I use the same settings, except for "Resync mode". Show below are the default settings. I've never changed them since my first VDub captures more than a dozen years ago.

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/atta...1&d=1407291512

I'll try this out, pretty sure its the base settings. I know that the different options exist for different hardware situations, but I haven't had much of any trouble so far. Going from VCR - AVT - capture device - Windows 8.1 - VirtualDub with Lagarith compression - USB 3.0 external.

I'll keep using my AIW and XP for capture until either or both evaporate into the ether. And if they do, I have copies of each.

I owned a Surface RT and hated the new Windows, but 8.1 is to 8 what 7 was to Vista. I'm not saying 8.1 is absolutely better, but I have been surprisingly happy with it. Boots faster than my Mac and I like the look. I never owned an AIW device but I used to use a Pinnacle 801e and was very happy with it. I am using the VC500 right now and its probably the most reliable cheap capture device for VirtualDub you can buy new.

Are the jitter and deviation markers at the bottom of VirtualDub of any significance? I'm sure they wouldn't be there if they weren't, but the MPC statistics read the same (approx. 1 ms.).

I never noticed. Do they mean anything, or is it just more info? I monitor the entire capture and watch what I'm doing. I capture in (roughly) 30 minute segments. If I hear bad audio thru the headphones, see bad frames, see the dropped frame count go above 0, etc., everything stops and we take a look around. As far as I can recall, it's only happened four times since I started capturing my VHS tapes, which was about 350 tape hours ago. Only 200 or so hours left.

I tried a few other capture cards, ATI knockoffs, USB, DV, etc. When I saw the results, I searched for and purchased two pristine copies of the original AIW's that I still use, plus another 9600XT that I found in-box that had never been opened for chrissake(!), and built a second PC to match. It would be extremely difficult for me to try working with anything else. If all this AIW stuff disappeared tomorrow, I'd just have to find something else to do.

My best knowledge points towards audio packet loss and sync error, but ironically enough, any error from a properly captured video via VirtualDub usually does better by this measure than many commercial DVDs/Blu-Rays I've ripped with MakeMKV.

I always found it very strange that the AIW cards are rated the best for these purposes, yet many reviews I find online talk about them like they are terrible. I have read site articles about them, but what is the real one up against other 422 options?

One other thing - maybe I am looking at the wrong cards. Any chance you can paste some eBay links to the USB model?

eBay: not up to date on eBay recently, having shot the budget on an AG-1980 purchase and rebuild. offhand, I haven't seen a fully-usable AIW on eBay in some time. I already went the course with other cards while they were new to the market, including USB. I thought the ATI 600 USB was a lot like the old AIW's but since it looked no better there was no sense discarding AIW's I already owned and no sense buying and keeping a USB device I wouldn't use.

I believe that installing ATI drivers was the big bugaboo about the AIW line, and gamers complained that PQ appeared to have processing priority over speed for gaming. As for installing, I did have a problem one time with a Win2K PC until I got into the release notes and found that I'd used a manual installation sequence that was the opposite of the one recommended. Another issue was the expectation that capturing directly to MPEG2 with MMC would somehow give "better" results than capturing to lossless (I never cared that much for MMC myself. Nice player in its day, too, but clunky to operate). But I never saw rough complaints fom users who read instructions or knew something about what they were doing.

I, too, have seen audio synch error numbers, but they don't look very big to me and they seem to represent an average. I wouldn't expect absolutely perfect a/v sync anyway on 100% of 275,000 frames. I wonder what the acceptable limits are, numerically. If you compare the size of the AGP or PCI card with that of shop equipment the size of a pile of suitcases, I guess you should expect a little less (and at considerably lower cost) from any graphics card. The connection dongle that came with the card was a source of contention -- took me a while to find a replacement for one with a bad s-video plug a couple years back. Those dongles never inspired that much confidence from me, they just never seemed very solid and I always felt I had to be really really careful. People also complained that the video output to their TV, whether CRT in the old days or LCD later, wasn't as spiffy as the output from their cable box or DVD player. That aspect of adapter performance has improved since (sort of), but I still think it's a case of unreasonable expectations from a relatively miniscule device designed primarily for computer monitors.

