Well, this being a green unit, I'm still not convinced 100% that it's bad.

Hi Lordsmurf,

Are there tests/captures I can do to be sure? Obviously I don't want to return it if it's not defective and would like to return if it is. It's not a situation where I can return if not defective. I'm willing to do almost anything to find out. You've mentioned ghosting is a sign of problem. Are there situations where it isn't? It's already a few weeks past so understandably I'd like to find out soon. Thank you very much!

Ghosting and the fields locking are two different things. I can't comment on the Green unit as I own the newer black version

Are you seeing this? Scroll down to #15. You can see the bear from a previous frame in the deinterlaced frame.
http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/2...AL-VHS-CApture

Hi Lordsmurf/admin,

Went through hdtune. No yellow lines under the health tab on either hdd and quick error scan returned all green. Somehow on the second 160gb drive the read benchmark test gave me a flat line of 30MB/s while the primary drive showed a min of 5.3MB/s (always dips severely at the very beginning, comes back up and followed by a slow decline) and max of 57MB/s (avg 47MB/s). 13.7ms access time. For some reason it won't let me do a write benchmark only read.

What's a VIA chip? I have the ATI VE 7500 PCI card.

I've tested a few captures after having gone through the dropped frames guide (and getting virtualdub 1.9.11+filter) but still showing the same results. I've closed further back ground software (minor programs off of antivirus), only ran virtualdub as per usual, primary hdd showing Ultra DMA Mode 5, secondary hdd showing Ultra DMA Mode 2, and I've shrunk the preview window 3 folds. I've also dropped down to 16bit resolution with 1024 x 768 to see if that would do anything. Both hard drives also have "Enable Write Cache" checked so I should technically be good to go.

But I'm still dropping a frame or two in the beginning with jitter figure bouncing up and down the first few seconds of every capture (immediate dropped frame as soon as I hit capture whether before or after play starts). Is there something I'm missing?

Is the below a frame/field freeze? This only happens when I turn the line TBC off and just have the AVT-8710 (green/black) on:
http://cdn4.digitalfaq.com/vhsdigita...fter_reset.avi

Hi premiumcapture,

It appears the above link mentioned is showing the same effect as the bears in your link?

Yes.

Info here I am just reading for the first time:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vcr-...-8710-doa.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRUcCNruRWo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzyiQXgj1cs

These are of the 1T-TBC, which uses more or less the same hardware as the AVT-8710. The AVT pulls incoming frames and retimes them to steady the video stream to avoid dropped frames, but when it can't pull data from the VCR it will lock the previous frame as you are seeing.

I don't know if there is a version that doesn't do this, as I have only owned one and mine will do this in similar situations. I really only used mine with commercial tapes because I make captures from multiple copies of the same title to cut together to get a better final product. I thought it was just mine before you brought this up, so this must be inherent to the 8710/1T-TBC unless there was an older model that handled video differently.

You have a few choices: (1) capture as is and deinterlace to discard the bad fields [not recommended], (2) get a different unit [not recommended, functionality not really guaranteed], (3) get a working tbc-1000 [better option], or (4) offload your tapes to a service (not recommended because you have commercial tapes).

I sent my family tapes to this site's service, mainly because I know the work they produce but also my dog got into them and several needed 'band-aids' that's I wasn't comfortable performing. I bought any tapes released on disc on DVD/Blu and tossed the old ones, any others without a release I am backing up.

Whoops, you've got this backwards; Lagarith compresses better than Huffyuv but uses more CPU. This isn't a problem in capture mode when your processor can handle it, but since it slows down later processing/encoding it's a pain.

Hold your horses! Fast Recompress is good any time you open an Avisynth script to compress it. It prevents colorspace conversions. Yes, if you're careful you can also do this in Full Processing Mode, but Fast Recompress guarantees it without having to double-check.

Thanks premiumcapture! the first link gave me plenty a lot of info that I was looking for. So it seems like the AVTs are being checked by the JVC menu screen.

