sequence display to frames and went to the end of my longest capture and dropped a couple of markers, where sync should be, and it was about 400 frames off. I used to speed duration adjustment to shrink up the audio that fraction of a percent and got those markers to line up. But then I went to the middle of the sequence and it was off a second or two there still.

I'm still digging, but I thought I would post on this more updated thread to see if anyone has been using the AJA IO HD and experienced this. I know I'm missing something, probably super simple.

A few more facts:

I've tried ProRES 422, FCP Uncompressed 10-bit, and a couple of AJA's own Codecs... same issue across all of them.


My AJA settings:

Source Video = S-Video 525i 29.97 (both 10-bit and 8-bit)
Source Audio = Balanced Input 1 & 2 525i 29.97

Capture Settings > Compression = ProRes 422 HQ I specified 29.97 for frames per second under Motion settings because by default it was set to Best and I thought maybe that might be jacking something up, but didn't make a difference either.

Playback Timing = Freerun I tried Video In as well, even though I know there is no timecode in the s-video feed... did not change the outcome.

All the other settings are pretty straight forward.

Any ideas?

Probably not related to your sync issues, but if you're still on Lion, can you capture to Huffyuv via the Perian codec pack? I can't remember of those were playback only or if they were useable for captures.

Erich

I'm pretty sure HuffYUV is a windows only codec... I checked the download and it's in Microsoft Dynamic Link Library format. I did try ProRes and Lossless Apple Codecs, plus I tried a couple of AJA's codecs. I might download Cineform and try that, but I think the audio issue is something the AJA IoHD is doing or a frame rate problem. I'll play with it some more this afternoon, but I feel like I've thrown every setting I can think of at the AJA. So weird.

There are 2 flavors of HuffYUV listed in the Perian codec pack, that's why I asked. It's the only way I've ever seen to have it in Mac, and unfortunately it doesn't work on newer Mac OS. https://www.perian.org

As for your audio synch issues, it sounds like unreported dropped frames. Lordsmurf and oters much more knowledgeable than I will most likely recommend a TBC.

Erich

Oh yeah, I forgot about Perian! I'm running 10.7 on the Macbook for this project, so I'll go ahead and install regardless of the issue so I can use HuffYUV over ProRes anyhow. Thanks!

I was going to dig into the potential for sync/dropped frames today with a few tests. I had the AJA set to report not abort but report the dropped frames. On one of the tapes, it reported 3 dropped frames. I would like to think that's an indicator that it is doing it's job, but ya know.

I'll look into an external TBC on here, I did confirm that the TBC in the JVC unit is on and functioning. I was under the impression that getting this unit with a built-in would maybe spare me having to have another piece of hardware, but ya know... doing things the hard way. : )

The built-in TBC is most likely a line type TBC, but you'll likely also need an external full frame TBC.

Erich

Ah, that makes sense. The quality is improved, but the timing, not so much. Thanks. So any recommendations on an external TBC for S-Video?

Found the TBC FAQ. Looks like I may have waited too long... this may be a challenge to find one. Only seeing a couple of the black box AVT-8710's on ebay. Anyone selling anything affordable?

I wouldn't say "too late" yet. Five TBC-1000 sold on 'Bay in the last two months. The challenge is that its like winning a lottery, so you don't know what condition they are in unless you buy from a trustworthy source.

Format converters from Kramer usually have to perform frame sync before performing format conversion, so they would be another option. Kramer specialized in the era when s-video was most common. External TBCs are mostly performing vertical sync reconstruction.

DVD recorders, with or without HDD also have to stabilize the frame sync before recording, some pass-thru their result on their outputs even while not recording. NTSC recorders almost all had s-video connectors, PAL it was more common in the UK, SCART had a s-video options, but they were more complicated.

FWIW:Some analog video mixers; e.g., Videonics MX-series, included frame synchronizers that provided some TBC functionality. But they are generally not low cost and subject to the usual cautions about used gear..

@tkt2rde you know for sure your sync/dropped frames issue is not due to transfer speed rate to your storage media during the capture ?

I have not tested the throughput but it’s an older Lacie 2Big Thunderbolt JBOD Enclosure I tossed a couple of new 3TB Seagate 7200 drives into it that were spares I never used from a RAID system I used to have. It’s definitely not yhe fastest, but I’m pretty sure it can sustain writes of over 300 Mb sec. at least... maybe?

BlackMagic Design have a free disk speed test app that lists read/write speeds as well as a chart for compatibility for various video resolutions.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/blac...25264550?mt=12

Erich

I used to use that, but it also used to require Blackmagic hardware be detected to run. I was gonna check it out, but it looks like it's only compatible with 10.10 or newer. : (

Oops, forgot you were on Lion. Totally unrelated, but I just found a full Final Cut Studio 3 for $38 on ebay. Talk about depreciation!

Erich