The old AIW's were not "professional" capture or display devices. True, they cost several times the price of generic PC graphics cards. But they were nowhere near the cost of shop-grade hardware or software and a bit less than the cyber-powered high speed gaming cards with their hilariously inaccurate color and wimpy blacks. The AIW's came with early OEM versions of Pinnacle Studio -- an OK little learning tool for us noobs, but in short order I discarded the junk freebies for more upscale freebies like VDub and Avisynth. Eventually stopped installing the MMC component, which was no competition for higher-end DVD recorders from Panny and Toshiba for direct-to-DVD recording. Besides, MMC's codecs liked to overwrite some legitimate Windows registry entries, and uninstalling didn't revive the old codec setups. Then there were problems caused by people who were trusting enough to install those ATI drivers from Windows Update. In that case, all it took was one Microsoft update and one consequent total XP re-install to keep me away forever from Microsoft's attempt at monopolizing the world's drivers for stuff they don't make.

I got started with AIW's by accident anyway. One of my first PC's was a Gateway special that came with AIW installed. On first play I could not escape the fact that the ATI's color and clarity simply blew away the nVidia's on my previous Dell PC's (both of which developed hardware or software glitches very early and brought a quick end to my career as a Dell customer). The TV reception was sorta OK but clever, screen repainting was sometimes a bit pokey, and then there were all these instructions on how to use and manage the thing. But it came with a "huge" 8MB of video RAM. Sometime later, my first VirtualDub capture with an AIW had me hooked. The AIW didn't do everything perfectly but it was always tough to beat for a few specific things, like capturing analog video.

Thank you very much sanlyn!

Just saw you don't get any dropped frames off of your 7500 capture card. Mine consistently have on average 2 dropped frames in the beginning. Is it my processor speed (P4 2.4 ghz)? Or maybe because I originally had MMC installed (saw you mentioning registry issues) and uninstalled? Should I reformat and reinstall everything minus MMC? I'm willing to start over if it means 0 dropped frames and 0 jitter.

Also, how do people get a copy of XP? I have a disc that I'm assuming would only work for the dell it came with so not sure if it would work on another machine if I have to start completely from scratch

Do you start capturing before or after you press play?

That happens occasionally, certainly rather rare with my 7500 an 9600XT. But I start capturing as soon as the tape rolls, which often has odities in the leaders and other junk. But if dropped frames continue during the main material, I figure something's wrong. That's when I stop, reboot, and check things out.

Badly stored and damaged tape will cause dropped frames. Poor machine alignment and other mechanics cause it as well, and a tbc can do only so much if the signal is garbage. If you consistently get dropped frames, something's wrong.

It happens whether I've hit capture first or hit play first. But never after the first few seconds. Jitter counter settles after 10 seconds or so

It sounds like your drive is probably just spinning up.

I usually start capture before play, but sometime not. It never seemed to make much difference. Usually I don't see any drops, period. Zero all the way. Now and then 1 drop, rarely 2 at the very start, but not after the first few seconds. On the couple of occasions I mentioned, on one session I got 2 drops during the first couple of minutes, then another drop a minute later, then another. So I stopped everything and rebooted. Problem solved. On another session I got a dropped frame maybe every 30 seconds or so, so I stopped, repacked the tape, and started over. Again, problem solved.

I did get one absolutely horrible tape from a nephew, football game that had been played to death. Required repacking several times, and needed the line tbc pass-thru and the AVT to calm things down. I still had a couple of drops late in the capture, and I recall seeing that jumbled, jittery picture from a really bad spot in the tape, some audio sputter, and 3 dropped frames at exactly the same point. Later, I repacked the tape and re-captured that short segment again, this time with 1 lost frame. Let's face it: some tapes are real crap. As it was, that one damaged spot on the tape had about a dozen bad frames within 2 seconds. On one of my VCRs, that section wouldn't track at all (I got about one and a half seconds of Panny's blue screen). I figured one lost frame was what I'd settle for, rather than risk sending a bad piece of tape thru a good machine again.

I don't think I ever noticed the jitter figure changing.

Does that mean a faulty hard drive that needs to be replaced? My 2nd 160GB PATA hdd regularly drops frames even after.

Could it be configuration or maybe uninstalling MMC (registry issue)?

MMC doesn't have to be installed for capturing with VirtualDub and an ATI card. I haven't installed MMC since 2003. Even with MMC installed, why would it be running when you're capturing with VirtualDub?

A bad drive could be an issue, but dropped frames doesn't necessarily mean the drive is bad. You could have a bad case of HDD constipation (i.e,. fragmentation).

A 160GB drive sounds a little small to me for working with lossless video nowadays, unless you use it only for captures. But dropped frames can also result from: faulty VCR tracking or alignment, hopelessly damaged tape, running too many other programs during capture, malware infections that slow your system as well as some brands of memory-hungry antivirus software, system timers such as screen savers, overheated CPU....shall we go on?

