KDVD: Question about DVD-Specification
 

Hy Guys,

I've a question about the DVD Spezification like you can see in the Topic.
Say me if I'm right or wrong

352x288; MPEG-1 (also MPEG-2)?; 1,8 Mbps; 4:3 (Also 16:9?),
352x576; MPEG-2 (also MPEG-1)?; 9,8 Mbps; 4:3 (Also 16:9?),
704x576; MPEG-2 (also MPEG-1)?; 9,8 Mbps; 16:9 & 4:3,
720x576; MPEG-2 (also MPEG-1)?; 9,8 Mbps; 16:9 & 4:3,

I hope I haven't miss something. THX.

Re: Question about DVD-Spezification
 

MPEG-2, 525/60 (NTSC): 720x480, 704x480, 352x480, 352x240
MPEG-2, 625/50 (PAL): 720x576, 704x576, 352x576, 352x288
MPEG-1, 525/60 (NTSC): 352x240
MPEG-1, 625/50 (PAL): 352x288 not anamorphic.

http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#3.4

So I can put all encodes in 16:9 and PAL 352x288 not?

No, there is an error (either in the copy/paste from Pro or in the DVDDemystified) : VCD res CAN'T be anamorphic, both in NTSC or PAL.

I'm sorry, was my fault.
I'm forget add test for this mpeg2 resolution, as in original test none of both was present.
:oops:

OK, thx for your answers. :wink:

I don't know if I'm turning blind or something but I can't find any thread on recommended max. bitrate for KDVDs -> One movie/DVD, two movies/DVD etc. Also, I have forgot about the DVD compatible GOPs. Are they 15 for PAL and 18 for NTSC?

all kvcd resolutions have worked for me with dvds, with various aspect ratios..

for eg..

320x240/288 - 4:3 mpeg 1 & 2
320x480/576 - 4:3 16:9 anamorphic mpeg 1 & 2
480x480/576 - 4:3 16:9 anamorphic mpeg 1 & 2*
528x480/576 - 4:3 16:9 anamorphic mpeg 1 & 2*
544x480/576 - 4:3 16:9 anamorphic mpeg 1 & 2*
704x480/576 - 4:3 16:9 anamorphic mpeg 1 & 2
720x480/576 - 4:3 16:9 anamorphic mpeg 1 & 2

* not dvd spec, but works :D

i would keep max bitrate at about 5000, average 4000, min 800.

i think u r right with the GOPs..

1 thing i got to say - dvd2svcd rules with cce and d2sroba.

Only if you have 40GB of free disc space to do the process unfortunally ;-)

I only mainly do KDVD's these days and I have to say that DIKO rules for this process especially when using CCE as the encoder.

It is the easiest program to use. :D

DVD-RB with last RB-OPT did by Sansgrip is so much better.

I did only one disc with it but I already start to be in love :-)

Hi Phil, I did look into DVD-RB but I haven't got around to testing it out yet.

I have downloaded SansGrip RB-OPT as well so I should try it.

DIKO for me still does a fine job and I usually author in DVD-Lab with pretty good quality.

@Phil

Can I do multipal DVD backup to one DVD with DVD-RB? If so then I must try this tool using CCE.

No. DVD-RB is for REAL DVD backups, that means when you really want to backup your original to put them back in a safebox while you are reading the copy. That copies all the DVD structure, menu and extras included.

Oh wow! That is excellent news Phil.

I currently use DVDShrink to back up my DVD's, would you recommend DVD-RB with SansGrip's RB-OPT to back up my DVD's?

In your opinion is the quality better? I would appreciate any info that could help me out on my way. :D

Thanks again for the info Phil. :)

EDIT: What does it use to make the AC3 audio? BeSweet?

DVDShrink when you have less than 15% to compress and no more than 30 minutes to do the work.

DVD-RB above 15% and/or several hours.

:-)

How an encoding made with KVCD Matrix, using CCE in OPV mode, can be a lesser quality than a transcoding done by DVDShrink ? ;-)

Excellent if it uses the KVCD matrix then the quality will be far superior to DVDShrink. :D

dont need 40 gb, i have partitioned my hd, to 38gb, n max it uses it 11gb. thats max...

40gb, r u sure ?

4 - 8 gb rip
upto 5 sample tests - 40 to 60 mb each
final encode.
audio ripped 500mb
then dont do the multiplex (.bat trick in multiplexxer settings)
import the files into dvd lab pro
compile.. (by this time u can have deleted the main ripped vobs)
another 4 gb (but minus the deleted vobs)

how do you work out 40 :?: :?: :?: :? :? :?

with diko - i experienced too much trouble.. n its not very much customizable for my liking, dvd2svcd kicks ass for beginner or advanced imho.

Because you are doing half of the job manually :!: (and as you say, at this point you can do a little clean up in the directory).
We are not talkign about doing things manually, do we ?

If you let the tool running all the process, you need :
6-8Gb for the source ripp
4.37 GB for the video and audio elementary streams
4.37 GB for the muxed mpeg
4.37 GB for the muxed mpeg with subtitles !
4.37 GB for the final authored disc.

That is 30GB (some line are mising there like space for ac3 files extracted form the vobs), not 40. The diff is really so important ?

Doing all manually I need half this size. With DVD-RB you need ripp+encoded+authored that is near 20. Still 10 GB less.

Ist the diff really so important ? when you can use 120Gb or more HD.

Wow that is a lot of Hard Drive space required when compared to CloneDVD or Shrink. I know the quality is better using the 'Notch' Matrix and DVD-RB but I wasn't aware it needed so much space. :(

Not when you have a 40GB on your laptop with win2000 installed on it of course ;-)

Else, no it is not important WHEN YOU ARE AWARE OF THE PROBLEM ! That is the purpose of the forum also, to warn people. Because manual D2S never mention it needs so much space.

