VCR Buying Guide (S-VHS, D-VHS, Professional) for restoring video

[latreche34]

And preferably line TBC.

[LeandroSWR]

Ok, I've search locally left and right and found 2 players:
JVC HR-S4700EH for 70€
JVC HR-S6900EH for 250€
JVC HR-S7700EU for 172€

I'm kind of on a budget what's my best option here?

[wcndave]

Hi, I notice that most of the PAL JVC models with TBC that are available these days are not on the list.
This could be because all "the good ones" are gone, or because they were not considered?

Those I can find include
S7600
S7722
S8500
S8600
S8700
S9500

The 9500 is called out as "lacks", although not sure what it lacks.
Are any of the other models any good?

Thanks!

[wcndave]

Hi, I notice that most of the PAL JVC models with TBC that are available these days are not on the list.
This could be because all "the good ones" are gone, or because they were not considered?

Those I can find include
S7600
S7722
S8500
S8600
S8700
S9500

The 9500 is called out as "lacks", although not sure what it lacks.
Are any of the other models any good?

Thanks!

[rgr1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeandroSWR

Ok, I've search locally left and right and found 2 players:
JVC HR-S4700EH for 70€
JVC HR-S6900EH for 250€
JVC HR-S7700EU for 172€

I'm kind of on a budget what's my best option here?

I would choose S6900, but it probably doesn't have TBC.
Also, the price of $250 is a bit high -- I bought these for $100. Same as S7600.

[wcndave]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgr1

I would choose S6900, but it probably doesn't have TBC.
Also, the price of $250 is a bit high -- I bought these for $100. Same as S7600.

That's good for the other post, any thoughts on mine?

If the 9500 is no good, then the 8700 is the "highest" model, although 7722 may mean it's a more refined version of that generation?

Quote:

Originally Posted by wcndave

Those I can find include
S7600
S7722
S8500
S8600
S8700
S9500

[volksjager]

i can vouch for the HR-S7722 as being a top tier PAL deck with TBC. the rest ive never owned

[Bogilein]

Here is an overview of the JVC PAL S-VHS recorders with some information:
https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/1567-vcr-buying-guide-17.html#post84039

or a revised version but only in German language:
https://gleitz.info/forum/index.php?thread/48526-%C3%BCbersicht-%C3%BCber-alle-jvc-panasonic-svhs-videorecorder-deutschland/

You should also take a look at the JVC clones from Philips:
https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/1567-vcr-buying-guide-21.html#post98790

Devices with the Dynamic Drum should be bought with caution:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/393383-JVC-Dynamic-Drum-Ultimate-Fix


In your selection I would tend towards the HR-S 8600 if it should be a device with dynamic drum or the HR-S 7722 without dynamic drum.

[wcndave]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bogilein

In your selection I would tend towards the HR-S 8600 if it should be a device with dynamic drum or the HR-S 7722 without dynamic drum.

Thanks! I think from scanning that over - that DD seems to be a potential source of trouble and adds nothing. I definitely don't want to get into all that disabling malarkey on that page!

That's two votes for the 7722, so that's where I am going.
Thanks again all - there's so much information here, which is good in one way, and overwhelming in another!

[volksjager]

it has become increasing hard to find TBC equipped US market decks in good condition.
and when do prices are often very high.
so i thought i would compile a list of Japanese market TBC decks
these decks can be found for alot cheaper than US models and are often in excellent condition
i just bought one for $150 shipped that doesn't look like was ever used.
one caveat is Japanese decks have a different IRE setting, so you need to account for that.

Japanese home market S-VHS decks with TBC:

Panasonic NV-SB606
Panasonic NV-SB707
Panasonic NV-SB770
Panasonic NV-SB88W
Panasonic NV-SB800W
Panasonic NV-SB900
Panasonic NV-SV1
Panasonic NV-SV150B

Victor HR-VFG1
Victor HR-VT600
Victor HR-VX8
Victor HR-VX100
Victor HR-X7
Victor HM-DR10000
Victor HM-DH20000
Victor HM-DHX1
Victor HM-DHX2

[aramkolt]

Thing to keep in mind on the Japanese decks is that they are meant for 100V generally unless they list a voltage range. You could chance that they'll handle 120V which isn't too uncommon to spike up to 125-127V depending on your city or time of day. I'd recommend using them with a Variac/Autotransformer which is completely variable in terms of voltage output so you can get it down to the 100VAC expected by the device. I have an NV-SV1 for testing, but haven't really tested to see how it does compared to the "more recommended" machines.

There are also the Japanese W-VHS machines, but they are bigger and more complex, often requiring recapping, though some also say that they are the best for regular VHS playback. Could be that is the case because they have 5 pairs of heads (plus one flying erase, so 11 video drum heads in total), so it might just pull from whichever set of heads gives the best signal. It is said that there's also much less or no head switching noise when playing back first-generation tapes with W-VHS machines. They aren't usually significantly cheaper, it's a bit of a gamble at $450 usually only power tested, though I have seen them for around $250 (untested) on occasion.