Thanks sanlyn. I didn't have it on when I had it. I only mentioned MMC cause you've hinted (post#128) that installing it messes with windows registry and uninstalling MMC wouldn't restore it back to the way it was. That's why I was wondering if reformatting and reinstalling everything (without MMC) would be a solution.

Before I start capturing I always run disk clean up followed by defrag. I go into task manager and force turn off whatever is the largest resource hog (antivirus). And I select virtual dub to have one step higher from normal priority (too chicken to force it higher cause not sure if it would make things less stable). I haven't connected the landline (doesn't have wifi) since Microsoft stopped supporting it. So anything I download is from my other computer. After running it through virus scan I transfer it over through a flash drive. The only things installed on the freshly installed XP 7 months ago are virtualdub, huffy, drivers, etc.

Funny thing is, I'll capture the same tape on the 160gb secondary drive like recommended and it'll drop frames like crazy but if I capture it with the OS drive, it'll drop 2 frames in the beginning with the jitter going a little erratic (on every type of tape) and it'll be fine after 15 seconds (whether I hit capture first or play first). I don't have anything running while capturing. Computer is also very responsive cause I keep it lean. I'm stumped. It's a Dell Dimension 2400

The XP machine is strictly for capturing (since I didn't have a larger PATA lying around). The second hdd is on a separate IDE cable. Is that a possible reason? I'll try anything at this point.

I dream of the day I can capture without dropped frames and jitter throughout. Especially on the secondary drive.

Can Lordsmurf, kpmedia, admin, or anybody from the site help bounce ideas around with this as well?

We've all been really busy this week. Projects and site upgrades, mostly. I've been monitoring this thread as the replies have been made for the past few days.

For the most part, I agree with sanlyn on most things.

- Media Player Classic is my favorite for viewing lossless AVI files. VLC only for watch-ready formats: MPEG, Xvid, H.264.

- I disagree about Huffyuv. I've used it across multiple machines for 10+ years now. The main issue with Lagarith is that cross-platform support sucks. It's Windows only, while Huffyuv is Windows, Mac and Linux. It also has better compression by about 5-10gb/hour.

- I don't know why sanlyn has a glitched video screen cap. After thorough troubleshooting, "video" error often turned out to be a dying drive. So beware! If you're getting dropped frames, glitched/corrupted video, etc, the drive may be bad! It's happens. Even good drives die in time. It's why watching the temps and various error codes is important. I use the commercial version of HDTune for this.

- JVC vs. Panasonic "loss of detail" really depends on the tape. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

- Always leave an external TBC in the chain, unless it's specifically causing harm. Why? Well, it prevents frame drop issues. That's the main purpose, even when the capture card reports no dropped frames. You've got to understand how capturing works. It can capture a corrupt frame just as easily as it can drop them. The TBC fixes this.

- FYI: Leave these test files. DO NOT DELETE THEM! This is a great thread for showing off TBC functionality. I plan to make this a sticky/indexed topic. (If ever you need more FTP space, ask. Don't delete "old" stuff.)

- AVT-8710 frame/field "freeze" is the mark of a bad unit. Good ones do not do this. (Well, usually not. I've seen it once myself, but the tape was completely fubar. I'd not seen it before, and I've not seen it since.)

- Most all video has off IRE levels. Realize it will never be perfect. Clean it as best as possible, and move on. I rarely use histograms, preferring my own two eyes for the final grading. Most videographers get their panties in a wad over this one. Yes, it's better form, but also realize I don't shoot video, and rarely convert good video. I get the videos that are completely screwed up, and these tapes can easily fool the graphs and charts.

- VirtualDub 1.10.x has issues. That's why the 1.9.x branch is still active. Our download also has a lot of pre-installed filters, which are useful for restoring video. The official one comes virgin, and you have to track down filters on your own -- some of which had gone missing in past years.

- Use full processing mode. Only use stream copy when you're just editing with scissors -- cutting thing off or out. Commercials, tape ends, etc. There's no reason to use fast recompress.

