Time to revise file prediction!
I'm getting inconsistent results lately. There are too many new factors involved. AviSynth 2.52, new motion adaptive script, etc. I think it's time for a revision :!:
-kwag |
I didn't try it since avs252 but the method used by DVD2SVCD always gave me good result even in PAL (where Tok is very bad :-().
The idea of DVD2SVCD is to always make a sample of 100 seconds, taking 1 second every 1/100th of the movie length (in minute) (different from sampler.dll that for instance take only 80 samples when the film is 1h20min). |
I tried even manual prediction, and the final size is off :!:
I've done it twice with "K-Pax", using the optimal 2.52 script. The basic rule on KVCD prediction is to take 1 second for every minute of the movie. It has been like this, even before DVD2SVCD did it that way :!: This is now failing, and is not as accurate as it was when static filters were used, and AviSynth 2.0x. Precious accuracy was ~2% ALWAYS. Not anymore :cry: I'm now off by +5% in this case :!: So I'm revising this stuff now :twisted: -kwag |
cool :D
|
Kwag wrote:
"even before DVD2SVCD did it that way" yes, i remember and you post this in doom9! http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...highlight=kwag :wink: |
Geee! thanks jorel :)
I forgot about that post 8) -kwag |
kwag, I totally agree. I'm getting completely incosistent results too. I'm currently stuck on this one movie that is consistently ending up at 830mb (m1v) with ToK and manual prediction too8O
|
Hi, I mentioned in a different thread that the following steps work well for me.
Start TOK and set factor to 1.00 Let TOK encode the Full and Small predict size. Cancel prediction. Find out the ratio of Full to Small size and divide this by 10.5 Then set the factor to the result. Restart TOK and let it run. Regards, Tenra |
hi Tenra,
can I do this manually like this (psuedocode): clip(a) = SampleClip() 'full sample clip(b) = SampleClip(10) '10% of full sample factor = (size clip(a) / size clip(b) ) / 10.5 Then use this factor in the Predict function? Thanks, ren |
Hi Ren,
Quote:
Quote:
Regards, Tenra |
Script updated. Hopefully, the root of the problem was nailed :!:
Read the change log here: http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3483 -kwag |
And take the hopefully with a grain of salt :!:
Although I definitely saw the hard shift with -2 on some scenes, which I don't see at all with -1, I just did a small 2 minute clip with -1 and another with -2, and the file size was the same :x I guess I'll have to encode a longer clip to see if the effect does reduce the file size. If not, back to the drawing board :!: Anyway, the -1 does fix the shift on the frame after scene change. -kwag |
@ Kwag..
W/ regards to K-PAX... You said that in your past "predictions" it was on target ?? But, today, that same Movie is NO longer on target ?? * using the same method you used when it did work ?? -vhelp |
Hi vhelp,
The prediction is again chaotic. The new AviSynth 2.52, the MA script, too many factors. I'm trying to zero in on the problems :!: I did "K-Pax", and the file size was ~5% over the wanted size :x Not that it would make visual difference after lowering the CQ a tad, but the problem is we're going "above" final wanted file size. Even with manual prediction, it's not working correctly either :!: I assume this will be the case with any program currently doing prediction and using the MA script. I bet even DVD2SVCD will be thrown off calculations with the MA script :!: So if anyone want's correct prediction, go back to AviSynth 2.08, and use the old script. I won't go back to 2.08 :!:, NO WAY :!: I'll just keep working on this until I (or someone!) find a consistent method to correct the chaos :!: -kwag |
Hi Kwag..
I can save you all the trouble. I've ben toying as well as pulling my hair out on (my own set of..) issues too. And, I believe I have the answer :!: Hint, hint... And, don't get mad, but does "color washout" mean anything to you ?? ?? Yes, the color IS off. And, THAT'S why the "predicton" is OFF !! Ok, FIRST, because there are so many Filters that we use in AVIsynth for the MA script, (and things change fast w/ filter used or not) the issue is they are ALL NOT of equal color space. There are too many. Ok, let met explain.. Some filters require YUV, others YUV2 and others YV12 and so on.. .. .. That alone is enough to throw off our (YOUR) previous DVD movie that USED to be on target in past testings. So, the only way we can have a successful "prediction", is to have those that created ALL the necessary AVIsynth Filters "separately" to: * YV12 * YUV * YUY2 * RGB * etc. Then, we have no trouble w/ any, becuase say, out source is from a capture card, then obviously, we could use ALL the filters that ONLY pertain to YUY2 color space. If our source is DVD rip, then obviously, we could use ALL the filters that ONLY pertain to YV12 color space. THEN, and only THEN, will we have accurate "predictions" for the same source, every time.. .. mix your source's color space (ie, YUY2 w/ YV12) and your "prediction" is off) It's a matter of fine-tuning otherwise, but I doubt that fine-tuning will help w/ mixed color space :!: ..too un-"predictable" What are you comments on this :?: Now.. I've ben toying w/ the idea of using an OLDER mpeg2dec.dll w/ the help of this script: Code:
## v2.52 DLL Filters go here ## I get two "color space" quality differece when I REM ## it out vs. not REM ## it out. ..try it out for yourself. . . OR, . . if you your Code:
#asharp(2, 4) pink, and other side w/ normal video. So, it looks like asharp is causing this issue. Must be another color space 8O More to say, that I've noticed in the past week on issues w/ latest AVIsynth v2.52 but i don't want to get into any debates.. but it looks like too many cooks has spoiled this broath for now. But, for the time being, we can try and figure out the bugs and work around them :idea: With the help of ALL. :) Be good :) -vhelp |
I dont think they even had to go back to Asynth 2.08 to me they can keep using 2.52 n just check off the Adaptive script line. This is what trowing
off prediction because tok has now way to now how long is it going to blur on high motion scenes i keep being of below the target 20~40 Mb even with the old prediction method; BTW not only prediction is off but the time too encode is less than it says, im getting 5 hrs ecodes in 4-1/2, so there you go i guess Tmpeg encode faster in high motion scenes cause of less detail that doen't have to encode, does that make any sence :?: it kind of does to me. Anyway, im not giving up on the adaptive script, n i dont think anybody should, i think is to early for that because every problem has an anwer. :) |
Is 15MB short on a 2CD encode considered accurate? Or is this off? I'm thinking about trying again, but I don't know if 15MB will give me that much more quality to make the re-encode worth it.
|
Oh Kwag..
"prediction" vs. "color space"... Something lese came to mind on "prediction" vs. "color space" In your prevous v2.08 "predictons" w/ Movie "K-PAX", you got a certain rate.. well, have a look below, in hopes to better explain what is truley going on. Have a look at this "analigy" below: A) --> YUY2 <-- * K-Pax * prediction: 7.8 B) --> YV12 <-- * K-Pax * prediction: 9.2 C) --> MIXED YUY2 and YV12 etc Filters <-- * K-Pax * prediction: 11.6 Note 1.. If you ran "prediction" separately on A) and B) you would get two different predicitons. Note 2.. If you were to do same w/ C) don't expect to get the same predict matching A) or even B) Note 3.. Now, if you mix different Filters that have different "color space" requirements ie, C) and say, you got asharp() YUY2 last month, and then a new one (revised) comes along but this time in YV12, you will get an even different predict rate because you stired the pot some.. ie, C) hehe.. @ ovg64.. Note 4 w/ respect to ovg64.. Even though that may be true, you'll still have prediction problems BECAUSE OF THE mixing of color space filters. You have to have consistant color space filters in a project ! Either you have YV12 throughout your project, or YUY2. It would probably be easier to have those associated w/ the creation of their filters to make separate ones.. At very least, have: * YUY2, and * YV12 ..filters . . then to figure out how to work around it, but on the other hand, it's harder to talk to the majority of those peoples, to get them to revise their Filters. Member prev. how it was hard to get people to change for AVIsynth 2.5x ?? Anyways.. . . Then, later, during the process, if user needs to have a final color space conversion, then can use the convertToYV12 etc, at the end of their scripts, and proceed to encode w/ happyness :) I firmly believe that for serious quality freaks (like myself) that want the best in their process, should only be using one color space. Mixing is just an excuse ta get the job done. That should only be if "quality" is not your goal. I hate this band-aid method of mixing if it taints the final quality. It's VERY crude, and causes us geeks countless waist of debuggin even the simplist of encodes when all it really is is just the color space - - that simple. It's always the outsider (me) who has to wake others up to the reality of chaos, and when enough is awake, and stirs up the pot, THATs when things get done! AAARRRR !! Last note.. I'm starved !! Oh, right.. as I was saying.. the above predict numbers I made up. Don't take them literally. -vhelp |
@Vhelp,
If your theory is true than all you would need to do is make a script w say YV12 filters only run prediction and Encode The final file size should now be on target like in 2.08, that would pretty much prove your theory, i think. |
@ ovg64..
Answer.. NO. and, I'll explain in a moment. -vhelp |
Site design, images and content © 2002-2024 The Digital FAQ, www.digitalFAQ.com
Forum Software by vBulletin · Copyright © 2024 Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.