Since I'm willing to try almost anything I went ahead and reformatted my primary hdd and put in a fresh install of winxp (somehow installed SP3 from the start so can't go back to SP2…) along with drivers and virtualdub. Followed the dropped frames guide. Jitter now active in the first 5 seconds of capture but still seeing 1 dropped frame every time as soon as I hit capture.

Serial number on my AVT-8710 (green/black): 200710170039. Is this around when the issues happened?

Hi lordsmurf/admin,

I've just taken captures of when my JVC HR-S7600U first started up, the menu screen, and another capture of the panny without the line tbc (with AVT). on the first start up, the "SP" wordings flicker (capture doesn't seem to show it but on playback it rapidly flickers on and off). Same thing with the entire menu screen. It's not the usual clean menu screen when the AVT is in the middle (everything flickers). When I exit the menu screen, the menu portion gets even more blurry (doesn't go away. Due to frame/field freeze?). Frame/field freeze seems to happen on the panny (took another capture without line tbc but with AVT). Funny thing is, with the line tbc off on the JVC, that portion of the video doesn't seem to freeze? So on the video playback on the panny it freezes and on the menu portion of the JVC it freezes. Is this AVT defective?

After turning on JVC (no line tbc). "SP" flickers on screen:
http://cdn4.digitalfaq.com/vhsdigita...lue_screen.avi

JVC menu (no line tbc). Entire menu flickers on screen:
http://cdn4.digitalfaq.com/vhsdigita...enu_Screen.avi

panny playback freezing (no line tbc) freeze frames/fields:
http://cdn4.digitalfaq.com/vhsdigita...c_with_avt.avi

Hi Lordsmurf/kpmedia/admin,

My AVT-8710:
Serial# 200710170039
IC6 - LTB101 v1.2 S0710
IC1 - NXP(?) SAA7114H
IC3 & IC4 - AVERLOGIC. -AL440B-24-PBF
IC5 - (some symbol not Philips) SAA7129H

Seems like it's different from njroadfan's. His has a Philips chip on the IC1 & IC5, and the IC6 is different. Is it possible some of the later green/black models also have an issue (i.e. all green/black models aren't necessarily all good)?

Is there a serial number range (i.e. Up to this serial number) that could tell us whether the AVT would give you issues or not? I believe something like that could be very helpful. Please let us know. Thank you.

NXP is Philips: http://www.nxp.com/news/press-releas...comes-nxp.html

Attachment 4147

Thanks msgohan. It looks like the logo for IC5 is Philips.

So that leaves the IC6 as being different. Not sure what's causing the AVT to fail (at least seems like that's the case since the playback is fine without AVT-8710 as per captures)?

Do you drop frames where it locks if you take it out of the chain? My AVT never drops frames according to VDub.

When I take the AVT out it doesn't freeze frames/fields. Whether I have it in or not it always drops the very first frame at the minimum (counter always starts with 1 dropped frame)

Right, but when I capture a tape that has damage it will often drop frames in the spots where its damaged, which is where the AVT freezes the video. When you take it out of the chain, does it drop frames in those particular spots?

I have the capture on the list of captures I've provided earlier. I've just tried capturing again but since without the line TBC and AVT it drops frames on several spots continuously, it's hard to determine whether it's dropping frames in those specific spots.

But even if it did, Lordsmurf mentioned frame/field freeze instead of color bar is a sign of a defect on the AVT-8710. I see freeze frame/field as per my captures on video footage as well as JVC's start up and menu screens.

Lordsmurf did mention he's not 100% convinced just because it was green/black but I'm hoping he or someone else can give me something to test or run through so I can be sure. As of right now the difference between my AVT and njroadfan's is the IC6 chip

My (AVT) IC6: LTB101 v1.2 S0710
Tuco's (CTB) IC6: LTB101 v2.1 S1101
njroadfan's (AVT) IC6: LTB-100 V2.0 A0411

I don't know what the above specifically means but it's looking like the later green/black models also have the same issue as the black models? I'm wondering if there's a range of serial numbers that would indicate whether it has the good chips or bad chips and am hoping for any feedback from lordsmurf/kpmedia/admin as it would seem to prove very helpful to all given the slippery nature of these devices that does have the best performance when working properly. If there's a link that shows this I'd love to check it out but I've done a few searches and came up empty.