- ATI AIW cards were somewhat competing with Matrox 15 years ago. The capture chips were just as professional as the Matrox cards of the day. The only difference was Matrox came with Adobe Premiere, which is why that card was $1000 more. It also had timeline acceleration for MPEG, whereas ATI had capture acceleration with the Ligos-based hybrid hardware/software for MPEG. Quality was arguably the same, but ATI went for the high-end consumer market (recording, capture), while Matrox went for video editors. Since the 90s, I'd wanted a good video system, but what I wanted did not yet exist. In 2001, it finally existed -- an Intel P4 1.8ghz with an ATI AIW Radeon and Pioneer DVR-103 DVD burner -- and I bought one for several grand. Before that, I was mostly analog, though I had access to MPEG encoding from SGI MediaBase (look it up if you've never heard of it).

- Windows Disk Cleanup is useless. Sometimes is deletes good content! If you want to clean the drive, then format it was a non-quick format. Then run a test utility on it. It should be fine for several use at minimum.

- If you're getting dropped frames, then refer to the dropped frames guide. It may be the chipset, if it's a VIA.

Thanks for clarifying and filling in the gaps, lordsmurf.

Possibly I should refrain from getting too involved in discussions about dropped frames and audio sync. For one thing, the captures posted aren't consistent concerning dropped frames and frozen fields. It will happen in one capture, but not in others, then another capture does something else. Unless I've done something wrong somewhere or hit the wrong button, or just get a fouled-up tape, I haven't had those problems except for the few I mention -- and in those case it was usually because I got in a rush or didn't watch what I was doing. The only settings I've changed from VirtualDub capture defaults were frame rate (often not needed), capture size, and compressor.

Premiumcapture might have a point about different capture drivers. I've always used whatever ATI installed. The capture drivers must match the same version of ATI's Catalyst being used. The one time I had a problem with that was the one I mentioned (allowing Windows Update to install WDM drivers that screwed up everything in sight). I started using Catalyst 4.7 in 2004 for XP, haven't changed it since, and haven't had all these problems. How other capture cards from other makers handle all this is unknown to me: when I tried other cards, I removed ATI's capture setup and used the maker's software. When I stopped using those other cards, I uninstalled them and reinstalled ATI's setup.

The only time I had bad audio sync was when I started a capture using the F5 key (known as "compatibility mode"). The audio sync was so whacked I had to repeat the capture using F6 to start. I read where VirtualDub was set to erase the difference between F5 and F6, but that wasn't my experience.

As I've always used quality or high-end machines from Panasonic and JVC, I can't remark about other players. When a player gave me problems, I either had it repaired or stopped using it. Except for my rebuilt AG-1980, all of my VCR's are from 1996-1998. The only godawful JVC I ever used were two copies of the 9911 -- I think lordsmurf can comment that this specific JVC model was a serious downturn for JVC, and both units were returned. The best JVC I ever owned was a (model number not recalled) 1992 heavy-duty JVC that predated JVC's with tbc. Beautiful recording, nice audio, great playback. Like an idiot I sold it when I remarried and moved a few years later. No one to blame except myself for that. Today I play a couple of old tapes made on that machine, some of it at 6-hour speed; I have no complaints and am still impressed by what that 1992 machine could do. Have to kick myself every time I think about selling that JVC. The only other VCR I used was a 1991 SONY "HF" series that was rebuilt for a lotta money in 2006 and that I still own and use now and then.

So I'm not sure what's going on when I see a lot of these complaints.

Huffyuv: I have no problem transferring video from one AIW PC to another AIW PC. The problem occurs when I transfer those vids to a PC that doesn't have AIW drivers. The Lagarith videos play anywhere. However, the huff problem doesn't occur if I use Avisynth to open those huff files on other PC's. I have no answer for that except that I see that problem reported in other forums. Some users capture with the huffyuv furnished with ffdshow, which is always a problem on all of my PC's. I have to activate ffdshow's version to work with those files and always convert them to Lagarith.

There are so many variations that I don't have an answer for some of this except to report what has always worked for me.

IDE drives: Both of my capture machines use Western Digital PATA drives mounted on Promise PCI controller cards. I built those PC's with motherboards that can use IDE as well as SATA drives in case the old IDE technology fails and a PATA replacement isn't available. The OS is on a separate drive on a separate controller input and contains only the OS and application installs. I don't even use the "My documents" folder on those drives and I even have Avisynth and VirtualDub on a separate drive. VirtualDub capture uses a "Temp" folder that isn't on the OS drive. The OS on 4 machines is XP SvcPack 3, and one of those XP machines is an exact copy of another. The only difference between the two is an AIW 7500 on one and the AIW 9600XT on the other. Both use the same Catalyst 4.7 drivers. The other two XP machines don't have AIW cards, but use new ATI's. I built a Win7 machine that I use only for processing HD and has nothing to do with SD capture.

I don't know that this information is helpful, but there it is.

Thank you Lordsmurf!

I will promptly request for a refund on the AVT-8710 to return (hope it's not too late). This was the green/black version. If ghosting is happening just on the one tape and when it's only the AVT's TBC that's on, is it the AVT?
I'll switch all my virtualdub to the download version from this site.
I've already done a full format on the secondary drive before using it but still creating dropped frames like crazy. I'll refer to the guide and come back.

Thanks again!!

Probably a good idea with that AVT. I tried the TBC-1000 some time back, I thought image was too soft. Others might disagree there.

I bought my AVT-8710 in 2004 from B&H PhotoVideo. Said to be the most reliable source for that product, and two acquaintances got theirs from the same seller. I've bought lots of gear from B&H. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/browse...5/N/4294545851 . They have other tbc's (for a lotta money, too), but for some time now the only one I've seen from the broadcast shops is the black model. Haven't seen the green one around for a while, but it seems that the greenies being sold now are used, surplus, clearance, or otherwise suspect. Shops like B&H carry only new stuff and they keep tabs on any product that gives unusual return or defect problems. Over the years I picked up a product or two that didn't work (like the JVC mentioned) and an HP monitor that I just didn't like, but B&H took 'em back no questions asked. Also had a defective SLR lens maybe 20 or 25 years back which B&H exchanged on the spot.

Maybe others have a take on the green models. For tbc as well as anti-macrovision, I'm using a Panasonic DMR-ES15 as pass-thru most of the time, or just my AG-1980.

The new v1.10 VirtualDub ostensibly was fixed for Win7 and Win8, but I see complaints so I haven't used it.

Well, this being a green unit, I'm still not convinced 100% that it's bad.

Hi Lordsmurf,

Are there tests/captures I can do to be sure? Obviously I don't want to return it if it's not defective and would like to return if it is. It's not a situation where I can return if not defective. I'm willing to do almost anything to find out. You've mentioned ghosting is a sign of problem. Are there situations where it isn't? It's already a few weeks past so understandably I'd like to find out soon. Thank you very much!

Ghosting and the fields locking are two different things. I can't comment on the Green unit as I own the newer black version

Are you seeing this? Scroll down to #15. You can see the bear from a previous frame in the deinterlaced frame.
http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/2...AL-VHS-CApture

Hi Lordsmurf/admin,

Went through hdtune. No yellow lines under the health tab on either hdd and quick error scan returned all green. Somehow on the second 160gb drive the read benchmark test gave me a flat line of 30MB/s while the primary drive showed a min of 5.3MB/s (always dips severely at the very beginning, comes back up and followed by a slow decline) and max of 57MB/s (avg 47MB/s). 13.7ms access time. For some reason it won't let me do a write benchmark only read.

What's a VIA chip? I have the ATI VE 7500 PCI card.

I've tested a few captures after having gone through the dropped frames guide (and getting virtualdub 1.9.11+filter) but still showing the same results. I've closed further back ground software (minor programs off of antivirus), only ran virtualdub as per usual, primary hdd showing Ultra DMA Mode 5, secondary hdd showing Ultra DMA Mode 2, and I've shrunk the preview window 3 folds. I've also dropped down to 16bit resolution with 1024 x 768 to see if that would do anything. Both hard drives also have "Enable Write Cache" checked so I should technically be good to go.

But I'm still dropping a frame or two in the beginning with jitter figure bouncing up and down the first few seconds of every capture (immediate dropped frame as soon as I hit capture whether before or after play starts). Is there something I'm missing?

Is the below a frame/field freeze? This only happens when I turn the line TBC off and just have the AVT-8710 (green/black) on:
http://cdn4.digitalfaq.com/vhsdigita...fter_reset.avi

Hi premiumcapture,

It appears the above link mentioned is showing the same effect as the bears in your link?

Yes.

Info here I am just reading for the first time:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vcr-...-8710-doa.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRUcCNruRWo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzyiQXgj1cs

These are of the 1T-TBC, which uses more or less the same hardware as the AVT-8710. The AVT pulls incoming frames and retimes them to steady the video stream to avoid dropped frames, but when it can't pull data from the VCR it will lock the previous frame as you are seeing.

I don't know if there is a version that doesn't do this, as I have only owned one and mine will do this in similar situations. I really only used mine with commercial tapes because I make captures from multiple copies of the same title to cut together to get a better final product. I thought it was just mine before you brought this up, so this must be inherent to the 8710/1T-TBC unless there was an older model that handled video differently.

You have a few choices: (1) capture as is and deinterlace to discard the bad fields [not recommended], (2) get a different unit [not recommended, functionality not really guaranteed], (3) get a working tbc-1000 [better option], or (4) offload your tapes to a service (not recommended because you have commercial tapes).

I sent my family tapes to this site's service, mainly because I know the work they produce but also my dog got into them and several needed 'band-aids' that's I wasn't comfortable performing. I bought any tapes released on disc on DVD/Blu and tossed the old ones, any others without a release I am backing up.

Whoops, you've got this backwards; Lagarith compresses better than Huffyuv but uses more CPU. This isn't a problem in capture mode when your processor can handle it, but since it slows down later processing/encoding it's a pain.

Hold your horses! Fast Recompress is good any time you open an Avisynth script to compress it. It prevents colorspace conversions. Yes, if you're careful you can also do this in Full Processing Mode, but Fast Recompress guarantees it without having to double-check.

Thanks premiumcapture! the first link gave me plenty a lot of info that I was looking for. So it seems like the AVTs are being checked by the JVC menu screen.

Since I'm willing to try almost anything I went ahead and reformatted my primary hdd and put in a fresh install of winxp (somehow installed SP3 from the start so can't go back to SP2…) along with drivers and virtualdub. Followed the dropped frames guide. Jitter now active in the first 5 seconds of capture but still seeing 1 dropped frame every time as soon as I hit capture.

Serial number on my AVT-8710 (green/black): 200710170039. Is this around when the issues happened?

Hi lordsmurf/admin,

I've just taken captures of when my JVC HR-S7600U first started up, the menu screen, and another capture of the panny without the line tbc (with AVT). on the first start up, the "SP" wordings flicker (capture doesn't seem to show it but on playback it rapidly flickers on and off). Same thing with the entire menu screen. It's not the usual clean menu screen when the AVT is in the middle (everything flickers). When I exit the menu screen, the menu portion gets even more blurry (doesn't go away. Due to frame/field freeze?). Frame/field freeze seems to happen on the panny (took another capture without line tbc but with AVT). Funny thing is, with the line tbc off on the JVC, that portion of the video doesn't seem to freeze? So on the video playback on the panny it freezes and on the menu portion of the JVC it freezes. Is this AVT defective?

After turning on JVC (no line tbc). "SP" flickers on screen:
http://cdn4.digitalfaq.com/vhsdigita...lue_screen.avi

JVC menu (no line tbc). Entire menu flickers on screen:
http://cdn4.digitalfaq.com/vhsdigita...enu_Screen.avi

panny playback freezing (no line tbc) freeze frames/fields:
http://cdn4.digitalfaq.com/vhsdigita...c_with_avt.avi

Hi Lordsmurf/kpmedia/admin,

My AVT-8710:
Serial# 200710170039
IC6 - LTB101 v1.2 S0710
IC1 - NXP(?) SAA7114H
IC3 & IC4 - AVERLOGIC. -AL440B-24-PBF
IC5 - (some symbol not Philips) SAA7129H

Seems like it's different from njroadfan's. His has a Philips chip on the IC1 & IC5, and the IC6 is different. Is it possible some of the later green/black models also have an issue (i.e. all green/black models aren't necessarily all good)?

Is there a serial number range (i.e. Up to this serial number) that could tell us whether the AVT would give you issues or not? I believe something like that could be very helpful. Please let us know. Thank you.

NXP is Philips: http://www.nxp.com/news/press-releas...comes-nxp.html

Attachment 4147

Thanks msgohan. It looks like the logo for IC5 is Philips.

So that leaves the IC6 as being different. Not sure what's causing the AVT to fail (at least seems like that's the case since the playback is fine without AVT-8710 as per captures)?

Do you drop frames where it locks if you take it out of the chain? My AVT never drops frames according to VDub.

When I take the AVT out it doesn't freeze frames/fields. Whether I have it in or not it always drops the very first frame at the minimum (counter always starts with 1 dropped frame)

Right, but when I capture a tape that has damage it will often drop frames in the spots where its damaged, which is where the AVT freezes the video. When you take it out of the chain, does it drop frames in those particular spots?

I have the capture on the list of captures I've provided earlier. I've just tried capturing again but since without the line TBC and AVT it drops frames on several spots continuously, it's hard to determine whether it's dropping frames in those specific spots.