[latreche34]

Looking at those W-VHS units inside is scary, they are jam packed with boards, The TBC board itself is the size of an iPad and filled with SMD caps. Unless needed for W-VHS recordings, I would stay away from those machines.

[volksjager]

my power here tests exactly 120v, i have used several Japanese VCR as well as other electronics with no issues.

i purposely left off the W-VHS decks as they are expensive, often broken and very difficult to repair

[dkiliev]

I have Panasonic HS-1000. Is there component video out in the SCART?

[aramkolt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkiliev

I have Panasonic HS-1000. Is there component video out in the SCART?

Looks like you can select whether you want S-Video vs Composite output on the SCART output, but I don't know why you'd use it when there's a dedicated S-Video out port. At least in the USA market, virtually no VCRs outside of some professional models or very late DVD combo units had Component output that works for VHS.

[mbassiouny]

Quote:

but I don't know why you'd use it when there's a dedicated S-Video out port.

For convenience, VCRs back then were not only for digitizing, a lot of TVs had SCART connectors, people had the cables around in their homes, people here still think about SCART connector by default when talking about VHS. + You get an extra S-video port, useful if you break the other one, or for situations such as the EU ES10 bug on S-video (4-pin) port.

Quote:

virtually no VCRs outside of some professional models or very late DVD combo units had Component output that works for VHS.

Because VHS signal doesn't benefit from component? There is no quality to gain when outputting to component cables. It was only later added in some devices for convenience, not because it gives better quality afaik.

[aramkolt]

Component is better than S-Videol, but VHS is recorded with just luma and chroma separated, so any component output is the result of a digital conversion somewhere. In machines that have TBCs where there's a digital stage already, I would use component output if it is available.

Component probably doesn't get much love around here because the "recommended" capture cards do not support component capture and neither do the recommended VHS machines or TBCs. I personally like capturing with an AJA KiPro which does support analog component capture and SDI/HDMI. For SDI captures, you need a different box to go from composite or S-Video to SDI, ideally in the form of a frame TBC that can output SDI and in an ideal scenario also merge audio into the SDI stream.

If using a broadcast TBC that has S-Video in and say component output as an option, I'll usually go with the component output from the TBC as that is a closer representation of the digital buffer than the S-Video output would be. This is the case with the For.A FA-310 as an example.

Now if you were capturing something like analog Betacam, which is stored as analog component on the tape, then you'd definitely want to capture in Component.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbassiouny

Because VHS signal doesn't benefit from component? There is no quality to gain when outputting to component cables. It was only later added in some devices for convenience, not because it gives better quality afaik.

Correct. And not only "not benefit", but the usually-awful processing is actually very degrading.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramkolt

Component is better than S-Videol, but VHS is recorded with just luma and chroma separated,

This is a not correct. Component is only "better" in a vacuum, absent any other variables/factors. (In the Laserdisc world, the same is true of s-video always being "better" than composite.)

Quote:

so any component output is the result of a digital conversion somewhere. In machines that have TBCs where there's a digital stage already, I would use component output if it is available.

Moot statement. No such beast exists.

Quote:

Component probably doesn't get much love around here because the "recommended" capture cards do not support component capture and neither do the recommended VHS machines or TBCs.

This is an oxymoron statement. Recommended gear is recommended for a reason. Non-recommended isn't for a reason. The fact that non-recommended has component is mostly immaterial to the recommendation. Other factors of that gear makes it undesired. But it's also a statement about how component is a bit of a cockamamie idea, as it forces processing to achieve. And the non-recommended nature of that gear is generally because the processing sucks (and in more than one way).

Quote:

I personally like capturing with an AJA KiPro which does support analog component capture and SDI/HDMI. For SDI captures, you need a different box to go from composite or S-Video to SDI, ideally in the form of a frame TBC that can output SDI and in an ideal scenario also merge audio into the SDI stream.
If using a broadcast TBC that has S-Video in and say component output as an option, I'll usually go with the component output from the TBC as that is a closer representation of the digital buffer than the S-Video output would be. This is the case with the For.A FA-310 as an example.

Those setups "work" for consumer analog formats, but in a non-ideal manner. It's not at all better, just different, often in an obnoxious unintuitive way. That gear was not created for home user formats, and it matters. Sort of like trying to put jet fuel in your Honda. It's "better" fuel, but not at all better for the scenario.

Quote:

Now if you were capturing something like analog Betacam, which is stored as analog component on the tape, then you'd definitely want to capture in Component.

Thus broadcast/SDI workflows, not consumer analog format workflows (VHS family, Sony 8mm family, even non-pro Betamax/cord).