I'm going to walk in the B&H store in manhattan and pick up 3 AVT units (unless they charge a restocking fee for refunds on defective items) and test out all three. Hopefully the new ones are fixed as it's been years...

I've brought home 2 new ones (only 2 in store and 3rd on it's way from Brooklyn shipped). So far, both new boxes act the same way as my green/black model. The JVC menu page and opening all behave the same as well. If green/black is not a bad unit then all three are good. Unfortunately I believe all three including my green/black are bad. However, one out of the three did not drop the first frame at the start. It was one of the two new ones that had on IC6 some Chinese characters instead of the usual LTB followed by v2.2 2218-0B22. The other new AVT had LTB101 v2.2 S1311. I think these two came in two different batches (the one with Chinese characters on IC6 being the later batch).

Which chip is causing the frame buffer fail to refresh? Is it IC3&4 or IC6? If IC3&4 then not all green/black models work as this one from 2007 clearly has the AVERLOGIC instead of the good KOL chips. The other chips seem to be different on mine compared to lordsmurf's approximately 2004 model as well. I'm guessing a return is in order?

Here's what I've been able to compile for ease of view from this site:
-Lordsmurf's AVT-8710
Serial#
*(Rom?) IC6 - LTB-100 V?.? A0412
(CPLD?) IC2 - unfamiliar symbol
?V3706?V???
?43A? 040?
? ?6 6?????
IC1 -
*IC3 & IC4 - KOL
KT88V422SA-2533
0411-BS
PRCS917000M1
IC5 -

-njroadfan's AVT-8710
Serial# 2004
*(Rom?) IC6 - LTB-100 V2.0 A0411
(CPLD?) IC2 -


8401
IC1 - Phillips SAA7114H
*IC3 & IC4 - KOL
IC5 - Phillips SAA7129H

-Tuco's CTB-100
Serial# 201102250012
IC6 - LTB101 v2.1 S1101
IC2 - Altera EPM3064A
TC44-10N
S HCC77
1019A
IC1 - Phillips SAA7114H
IC3 & IC4 - AVERLOGIC
AL440B-24-PBF
MSNR9
1016
IC5 - Phillips SAA7129AH

-Newkt's CTB-100
Serial# 201102250016
IC6 - LTB101 v2.1 S1101
IC2 - Altera
EPM3064A
TC44-10N
S HCC77
1019A
IC1 - Phillips SAA7114H
IC3 & IC4 - AVERLOGIC
AL440B-24-PBF
MSNR9
1016
IC5 - Phillips SAA7129AH

-Newby's AVT-8710
Serial# 2238406013982
IC6 - LTB101 V2.1 S1102
IC2 - Altera
EPM3064A
TC44-10N
S HCC77
1019A
IC1 - Phillips SAA7114H
IC3 & IC4 - AVERLOGIC
AL440B-24-PBF
MSNR9
1016
IC5 - Phillips SAA7129AH

-rappy's AVT-8710
Serial# 2238406012831
IC6 - LTB101 v2.1 S1011
IC2 -



IC1 - Phillips
IC3 & IC4 - AVERLOGIC
AL440B-24-PBF
MS943
0950
IC5 -

-My green/black AVT-8710:
Serial# 200710170039
IC6 - LTB101 v1.2 S0710
IC2 - Altera EPM3064A
TC44-10N
S 8C877
1301A
IC1 - NXP SAA7114H
IC3 & IC4 - AVERLOGIC
AL440B-24-PBF
IC5 - Philips SAA7129H
(Dropped a frame each time)

-B&H black/black AVT-8710:
Serial# 2 238406 026715
IC6 - (Chinese characters) v2.2 2218-0B22
IC2 - Altera EPM3064A
TC44-10N
S HCC77
1301A
IC1 - Trident SAA7114H
IC3 & IC4 - AVERLOGIC
AL440B-24-PBF
IC5 - Trident SAA7129AH
(Didn't drop first frame)

-B&H black/black AVT-8710:
Serial# 2 238406 024452
IC6 - LTB101 v2.2 S1311
IC2 - Altera EPM3064A
TC44-10N
S HCC77
1301A
IC1 - Trident SAA7114H
IC3 & IC4 - AVERLOGIC
AL440B-24-PBF
IC5 - Trident SAA7129AH
(Dropped a frame each time)

I don't think the units are bad, I think they are simply poorly designed. Out of this many units, there can't be that many bad ones. My AVT performs similarly, and while my biggest gripe is the cross-talk it introduces, my unit has never dropped a frame. I have a feeling your frame issues are not the unit but just your computer or hdd.

I doubt it's the hdd (i've ran hdtune as per lordsmurf and 0 errors). When I still had the ADVC110, I never encountered dropped frames using that (had done several captures with it). There's also the fact that one AVT (new one) did not drop frames on multiple tries as per my description above (but still froze a lot of frames/fields when line TBC was off):

"However, one out of the three did not drop the first frame at the start. It was one of the two new ones that had on IC6 some Chinese characters instead of the usual LTB followed by v2.2 2218-0B22. The other new AVT had LTB101 v2.2 S1311. I think these two came in two different batches (the one with Chinese characters on IC6 being the later batch)."

On the link you've provided, kpmedia recommended a user to have their AVT returned for the same reason. If the newer units behave the same it would seem they're defective?

That's not the most important issue:

Attachment 4148

You really need to watch the reallocation counts and the spin retries. Anything more than 0 is "Danger, Will Robinson!" :mad4:

If it's under 5, you need to watch it. If over 5, replace that drive ASAP! :unsure:

Also watch the temps. Any temp above the threshhold (when given) is not good! :mad4:

Here's an image of a bad drive:

Attachment 4149

You'll notice some drives mangle the temp gauges. Not much can be done here, except to manually feel the drive and see if it's excessively hot. (ie, does it burn if the hold your finger against it for two Mississippi's)

I believe the frame sync part of that TBC is bad. The ADVC-100 has some frame sync abilities, but it's not a TBC, hence some of the errors you'll encounter with it. There's a longer thread on TBC in the myth section, and I'll expand on that when I get a chance.

We surmised the AVer chips were at fault back in 2011.

How about putting that list into an Excel spreadsheet? I'll attach it to several threads. Would you mind? :idea:

Lordsmurf has a point about the chips used in some TBC's. Hopefully the list he proposes can be devised so that we can all have a look. I guess I'm lucky, as my AVT has presented few problems -- but, then, I haven't used it that much.

I'd echo premiumcapture in that 3 out of 3 bad units is unlikely. However, damaged and badly stored old tapes are always a problem anyway. So are old, rebuilt, used VCR's. Put them all together, and expect odd behavior. Basically what I've seen of your captures so far, other than inconsistent results, is the same thing I've seen on bad tapes + poorly aligned players over the years.

My wife raised the devil one time when she saw me trying 4 captures: one with a JVC 7600 and AVT, the same tape again with an AG1980 with/without AVT, the same tape a 3rd time with a SONY SLV-585HF and Panny ES-15 as pass-thru, and finally a 4th (and 100% successful) capture with a Panasonic PV-S4670 and Toshiba RD-XS34 recorder as pass-thru and the AVT at the tail end of the capture chain. What got the wife upset was that she had no idea I had managed to collect so many players and stuff. Her main problem, though, was that I'd spread that stuff all over the living room in one hectic day, trying variations until I got a good capture of everything on my nephew's rotten chewed-up noisy crappy football VHS recording that he ruined by using the repeat-play function on his cheap VCR and by keeping his tapes stored in the trunk of his car during two summers.

Been there. Not a wife, but a girlfriend.
Her: "Why do you need so many VCRs?"
Me: "Why do you need so many shoes? At least I have many tapes -- you only have two feet!"

We didn't last long together. :laugh: