JVC HR-S9600 TBC settings modes?
Learning to use a JVC HR-S9600. Good beast. Tbc is very efficient, but the manual is very unclear about the different settings. My concern is about interlacing. Want to keep it and manage deinterlace myself.
It seems "edit" mode keeps it, but not auto or '+' and '-" sharpness. Sometimes it seems random ... Will go on with testing but if anybody used to this model, advices are welcome. thanks |
TBC = ON
Calibration = OFF. Supposedly this would help the tape track better, but it never worked well, excluding some of the highest end later SR units. Calibratin ON/OFF is what changes AUTO/NORM settings name, though it essentially means the same thing. Picture mode = NORM/AUTO removes chroma noise especially, some errant tape noises. Sometimes this setting harms the image, as can the TBC, but not usually. Leave it on as much as possible. EDIT turns off the NR, and that negates the reason you probably got the deck (ie, better quality output than normal VCR). Please do not confuse "detail" with noise, a common mistake made by newbies. Never use SHARP. R3 = OFF, edge correction that is sloppy. Interlaced is retained always. Nothing in the VCR deinterlaces. |
I believe the equivalent to video calibration on US decks is called B.E.S.T on the European ones (and D.S.P.C on Philips).
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Very unclear, it seems a mix of dynamic tracking, easy to verify with on and of ... and "calibration".
BEST seems first relative to dynamic tracking. According to manual : "The B.E.S.T. (Biconditional Equalised Signal Tracking) system checks the condition of the tape in use during recording and playback, and compensates to provide the highest-possible recording and playback pictures. The default setting for both recording and playback is “ON”. -- merged -- Manuals explanations differs from US ou UK manual. BEST is called "video stabilizer" in US, which (for me) is related to tracking. Denoise and TBC stay active if BEST is off. But, most important ; interlacing seems here, and not random ... Test confirmed with check in the digitized file. Interlacing is here all the way. So this leads to another question : Does anybody compared different deintrelace methods. The AVySynth QTGMC versus DaVinci Resolve, which i often use as a second denoise tool and finishing grade ? (but needs a pro Resolve for that ... |
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Depending on how the tape has been mastered, VHS is either interlaced or hard-telecined -- VHS always plays as interlaced. Interlaced and telecined video should remain that way unless you have a good reason for making it otherwise. There is no cleaner deinterlacer/denoiser than Avisynth's QTGMC. There is no better inverse telecine than Avisynth's TIVTC. Use Avisynth for denoising. Use DaVinci for color grading. For newer QTGMC and processing details see http://avisynth.nl/index.php/QTGMC. |
Well,a JVC HR-S9600 do NOT always play interlaced. Its "Best" system, associated with settings lead to reading with frame blending deintrelace, which i want to avoid. please don t go in pro advices ... it s my work since 1986 ... so i know all what you said. In Pro workflow, if old tapes are to be mixed with progressive rushes, they must be déinterlaced ... if its for computer consultation, they must be déinterlaced ... There is none absolute configuration nowadays. "What kind of "pro" video format and processing sources have been giving so much misleading information?" None. I just test and try to understand what the obscure consumer manuals mean with out of context "pro words". And reverse telecine is nor better or bad in any logiciel, it works or not. It s not supposed to modify the picture in any way. Not even touching original codec. So avisynth is bad for this,because of décode-re encode. Can de done without any
-- merged -- By the way; never tried MadVR. Is it possible to record it s output to a file ? -- merged -- Confirmed. On JVC, "Best" must be set to "off" (beware it resets at each tape change) and to "edit" mode (witch resets also at each tape). Time to try QTGMC. I use it from editing software, with a frame server |
There is some accuracy to what you say, but mixed with much nonsense. For instance, you say that inverse telecine doesn't modify the images. If so, then why would you re-encode? And if you are capturing to lossless media, as you should be, there is no "re-encoding". Capture and post-processing with lossless media involves no lossy encoding until final output.