But even if it did, Lordsmurf mentioned frame/field freeze instead of color bar is a sign of a defect on the AVT-8710. I see freeze frame/field as per my captures on video footage as well as JVC's start up and menu screens.

Lordsmurf did mention he's not 100% convinced just because it was green/black but I'm hoping he or someone else can give me something to test or run through so I can be sure. As of right now the difference between my AVT and njroadfan's is the IC6 chip

My (AVT) IC6: LTB101 v1.2 S0710
Tuco's (CTB) IC6: LTB101 v2.1 S1101
njroadfan's (AVT) IC6: LTB-100 V2.0 A0411

I don't know what the above specifically means but it's looking like the later green/black models also have the same issue as the black models? I'm wondering if there's a range of serial numbers that would indicate whether it has the good chips or bad chips and am hoping for any feedback from lordsmurf/kpmedia/admin as it would seem to prove very helpful to all given the slippery nature of these devices that does have the best performance when working properly. If there's a link that shows this I'd love to check it out but I've done a few searches and came up empty.

I'm going to walk in the B&H store in manhattan and pick up 3 AVT units (unless they charge a restocking fee for refunds on defective items) and test out all three. Hopefully the new ones are fixed as it's been years...

I've brought home 2 new ones (only 2 in store and 3rd on it's way from Brooklyn shipped). So far, both new boxes act the same way as my green/black model. The JVC menu page and opening all behave the same as well. If green/black is not a bad unit then all three are good. Unfortunately I believe all three including my green/black are bad. However, one out of the three did not drop the first frame at the start. It was one of the two new ones that had on IC6 some Chinese characters instead of the usual LTB followed by v2.2 2218-0B22. The other new AVT had LTB101 v2.2 S1311. I think these two came in two different batches (the one with Chinese characters on IC6 being the later batch).

Which chip is causing the frame buffer fail to refresh? Is it IC3&4 or IC6? If IC3&4 then not all green/black models work as this one from 2007 clearly has the AVERLOGIC instead of the good KOL chips. The other chips seem to be different on mine compared to lordsmurf's approximately 2004 model as well. I'm guessing a return is in order?

Here's what I've been able to compile for ease of view from this site:
-Lordsmurf's AVT-8710
Serial#
*(Rom?) IC6 - LTB-100 V?.? A0412
(CPLD?) IC2 - unfamiliar symbol
?V3706?V???
?43A? 040?
? ?6 6?????
IC1 -
*IC3 & IC4 - KOL
KT88V422SA-2533
0411-BS
PRCS917000M1
IC5 -

-njroadfan's AVT-8710
Serial# 2004
*(Rom?) IC6 - LTB-100 V2.0 A0411
(CPLD?) IC2 -


8401
IC1 - Phillips SAA7114H
*IC3 & IC4 - KOL
IC5 - Phillips SAA7129H

-Tuco's CTB-100
Serial# 201102250012
IC6 - LTB101 v2.1 S1101
IC2 - Altera EPM3064A
TC44-10N
S HCC77
1019A
IC1 - Phillips SAA7114H
IC3 & IC4 - AVERLOGIC
AL440B-24-PBF
MSNR9
1016
IC5 - Phillips SAA7129AH

-Newkt's CTB-100
Serial# 201102250016
IC6 - LTB101 v2.1 S1101
IC2 - Altera
EPM3064A
TC44-10N
S HCC77
1019A
IC1 - Phillips SAA7114H
IC3 & IC4 - AVERLOGIC
AL440B-24-PBF
MSNR9
1016
IC5 - Phillips SAA7129AH

-Newby's AVT-8710
Serial# 2238406013982
IC6 - LTB101 V2.1 S1102
IC2 - Altera
EPM3064A
TC44-10N
S HCC77
1019A
IC1 - Phillips SAA7114H
IC3 & IC4 - AVERLOGIC
AL440B-24-PBF
MSNR9
1016
IC5 - Phillips SAA7129AH

-rappy's AVT-8710
Serial# 2238406012831
IC6 - LTB101 v2.1 S1011
IC2 -



IC1 - Phillips
IC3 & IC4 - AVERLOGIC
AL440B-24-PBF
MS943
0950
IC5 -

-My green/black AVT-8710:
Serial# 200710170039
IC6 - LTB101 v1.2 S0710
IC2 - Altera EPM3064A
TC44-10N
S 8C877
1301A
IC1 - NXP SAA7114H
IC3 & IC4 - AVERLOGIC
AL440B-24-PBF
IC5 - Philips SAA7129H
(Dropped a frame each time)

