MNCSamplePreview - A new tool.
 

Updated 12/JUN/2004: Added "preview only one chunk" (from a desired beginning time, during a given time.)
Updated 08/JUN/2004: Efficiency improved.
Added chunk time selection.
Added reset and new sample encode.
Updated 07/JUN/2004: Fixed bad order of chunks when rebuilding m2v final stream.


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Hi: Do you ever ask yourself for a Sample Preview for Mencoder. Here it is:

MNCSamplePreview.bat


Explanation:

MNCSamplePreview.bat works taking samples (usually as many as movie time in minutes) of 1 second each one. In MNCSamplePreview.bat, you can select number of samples, but not time of samples (maybe in a future, it is not hard to do). The final stream only can be played for MPlayer. Other players don't play it fine. Maybe one of you, friends, can tell me how can make it play with other software. (maybe it will fix with an option). It was tested for a preview of movie with settings in temp.conf, but not for prediction purposes. MNCSamplePreview.bat will play the final stream.

Downloads:

Download Latest CVS Snapshot Mencoder Builds.
Download MencodeMe - GUI for Mencoder.exe plus Mencoder.exe, MPlayer.exe and libraries.
Download MNCSamplePreview.bat only if you want to see the source and improve it.


Tool Install:

1 - You need Mencoder.exe.
2 - You need Mplayer.exe.
3 - You must to have all libraries (CygWin1.dll) needed for those programs.
4 - You can use MencodeMe or PackShot for making temp.conf file. Also you can make that file from scratch.
5 - It is better that folder with movies would be one folder into Mencoder.exe folder, but you can keep your movie where you want.
6 - All programs, Mencoder.exe, MPlayer.exe, Libraries, MNCSamplePreview.bat and Counter.txt must be in same folder. Counter.txt is a file needed to get 3 digits numbers that are actting as counter.
7 - Spaces into folder or movie names are prohibited.

Tool Usage:

1- Generate your temp.conf file in working folder. Wth MencodeMe, PackShot or handly. Its name must be temp.conf. Encode.bat file is not necessary, MNCSamplePreview.bat will generate a standard (like MencodeMe), 2 pass encode.bat.
2 - Run MNCSamplePreview.bat.
3 - Input movie folder path (path without spaces). If your movie is in a folder into the working directory, it is enough write the folder name. Supose you have a Samples folder inside MencodeMe working folder, in this window you can write Samples. If your movie is in another folder you must to write full path to it. (i.e. C:\Movies\MyMovie.vob)
4 - Input movie name with extension (Movie.avi, Movie.vob, name without spaces).
5 - Input number of samples (usually movie time in minutes).
6 - Input vbitrate value (avg bitrate). MencodeMe or Calcumatic can give you it.
7 - Select between encode sample, single preview, looping preview and exit.

Hints:

MNCSamplePreview.bat work in a command prompt window. You can change aspect of that window just left clicking in upper left corner of cmd window. In options tab mark "quick edition modality" and "Insertion modality". With the first one, you can paste any text in cmd window just right clicking. It is very usefull when you want to paste a full path or a movie name. Second one will permit you write some text without overwrite previous text. In others tabs you can play with fonts, window place, background color, text color etc.

Thats all folks.


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:!: Attention :!:

Hi Pro,
There's got to be some problem here.
I tried to download the MNCSampler.bat and my Anti-virus tool advised me that I was downloading a program with a Trojan Horse named Digarix.B.
I'm sure there's some problem with either your provider or your PC.
Can you check that please?
Cheers

:!: Attention :!:

I don't know what to check. Sampler.bat is justa a batch file that I do.
For sure it is not a virus.
Sampler.exe is batch file compiled. I am' strongly antivirus protected.
I do a full scan every week (last yesterday). Not virus reported.
I don´t understand.
What file reported virus. Bat or exe.
Don't worry, I am posting batch file just now.


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Hi Pro,
I was starting to download the whole package when it happened.
But I started with the batch file MNCSampler.bat.
I tried downloading it twice and it always reported me the presence of a Trojan.
As this happened with this file I felt that for safety I wouldn't try to download the MNCSampler.exe.
Sorry for this buddy but it's just that lately I have seem many Trojans opening the door for hackers attacking.
Most of my customers have had such problems you know...
What about submiting the batch file again to your webspace and I'll try to download it again too?
Cheers

EDIT:
Forget what I just said.
I just downloaded the sampler.bat and now it doesn't report any Trojans.
But I cannot say the same about the *.exe one.
I tried the sampler.exe and now it's reporting the same Trojan that it was reporting on the batch file.

Don't download the exe file for now. I'll check it.


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I'm waiting :lol:

When you download first time, you was downloading sampler.exe, even you read sampler.bat.
It is fixed now. Later I will check what it is happend.
Bat file is sure, and code too, of course.


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And I am waiting for your opinion now.
:D


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Thanks for this Sampler Pro I like the idea of this.

Great work im going to do some tests also. :)

EDIT: Scanned the bat file with AVG Free version and it reported no Trojan or Virus and my AV is fully updated. Just thought id let you know Pro. :)

You like the idea of a sampler to use with an encoder that don't have any quality based encoding mode.

In other words : with an encoder that CAN'T GIVE any good result in 1pass ?

I think you all miss something in the mencoder theory gentlemen...

And in that "sampler" a 2pass is used? Do I see that right Prodator?

Do some people still got inacurate avg bitrate results in ther encodings when using 2pass? I never had, ... so I maybe missed something.

On the other hand I underline the statement of Phil, as it has been proofed that 1pass does result in finally more "avg rate matching" results then in constant quailty. Thats how mencoder works with our actual settings.

I remember when Phil encoded one stream just using 1pass where the beginning till the middle resulted excellent and the end finally ended up alful.

I also did some tests on 1pass/2pass and 2pass does allocate the bitrate much more precisely therefore 1pass in mencoder when using our actual parameters is not quality based like CQ in Tmpgenc.

I had that in the beguining but not in my last attempts but I can't say why.

BTW this unacurracy if mainly due to underflow problems (each time you have one, the avg bitrate that is reported on the line just bump to a radndom value !).

As these underflows arrive at different moment according to bitrate, I guess this make any prediction impossible : you can have a encode with bitrate=1500 and no underflow that will be too big and the same a 1600 that will be too low because of lots of underflows.

Really Pro (and otehrs) you should consider to stop doing such long post and ask a little for some advices. I don't want to be rude but it's clear that a lot of people here do not handle completly the problems we are dealing with but this don't prevent them to do GUIDES :!:

And that is not a mencoder only remark !

You could better give me your opinion than to criticize the Zyphon one.
Sampler is for previewing, a global view of whole movie. It don't has prediction wishes. Mencoder don't need prediction.
Other thing. Maybe you can give me another lesson please, I think that Mencoder yes has quality encode mode, you can keep Q in a value and Q won't move of gived value. I know that we don't use this way, but it is possible, or not?
MNCSampler, give you a preview with 2 pass, this is an explanation in case that you don't had see that in the script.
It has an error in order of chunks, as told me rds_correia by PM, and I will work over that.


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Prodator I like your work and so these kinds of works generall do have my respect ;-) but we also he to see things in their quintessence,

In here we are used to see a "sampler" in combination with an encoder to see as a prediction tool.
And no matter what you write in your instructions, .... many people will see it like explained in the line above. Thats why some pals could be confused.

Thers NO criticism on Zyphoon at all, Phil just tried to make clear the situation thats all.

In 1pass it hasnt when using the params we found out till now in that general mencoder thread! Encodermaster opened some time ago a Thread where this subject was treaten.

As we dont encode at "flat" Q but using a dynamical Q which bases on motion estimation algorythm, that Q curve is at mencoder at one pass NOT accurate to a bahaviour it should be.

If you tweak your Q curve to more flat in mencoder, then your approach could work, but in mencoder a flat Q does end up in bad results in lower bitrate scenes and EVEN forces then bitrate drops.
Well you could force a Q of 1 but the mega end size would be the result.