You are decided, so more information wouldn't help. Proceed at will. |
Ok, to be clear , it would not modify the color space of the image. And in good tools, keep metadata, audio ... No need for avisynth for this case. And its very quick. Its implemented in any good editing software ...
I m not digitizing home video ... Industry archives. From VHS to very high end Raw and log |
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NLEs like Davinci use vastly inferior methods. Quote:
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I have no idea how you're coming to that conclusion, but it is false. VCRs do not contain deinterlacers, never have, never will. The output is always interlaced. BEST/calibration has nothing to do with interlacing, and are simply terrible methods to "help" tracking. I do try to leave BEST on with my HR-7965EK, but usually must turn it off as it actually causes tracking errors or bouncing/jitter. Quote:
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And you also stay as lossless intermediary until delivery/output, so no loss on re-encode occurs. Quote:
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I know Total Code. Strange travel from Main Concept to Rovi then coming back to Main Concept. So its just a rename of the old "MainConcept Reference"
By the way, the Main Concept Mpeg2 codec is everywhere, in Adobe or Episode (with i mainly use). Din't tried MAdVR, most used by "pimp my video geeks", so i ask advices. And off course i m not stuck in any software, even DaVinci Resolve. I look elsewhere if something is better, and it seems there are better deinterlace in Avisynth, so i will try. YES, my UK version JVC deinterlace ... and i don t want it. Is it a feature or a bug , i dont know, but i have eyes to see ... especially when you digitize ... easy to see the frame blending in the files. Only "copy" mode take this off, and this parameter is not related to tracking of course, but video signal processing. Being dogmatic is useless. Thats my reality. And the reality of people funding this job is "what are this strange tooth in the picture?' when they consult the database preview ... so yes i deintrelace. May be they will ask for 4k files with do NOT support interlacing, so yes i deinterlace... Yes it s a complex system, with multi referenced médias. So i need severals different versions, may be size and data rate. But i'm fed up , do i need to explain all the workflow to obtain advices on a simple question ? |
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And what is your simple question? |
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Q = What is this (saw)tooth? -- ie interlace A = Explain it to them. An exception, of course, is if it's for streaming viewing. Or situations like that. But you should never deinterlace just top avoid questions by those that don't yet understand video. Quote:
As sanlyn asks, what exactly is the question at this point? :question: |
Even if technically its not deinterlacing, frame blending occurs. Its not related to any particular tape, i have many.
I can reproduce the problem. Keep in mind its the UK, menu are a bit different from US. Electronic too. And it s for multi purpose use. As an archive , just for looking at on computer, but also as a source for future editing needs. So i need both, interlaced and deinterlaced. May be upscaled for convenience. Re digitized 5 tapes yesterday, Edit mode (called copie in UK FR menu) seems stable at keeping interlacing,. And it does not disable all denoise. May be chroma, but temporal is still active. Easy to see on blue or red titles. Anyway this scope will go back for a little servicing, S-Video out is not active. But i must show some digit results before ... |
VCRs do not blend frames. This would be done by your capture device and/or software. We do not know what kind of capture device you are using. Otherwise, if there is any frame blending it would be embedded in the source tape. VCRs cannot make changes in frame structure. They simply play the video structure as-is.
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NO, i know what i do and use. Tried 4 differents capture cards. Intensity Pro PCie, Same version in Thunderbolt, AJA Io HD, MXO Mini. Stop thinking because YOU never saw it it, it will never happen. NO frame blending is not in the footage,If it was i would never be able to get them back, and it"s the case. As i said , stop dogma and useless advices. Stop thinking i m "home user". Its insulting
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Hi Oliver. Can you attach a short sample from one of your captures? This would help users answer your question.
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There is no "home user" or "pro user" with VHS tapes. The format is a consumer analog, and whatever you are or are not is immaterial. The format has certain needs, and has nothing to do with you. Pros actually mostly deal with consumer formats, when not film or broadcast. Even in a studio, when not film, you're going to deal with many mixed formats. Quote:
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