-B&H black/black AVT-8710:
Serial# 2 238406 026715
IC6 - (Chinese characters) v2.2 2218-0B22
IC2 - Altera EPM3064A
TC44-10N
S HCC77
1301A
IC1 - Trident SAA7114H
IC3 & IC4 - AVERLOGIC
AL440B-24-PBF
IC5 - Trident SAA7129AH
(Didn't drop first frame)

-B&H black/black AVT-8710:
Serial# 2 238406 024452
IC6 - LTB101 v2.2 S1311
IC2 - Altera EPM3064A
TC44-10N
S HCC77
1301A
IC1 - Trident SAA7114H
IC3 & IC4 - AVERLOGIC
AL440B-24-PBF
IC5 - Trident SAA7129AH
(Dropped a frame each time)

I don't think the units are bad, I think they are simply poorly designed. Out of this many units, there can't be that many bad ones. My AVT performs similarly, and while my biggest gripe is the cross-talk it introduces, my unit has never dropped a frame. I have a feeling your frame issues are not the unit but just your computer or hdd.

I doubt it's the hdd (i've ran hdtune as per lordsmurf and 0 errors). When I still had the ADVC110, I never encountered dropped frames using that (had done several captures with it). There's also the fact that one AVT (new one) did not drop frames on multiple tries as per my description above (but still froze a lot of frames/fields when line TBC was off):

"However, one out of the three did not drop the first frame at the start. It was one of the two new ones that had on IC6 some Chinese characters instead of the usual LTB followed by v2.2 2218-0B22. The other new AVT had LTB101 v2.2 S1311. I think these two came in two different batches (the one with Chinese characters on IC6 being the later batch)."

On the link you've provided, kpmedia recommended a user to have their AVT returned for the same reason. If the newer units behave the same it would seem they're defective?

That's not the most important issue:

Attachment 4148

You really need to watch the reallocation counts and the spin retries. Anything more than 0 is "Danger, Will Robinson!" :mad4:

If it's under 5, you need to watch it. If over 5, replace that drive ASAP! :unsure:

Also watch the temps. Any temp above the threshhold (when given) is not good! :mad4:

Here's an image of a bad drive:

Attachment 4149

You'll notice some drives mangle the temp gauges. Not much can be done here, except to manually feel the drive and see if it's excessively hot. (ie, does it burn if the hold your finger against it for two Mississippi's)

I believe the frame sync part of that TBC is bad. The ADVC-100 has some frame sync abilities, but it's not a TBC, hence some of the errors you'll encounter with it. There's a longer thread on TBC in the myth section, and I'll expand on that when I get a chance.

We surmised the AVer chips were at fault back in 2011.

How about putting that list into an Excel spreadsheet? I'll attach it to several threads. Would you mind? :idea:

Lordsmurf has a point about the chips used in some TBC's. Hopefully the list he proposes can be devised so that we can all have a look. I guess I'm lucky, as my AVT has presented few problems -- but, then, I haven't used it that much.

I'd echo premiumcapture in that 3 out of 3 bad units is unlikely. However, damaged and badly stored old tapes are always a problem anyway. So are old, rebuilt, used VCR's. Put them all together, and expect odd behavior. Basically what I've seen of your captures so far, other than inconsistent results, is the same thing I've seen on bad tapes + poorly aligned players over the years.

My wife raised the devil one time when she saw me trying 4 captures: one with a JVC 7600 and AVT, the same tape again with an AG1980 with/without AVT, the same tape a 3rd time with a SONY SLV-585HF and Panny ES-15 as pass-thru, and finally a 4th (and 100% successful) capture with a Panasonic PV-S4670 and Toshiba RD-XS34 recorder as pass-thru and the AVT at the tail end of the capture chain. What got the wife upset was that she had no idea I had managed to collect so many players and stuff. Her main problem, though, was that I'd spread that stuff all over the living room in one hectic day, trying variations until I got a good capture of everything on my nephew's rotten chewed-up noisy crappy football VHS recording that he ruined by using the repeat-play function on his cheap VCR and by keeping his tapes stored in the trunk of his car during two summers.

Been there. Not a wife, but a girlfriend.
Her: "Why do you need so many VCRs?"
Me: "Why do you need so many shoes? At least I have many tapes -- you only have two feet!"

We didn't last long together. :laugh: