01-03-2019, 03:04 PM
drzapp drzapp is offline
Premium Member
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 97
Thanked 10 Times in 8 Posts
It appears to me that the DV SE-500 could function as a TBC for video capture, but I don't know much about TBCs so I thought I would get some input from the pros. Anyone use it? Will it work better than an ES-15/DVK-100 combo?

I found This thread, is there any more info on the subject?
Reply With Quote
Someday, 12:01 PM
admin's Avatar
Ads / Sponsors
Join Date: ∞
Posts: 42
Thanks: ∞
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
01-03-2019, 09:05 PM
jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
Free Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 801
Thanked 215 Times in 173 Posts
By their nature a Titler or Switcher has to genlock at least two sources. Some have no genlock ability, like the SE-200 and outsource that to something like the DV TBC-3000.

I am not entirely familiar with the SE-500, but if it does genlock inside, it would have to perform a type of full frame TBC on each channel, making it originally very expensive.

I think the latest "trend" in repurposing "switchers" as TBCs has focused on the Datavideo Chroma Key boxes, they were slightly cheaper and not as well known for performing the TBC function. People re-selling them on auction sites have recently begun pointing out they "could" be used in VHS capture as a TBC by carefully selecting ports and "pinning their ears back" a bit.

You should keep in mind however that just because it "could" act like a TBC with [Perfect] broadcast FCC standardized signals.. that does not mean they will be very tolerant of shaky, jittery, fluttery low bandwidth 3 MHz VHS signals.. some will even "reset" if a field or frame can't be reconstructed and dump a chaotic signal into your workflow which might sound like a screech to your capture device.

The kind of TBC you really want is a patient, tolerant and "fakes a stable signal, when there is none" Saint of a TBC.

Around the year 2000 they started making these for use with cheap consumer camcorders because the camcorders didn't offload digital video yet.. so the input or capture device needed to provide the signal "preconditioning" and "stabilization" that TV station and Broadcast equipment never had to put up with.

The TBC-100, 3000 were made for this market and some light work with small broadcasters. Maybe higher end prosumer and small business professionals.

Outside of this the "discovery" that many of the cheap DVD recorders would perform this same full frame TBC function on Input and pass it through "live" to their Outputs even when not recording is probably the [best] bet if you can't get a TBC made for VHS signals. Not all are equally good at this.. many times the Vacuum Flourescent Display on the front of a DVD recorder would swamp the front "unshielded" Input connections such that there was too much interference.. audio might pickup a "whine".. video all sorts of interference. So good engineering quality, which went with good brand names really counted.

Today looking backwards names like the Panasonic ES10 are legendary for this feature.. you might not like a Panasonic for its MPEG encoding choices.. but used as a TBC substitute.. as a pass thru.. it could be useful.

Ratcheting down from [the best] signal from a pass-thru, a DVD recorder which cannot pass-thru can be used to capture and burn, or if the DVD burner is dead.. then you can capture to a DVD/HDD recorder to its hard drive at XP high resolution speed and [play that back] into your capture system.. be that another fully working DVD recorder, PC with a video capture card or usb dongle.. or Bluray recorder. The clean and stable signal produced by a precaptured high speed recording will at least be [better] than the raw unstable signal coming from an old VCR.

There are many reasons to pursue a DVD recorder (especially one with a HDD) even today when most things are pure digital. First they were designed with these horrific quality VHS signals in mind, they are armored to the 'teeth' with jungle circuits and weapons of mass contruction to calm and extract the best signal possible from a VHS tape. They soothe and smooth it back into shape and only then present it to their own MPEG encoders.. by-passing that the signal is of much better quality and ready for an external DiVX or H.264 encoder for PC or Bluray. But even if they have to reconstruct it in playback it will look much better to a next stage external H.265 capture device meant for catching HDTV or PS3 game play signals. A good second hand DVD recorder, even in crippled condition just gives you more options. -- but do a lot of pre-study before you buy, learn the going rates, and know what they are known for or that they are good for..

Last edited by jwillis84; 01-03-2019 at 09:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
The following users thank jwillis84 for this useful post: lordsmurf (01-04-2019)
01-04-2019, 04:41 AM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is online now
Site Staff | Video
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,660
Thanked 2,323 Times in 1,981 Posts
To expand on something jwillis mentions, or explain it another way...

An external framesync TBC designed for VHS/S-VHS/Video8/Hi8/Betamax sources is ideal but unfortunately not always easily accomplished these days. Not easy to find, and sometimes costly when they are located. I knew this day was coming several years ago, which is why I invested both time and funds into TBC alternatives.

Genlock isn't TBC, but they are related. Having genlock doesn't guarantee TBC, or vice versa.

The DVK-100 chroma keyer is a unit that required multiple sources be timed, and so does contain both TBC and genlock abilities, but it's also not made for VHS. It was for live cameras, BetacamSP, even digital sources. So it's not as tolerant to bad source signals, and is why it must be paired with an ES15 to pre-process signals cleaner. The ES15 isn't a true TBC either. However, in a pairing, it can be. In some ways, it's still not as good as "true" TBC (TBC-1000, AVT-8710, etc), but in other ways it's better. The ES15 gives strong line correction, something not found in the external framesync TBCs. The ES10/15 framesync (probably not even a framesync TBC, just framesync) is swiss cheese, due to Macrovision, but the DVK fills in those gaps.

As alluded to, TBC is a wide term, and can mean almost anything. Again, I sometimes ponder if my toaster has a TBC!

If somebody wants to send me an SE-500, I'll give it a thorough test, head-to-head with units like TBC-1000 and green AVT-8710, plus others. I have a battery of harsh test tapes that can stress even the best TBCs, test their mettle.

After testing thoroughly, I acquired a lot of units last spring (not from eBay, via my contacts), and started to resell them after my TBCs ran out. As usual, eBay sellers have seen this, and are now trying to sell theirs for even more than I did -- and theirs are in worse condition, no power supplies, not tested, etc. As long as they don't copy my descriptions from this site, I don't care, but swiping my writings verbatim pisses me off (and I have reported some to eBay in the past, had the listings removed). And a couple of people are reselling the units I sold them (aka my advice of "buy it, use it, resell it"). I'm down to my last DVK-100, and probably won't be getting any more.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
01-04-2019, 08:10 PM
jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
Free Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 801
Thanked 215 Times in 173 Posts
Thanks for being very tolerant of my previous post LordSmurf.

If the End of Days is truly upon us.

I wonder if someone with a level business head could considered hosting a mail order TBC "rental" service.

No one wants to spend upwards of $800 for a used TBC that might not even work and only plan to use it for a month or two. Then hassle with setting up an auction page and dealing with customers.

Last edited by jwillis84; 01-04-2019 at 08:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
The following users thank jwillis84 for this useful post: lordsmurf (01-30-2020)
04-29-2019, 04:49 PM
ofesad ofesad is offline
Free Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Cordoba, Argentina
Posts: 76
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
What a coincidence. I am still looking for a TBC, but since I live in Argentina, finding a standalone unit it's almost impossible. (In fact, theres a TBC-5000 MINT in box in the Argentinian Datavideo distribuitor).

I decided to try to find a Videonics MX1 or Sony or Panasonic mixer/switcher.
Just minutes ago someone offered me a Datavideo SE-500 and I ended up here searching and reading.

I'll take LS 50usd challenge and see if I can get one for that or less.

Also there's a lot of mixers for sale here. Someones are for a LOT of money but others are quite cheap, even high-end top of the line models. It all depends of the seller.

Will update soon on what mixers and prices are for sale so you can help me decide wich would be best.

Reply With Quote

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Using DataVideo SE-500 mixer as TBC? mattiasht Capture, Record, Transfer 10 03-27-2018 05:39 PM
FS: Datavideo TBC-1000 (BNC mod+) juhok Marketplace 1 07-21-2017 06:40 AM
Using Datavideo STC-100 as a TBC kbbbb Restore, Filter, Improve Quality 1 07-04-2015 07:35 AM
Panasonic TBC vs. JVC TBC vc. Datavideo TBC vaccastracca Restore, Filter, Improve Quality 12 08-28-2011 03:00 AM

Thread Tools

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:34 AM