I'm not sure anyone but you understood that this way. So your precision is important.

You ask for my opinion but I gave you my opinion while I was answering to Zyphon : a 'prediction tool' for mencoder is useless and I understood that you batch was such a tool.

But I don't really see the purpose of a preview file either as the result of an encoding depends on the bitrate repartition all other the movie and you can't just "cut a slice" and encode it even in two passes and hope the result will be the one you wil have in the real encode :!:

:arrow: again MENCODER IS NOT A QUALITY BASED ENCODER ! So you can't work on a sample and extrapolate the result on all the movie like you do with tmpgenc and CQ mode !

So I'm really sorry to have commented badly your tool without having effectively read the script but the final comment is still the same : useless and lack of time; I'm sorry Pro.

Ahamm,
Phil, I did write a MEncoder guide but I wasn't aiming to explain MEncoder in detail on it. Just the basics.
Such guide was just for people to "get into" MEncoder and by the use of AviSynth scripts.
That's what I was aiming.
Fortunately soon we had more buddies like you visiting the FFmpeg forum and that really have been helping me a lot.
Besides that I come here everyday in search for more information that you and others can provide me so that I can improve my skills.
Which by the way are below the average skills here and I never tried to hide that from anybody.
Once in a while I try to aid somebody as some of you do with me when I'm needing help.
And when I see that I cannot help I try to prepare things so that one of you see the guy's posts there is already enough info to deal with it.
That's basically it. I was just trying to help buddy ;-)
Cheers

Don't worry, even if I would have wrote this guide myself I will still have same advice on it because I discovered a lot of things on the encoder that I didn't suspected two days ago and I reach the conclusion that this tool is not mature for a guide of any kind. Guide is when the tool has reached a post-beta state.

BTW reading this I clearly realize that I never read your guide ;-). My comment wasn't for it so.

I did not say either that people making guides want to act as "guru" of the matter. That very rarely their goal. But the problem is that the guides are read by people that have even less skill. And THESE guys can't understand that THAT guy wasn't a guru. That leads to lot of question like... WOWIEGIRL ones ! :-(
(as you probably understand there, I'm a little more upset by other things that the one concerning mencoder ;-))

And the pervert effect of all of this is that we lose time to answer question from people that can't even understand the answer (and I do not blame them !)

FYI 10 days ago I didn't want to go into mencoder because I knew how pathetic is the situation of this encoder. But I was litteraly projected in the roller-coster because of all the questions with no answer that I saw all around the forum. So this is your fault ! :-D :lol:

I quote Dialhot because I want to answer that unlucky commentary, but later.

First, I beg your perdon if in any form I confuse you all.
and Dialhot later
I know that prediction is not usefull. I knew it before posting the script. You could read right and all, isn'it?, or you answer with preconceived ideas. What do you think, that I am stupid.

If script name to confuse you, I will change it, thank you for your advice.
If any of you don't see this script usefull, don't use it.

And finally come on with the firs one

What a long post. The long is the script and you did not read it nothing at all.

What kind of advise I ask you?
I only ask something to rds_correia:

Or it was a long post too and you did not read it too.
You read the word Guide here, in any place? What are you saying.
If you talk about my guides, it don't speak nothing about technical issues. Those guides are for help people. They are an enough easy way for start with a DVD or an AVI and to arrive to a (S)KVCD/KDVD. They, my guides, I can't to speak for other people, takes parameters from MencodeMe, just the encode.bat and temp.conf files that MencodeMe do it, and people can modify them, but at his own risk. I don´t give advise over any option in Mencoder. But this, you don't know because you don't read my guides at all. (to long reasons)
I know now what is true problem.
Problem is that you think of yourself that you are to much, but you are nothing.
Dialhot.

You don't seem understand that our guides not are Mencoder techs guides. http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/error.gif
My guide, in his tittle, say very well that is an intermediate guide.

If you don't want, don't anwer to newbies. Just refer to http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10345

@Pro & Phil
Come on guys.
I think it's time we post something usefull here.
Too many posts OT as it seems this is a topic for those who want to try Prodater's batch file for preview.
There are other ways of making conversation ;-)
Cheers

[quote="Dialhot"]I know we don't use this in mencoder but it is possible to encode quality based.

and Prodater's Idea is oke If you encode really slow and wan't to see what your movie's like it could be usefull.
The bat file want's to open mencoder so many times that my computer is giving me alot of errors you said to use as many samples as minutes in the movie well I shut it down after 50 :P . And I had 50 little m2v files 0kb large :? was your batfile going to join them?


Edit: the quote went wrong :oops:

You quoted all the thing except the part you really need to read : a previewer based on a sample is USELESS for an encoder that is not quality based. The result of memcoder is average based :!:

To taste a soup with a spoon is relevent as all the soup have the same taste so you can just take a sample and extrapolate the taste of all the soup.

:arrow: the preparation of a soup is "quality based"

To taste a cherry and extrapolate on the taste of all cherries carried by the tree is irrelevant because fruits didn't received the same amount of sun whole other the branches.

:arrow: the growth of cherries is "average based"

Mencoder is not a soup cooker, it's a cherries tree.

THAT is why your approach in making this script is useless. The idea was interresting (and the realisation clever), but asking some advice before to work on it would have prevent you for what I called "lost of time".

@rds
If you like to do things with no goal, do as you want...

@koekies
I think there is a post from Inc just above that explains why the part of the manual of quoted isn't usable.
(if it was, we would have did it since a long time insteed of loosing time in 2pass encoding ;-)).
That is typically the kind of sentence inspired by guides posted with fair knowledge of the problem I wanted to avoid.
NO the tool of prodater CAN'T give you any idea on how will be your movie. And I explain all above.

Cherries and soup...

Edit :
Of course I didn't mentioned this line but I won't forget it...

Lol well I am a newb after all, I dont fully understand Mencoder fully im afraid. :(

NEvertheless my answer that you quoted was out of the subject so you can read the remainder of the thread to increase a little your knowledge about mencoder :-)

In first pass you will obtain many log files maybe of 0kb because is so little the info for these log files. In second pass you will obtain many m2v chunks. When Mencoder finished, batch file will join all these chunks in one file and will delete all chunks. (Still has a bug, chunks are note joined in order, I am working over that)


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Thanks I am learning a lot about Mencoder all the time and this thread has some very interesting points of view and does indeed increase my knowledge of this encoder.

So thanks guys. :)

But the samples won't really give what it would look like. The bitrate might be the same.
But in the second pass mencoder spreads it really different than mencoder would do with small samples. Wouldn't it? If you encode a small part of the movie with the same bitrate as you would encode your full movie bitrate viewer would have really different bitrates at those parts.

-Koekies

You perfectly understood what I wanted to say.

Talking now "neutral" and with --no offense-- at all ... :) :

The problem at KVCD in here actually is that some developing users are releasing guides on a tool which is not actually enough known in its habbit related to some output formats.
A guide is MEGA usefull for people which want to "get into the materia mencoder" .... and thats cool! And we all do apreciate that peoples try to bring such interesting (even if not in final state) Tools more near to other people who want testing it.

Theres only one "little" thing which results beside that.
"Guides" generally at KVCD stand for a way to get successful encodings (noobs/new visitors do see that this way ;-) ).
And so many new users take guides as "a way to get that phenomenal compilant KVCD "thing" working" ... so they dont see its "real" purpose even if guide athours do mention it thats just a "workout" to see what that encoder is able to do.
So visitors try and ... of course in such a not "final" state like in the case of mencoder the chance of 70/30% is given that they fail!
This will produce only one opinion finally: "KVCD doesnt work and isnt compilant" ... means a simple failure on one encoder which is known "by us" will give a bad image to KVCD seen in a whole. Because those visitors or mega newbies do judge very simply and will give that opinion to other places.

Well what I did say now is "just" a way how it "could" end up .... as many visitors/Noobs do directly enter the "peak" of our developings/testings.

So these words are my little quiet "thinking" and are not an offense to authors of mencoder guides! :)


I personally think whe in here have many straight discussions and till now every diskussion got "even" a constructive final end. Thats the way in here!

But such personal adressed "senseless" attacks don't enhance friendly atmospheres in here, neither they are constructive ---- just a hint! ;-)

And as you are a mod in here I personally would apreciate if you could switch back to "moderate" replies again as the past showed us that this is your normal way. :)




Spoken generally:

I do quote Jorel:
"Friendship is all"!
Maybe I do quote it to often as a final conclusion for me, ... but everything is contained in these few words which is needed.

Best greets
Inc.

But if you allready had the divx2pass.log and would use that for the samples and al the samples would be
made with vpass=2 would the bitrate be spread more like it would in the real movie.
But that doesn't really matter because then it would take really long to make a sample
and that wouldn't be like the whole idea of quickly making a sample (which was a great idea prodater :) ) originally was.

Each pass is outputted in a MovinameNumber.log file, so info of each chunk is present for second pass.

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yes but that's a totally different log than you get from the first pass of the entire movie.

you could test it by making a log by scanning the entire movie. And joining the logs in the right sequence from all your samples in the right order and compare.
But that's alot of work and I'm very shure they'll be different

Well, I don't knew that before. I need to see results for myself (and I wiil do) but, in any case it is a nice toy. I like to see that slices.


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you could test it with quality based encoding and mencoder has anyone ever tried that before? those results should be about the same.
Like I said it was a good idea. But with my mencoder build I get amazing speeds :p 80fps 8O it doesn't take so long to encode the movie for me. But I can only encode in 720x480 :P

-Koekies

This is a 50 fps limiting area here. Didn't you see the signs ?

:officer:

:driveby:

Updated 07/JUN/2004: Fixed bad order of chunks when rebuilding m2v final stream.

Look at first post.


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Hi everyone,

Quality based encodes are not possible with mencoder by just varying vqscale. This can produce terrible bitrate peaks, plus the difference between vqscale=2 and vqscale=3 is enormous and vqscale=4 already looks bad. It's not impossible to do quality based: one can tweak rate control equation and vratetool so mencoder doesn't care about average, and then vary scplx_mask and lmin (and maybe other parameters) to get different "quality". But I don't think it makes sense to go ahead with it. Mencoder gives good quality with 2 pass VBR and it's very fast. :roll: But if anyone has interest in this, check the old mencoder thread, the one with more than 20 pages.

On the other hand, I can see where this tool can be really useful. One of the reasons I like to use OnePass Quality based with CCE (besides speed), is that I can somehow garantee that the quality will be good. If I manage to fit my video matherial in CCE using Q30, quality will be good for me. Q30 may mean 1000 kbps or 4000 kbps, depending on the source matherial, because compressibility varies a lot. This was not possible with mencoder, till this Prodater64 idea. Now I can encode a sample at vqscale=3, calculate the average and see how far it is from the average I'll use, so I can know the quality of the final product. So let's say that to encode some movie and fit in on CD I have to use 1200 kbps. I encode a sample at vqscale=3 using Prodater sample, and it comes out as 3000 kbps. So I know quality will be bad, and I'll go for 2 CDs or lower resolution. Or maybe it comes out as 900 kbps. So I know I can use a higher resolution.This can save precious time! :D 8)

And what do you do if you sample don't go other 1500 but you have birate peaks above 10.000 in the whole movie ? Hugh ... ? :?

Note: which tool do you use to calculate the average ? A simple calc or something else ?

What I meant is that the samples are small parts of the movie and your tool aply's the average bitrate in the whole movie
to a small part of the movie but in the fully encoded 2 pass movie the bitrate of your small part isn't the same as the
average bitrate of that part in the fully encoded 2 pass movie.
So there fore you wouldn't really see how the bitrate would be spread over the movie after a 2 pass encode and what
the quality would be. Do you get my point now?