EDIT: and I hadn't see Zyphon's post yet ;-)
Note: Zyphon you can still work from the DVD with AnyDVD installed but it is not recommanded (for your drive safe).

alternative:
check "no images" in cd image tab.
open the notepad and write:
@ rem
save as "RunBBMPEG.bat" and put in the bbmpeg folder under d2s
choose that "RunBBMPEG.bat" in the multiplexer tab.
check "don't delete any files" in misc. tab.
encode as normal(choose the kvcd notch)
you will get:
6-8Gb for the source ripp
4.37 GB for the video and audio elementary streams
you will need less then 13gb do do the whole job :!:
:arrow: here you can delete the 6-8Gb for the source ripp!

after the CCE encode take the encoded video file(or puldown encoded file ntsc).mpv and the .ac3 and author in tmpgencdvdauthor(or other authoring program)

plus 4 gb if you used pulldown (as you mentioned just under).

I also forgot this part in my list posted above and that give a total of 34 GB if you let D2SRoba works alone.

right :!:
6-8Gb for the source ripp ,
4.37 GB for the video and audio elementary streams and
plus 4 gb if you used pulldown
....then needed round 16.5Gb!

long time no see my friend...

where u been jorel :lol: :?:

Thanks for the info Phil.

As it happens I did have to buy AnyDVD because ages ago I purchased CloneDVD to back up my DVD's until I turned to DVDShrink.

Hopefully now though Sansgrip tool will eliminate both. :D

Hey Guys.

Now, I've made a DVD with a res. of 352x576 in 16:9 but the DVD-Player doesn't read this flag and there aren't any borders. First I have put the Video, after patching in 4:3 because TMPGEnc DVD Author can't read this res. in 16:9, and after authoring I repatched the files to 16:9. But Now, the DVD-Player see it as a 4:3 movie.

What I've done wrong?

Hope you can help.

Or isn't a res of 352x576 anamorph compatible?

You can't encode 352x at 16:9 for DVD target :!:
It's out of DVD specs. You must encode 4:3

-kwag

I've one another question to the spec.

At the moment I encode with HC Encoder and want to use only one B-Frame because the quality is a little bit better and this gives me more compression. In the past, I also make my ONE-CD-Encodes with TMPGEnc with only one B-Frame and the results are very, very good and this SVCDs and VCDs were played very well on my SAP.

Now, my question:

Are one B-Frames allowed in a DVD-Stream? Or is the only limitation the lengh of a GOP?

Hope you can help me.

I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be compliant.

I can't see how setting 1 B frame can compress more than setting 2 B frames :roll:

-kwag

Like in the PM. In my tests 1-B-Frame gives me more compression and it looks in high motion scenes better as 2-B-Frames. But I test again and post my results.

But you say it's dvd-compliant?

Another test with HCE and CQ:

1-B-Frame(s) - 85.671Kb; ~0,49x% more compression
2-B-Frame(s) - 86.177Kb;

1-B-Frame(s) - 100.434Kb; ~0,79x% more compression
2-B-Frame(s) - 101.222Kb;


Today, I post also my results with TMPGEnc's CQ mode.

What is the actual GOP structure in all those cases? VirtualDubMod will show it properly.

Can you explain this? I don't understand, what you mean.

It's a GOP of 15 Frames and in one example 2 B-Frames between the Ps and one with only one B-Frame between the P's, or what you mean?

Exactly. What it is like in the encoded file - is it really IPBPBPB... or something else?

Yes, it is.

IPBPBPBPBPBPBPB is my GOP and have more compression then the same with 2 B-Frames. I've tested it also with TMPGEnc again and it is more then 2% more compression.

But I have a problem with my TMPGEnc, hope you can help and test it on your systems.

If I set my GOP to "1-5-1-1-15" I only get a GOP of 12 8O
If I set my GOP to "1-14-1-1-15" Then I get a GOP of 16 8O

I can't get a GOP of 15 with TMPGenc 2.520.xx. Only I set to "1-16-1-1-16" and then switch ClosedGOPs on then I get 15 Frames. :oops:

Do you have the same Problems with 15 Frames? With 18 it works.

EDIT: With 1-B-Frame only (sorry don't know the word) values like 12, 14, or 18 are possible. With 2-B's only 13, 15, 17 etc. are possible. With the option closed GOP all values are possible.

Sorry, but it just doesn't work that way.
If you do a 2-pass encode, which guarantees an accurate file size, you'll see that at lower bitrates the 2 B frames clip will look far better that 1 B frame.
As you go higher in bitrate, the opposite occurs, and you'll get a sharper picture with less B frames.
If you can afford even higher bitrates (>~10Mbps), IP GOP will be better than IBBP, and if you can afford >~50Mbps, then I frame only GOP is the best :D
You're obviously using CQ mode, and the encoder will compensate for frame (GOP) length.Sure. IBP or IBBP is DVD compliant.

-kwag

For me my 1-B-Frame encodes looks great and they have less blocks then the 2-B-Frames. They looks also better in high motion scenes because there is 1-B-Frame better.
Here some pic from my TMPGEnc test with 1, 2 and 3-B-Frames:

http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/i.../2005/05/5.jpg


The GOP are:

1-20-3-1-0
1-27-2-1-0
and
1-41-1-1-0 (from inc.)

The compression of one b-Frame is much better.

EDIT:

If you say this then 1-B-Frame would be the best choise for CQ mode in every encoder. But the quality looks also better with HCE 2pass.


EDIT:

This is what I actually want. :D