KVCD: Quality showdown - resolution vs. CQ for file size?
 

Kwag,

I have read just about every post in these formus. (Yes... I have too much free time on my hands). 8O

I have also tested just about every approach given and (of couse) I keep finding that your suggestions are always better than the other alternative suggestions. :lol:

One thing that has not been touched on is EXACTLY how resolution and the CQ value on templates work towards maintaining quality while reducing file size.

Specifically, if the end result is going to a VCD played on a non-HDTV output (standard NTSC), then isn't anything over 352x240 just wasted resolution?

I have found that the KVCD 3 MPEG1 template looks just about perfect at a CQ of 12 and I can get very close to 120 min of DVD ripped video.

Here is the question? When you are pushing the envelope on lowering file size why not bring down resolution to 352x240? Why not bring CD below 12? Will lowering the max bit rate do much (if it is not a high action video sequence). What about lowering the low end bit rate?

The templates rock. So many movies are not fitting on 1 CD that I just want to see how far I can push this.

I don't have enough knowledge of the encoder or MPEG to know exactly how CQ and resolution play off each other for file size.

At the end of the day there are only so many bits that can be in the file. Those bits have to be read by the DVD player in a known format. I am confident that if compatability is not an issue then VCD is the way to go over SVCD because there will be less wasted resolution if you are outputting to a regular TV via S-Video. :?:

I know this opens up a ton of discussions. I am just trying to make sure the choices I make are based on knowledge. Your suggestion about using HeadAC3he was so right that I am addicted.

(And I have not given up on you getting checks from TMPGEnc. :lol: Pegasys should double the price and include your templates in their retail version. You could live off the royalties with time keep posting!)

Thanks,

Grantman

Stay tuned Grantman :mrgreen:
I've been cranking a new template since yesterday. The KVCD-LBR (Low Bit Rate ) to allow +-180 on a CD. :lol:
If I finish the tests, and I get good reports ;) , then it will be released soon.

Here's a taste:
http://ns1.shidima.com/kwag/matrix-lobby.mpg

That sample is 3 minutes and 36 seconds. File size ~18MB :mrgreen:

This is really designed for "convenience" with a good quality/size balance. It's not designed to view on HDTV's. It should look very good on just about any TV set. Up to 27" or so. Perfect for travelers to take on planes, and for portable DVD players with small screens.
Who knows, maybe the quality is good enough for many people, and you'll fit just about any movie on a single 80 minute CD-R 8)

Again, stay tuned :wink:

-kwag

KVCD One CD
 

Kwag

Just ran test on your "New Template" Used Nero 5.5.9.9, Pioneer DV 343 and my Panasonic LV55 Portable, looks great on the small screen (I do travel a LOT) on the big screen, needs some work, but as you said, this is for traveling. On my Sony 61" played good, not very sharp, on my Sony 36" looks very good, so all I can say is keep up the good work....by the way I start my traveling next week....will be taking a lot of CD's thanks to you and all your very hard work.......will be looking forward to runing a complete movie with the new template.........

Aloha
Bud

Re: KVCD One CD
 

Thanks for trying that out Bud :D
The resolution is 352x240, so we're squeezing the last quality drop out of TMPEG and KVCD :lol:
I also burned the sample and watched it on my 5" portable DVD, and it looks very good. Even on my 60" Magnavox rear screen projection, it's pretty good. On my HDTV, you can see the artifacts. But hey, I think it's pretty good for fitting 180 minutes on a CD! I believe it's a very watchable mpeg file :lol:

-kwag

This new template that your creating sounds very interesting.
Watched the sample, its not bad at all, the file size is amazing for such a high action scene. Compared to the standard VCD template which would of made the file 35mb.. 18mb is impressive :)

Would come in handy for sure!

Interesting information... comments welcome!
 

Check out this URL:

http://forum.vcdhelp.com/userguides/98177.php 8O

I am not suggesting I buy into CVD. I like where Kwag is going with the templates... :twisted:

But there is some nice technical detail to be learned in this article. Some of the ideas/concepts are useful in tweaking these templates. 8O

There is some specific details about max quality for S-Video on an analog TV. I have a 35" Sony Trinitron and I think the KVCD templates look great. :P The news about a possible 1 CD solution for less important content is exactly what I have been hoping for with the tweaking. :wink:

Of couse anything worth value long term I would put on multiple CDs. I just like the 1 CD solution for movies that are not A-List. :wink:

Once again... Kwag is the man. You were there before I even asked and like always... instead of just answering you have presentes too. :P

What more can you ask for? :twisted:

(FYI... I am willing to help test templates. I am running about 125% of real time when encoding with the KVCD 3 templates. A 120 minute movie takes about 150 minutes max to encode.) :wink:

System specs :roll:
=========
Athlon 1900+ (Overclocked to 2000+)
512 MB RAM
(2) 80 GB Western Digital Special Edition
GeForce 4 Ti 4400 (overclocked to 300/600)
Windows XP with all current Codecs and updates

Of couse I also want to see the goodies early whenver possible. :P

Thanks again for all your work Kwag. I appreciate it on a daily basis.


Grantman

Re: Interesting information... comments welcome!
 

Hi Grantman,
Thanks for the link and comments.
Try the SKVCD template. It was created as a step up from a standard CVD. It's the "CVD substitute on steroids" :wink:
It has the same specifications that a CVD has, but by using our own GOP and Q.Matrix, you get far longer playing time, while maintaining the same or better picture quality. If your player supports CVD playback, then it will also play SKVCD.

-kwag

SKVCD works great... how to tweak?
 

I am very interested in the new templates you are cooking up. But until then the SKVCD worked very well for what I am trying to do. :D :twisted:

There is do doubt it is not a sharp as the K3s and there is occational "noise" around low movement (like someone's head or arm when standing still with slight movement). :roll:

When trying to get more out of these to fit 1 CD is is preferable to lower resolution or CQ. The output is going to a regular TV connected to a standalone DVD player. So far this thing plays all formats so the only limitation is me. :oops:

Specifically... what does the 352 x 480 resolution buy you over 352 x 240 if you have to lower the CQ to compensate? Is there a benefit to the K3 resolution with lower CQ? :?:

I know I am beating this into the ground but I just want to understand how a higher CQ vs. higher resolution can be compared. Also, being that I am not concerned with anything above NTSC (S-Video) what can I drop without noticeable difference? :?:

Unrelated note: :oops:

I do not like MPEG Mediator... :evil: To many glitches with VOB files not being picked up in order regardless of the order in the input box. Missing pieces in the output and a more difficult time with sync on the remux process. :twisted: :evil: :twisted:

But I love the process you gave me about doing the audio/video seperate. I can't believe I ever did it the other way. 8) Now I just take the AC3 output right to HeadAC3he and the results are AWSOME at 128 bit. My audio set up far outweighs my video so I would pick up subtle quality issues. NOTHING... 8O

In fact, the quality coming right from the AC3 stream instead of the WAV file that MPEG Mediator creates seems to noticibly improve quality. I am only decoding Dolby Surround not digital but it sounds excellent. The dual channel at 128 is so good that I did not pick up much difference between the original DVD and the VCD I burnt. :lol:

Thanks, thanks, thanks... :P :P :P :P :P

Kwag,

Downloaded matrix-lobby.mpeg for a look see. Played it my PC
(WinDVD) and TV (27"). Here's my subjective opinion. For the
size (18.3MB) it looked good on my TV provided you sit at least
10 to 15 feet back. There was some bolckiness as Neo entered the
turn-stile. But generally the action is stable and quality is good.
When "Green Mile" hit the video stores, I bought a VCD version from
the internet. This three hour movie is on one CD. It was and
still is excellent picture quality. I don't know how it was mastered but,
I have never been able to get quality like that on one CD (650MB)
three hours plus. The only method that came near that is GKnot
where the bitrates are based on the movie length, aspect ratio,
and number of cd's used. I know this is VCD and file size prediction
is difficult but, if you could, then allocating bitrates for the best picture
quality is the way to go. For example, if less than 120 minutes
min=500, max=1550, etc. To test this you need movies of various
lengths and testers to tell you which setting are working. Even with
KVCDx3, depending on the movie length certain VBR_CQ, min, and
max settings are getting better results then the default settings.
I try new settings based on comments of those who post a specific
movie and their settings. I keep track of movies that are similar and
with test clips check them out on new but similar movies. In general this
does work. Keep up the good work. :)

Stay tuned. That's one of the films I'm using for testing the template :wink:
I'll post a sample on this one, so you can compare to your commercial VCD. It would be great help if you could cut a one minute clip from your VCD and post it. That way I can measure that against what I'm trying to acomplish.

-kwag

Hi Kwag,

I'd be happy to send a 1 minute clip, if I only knew how
to edit the mpeg. What tools would I use and how do I
send this clip to you :?:

-black prince

new temp
 

its looks :lol: great !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You should be able to open the .dat file in your VCD with TMPEG. If not, copy it to your hard drive, and run VCDGear. With VCDGear you convert the .dat to .mpg. Then run TMPEG TOOLS and cut off a piece :lol:
When you have that, call me up again, PM me about ftp'ing the file.

-kwag

KVCD-LBR template is cooking in the oven :)
 

Here's what's cooking in the oven for you guys:
http://ns1.shidima.com/kwag/greenmile-lbr.mpg
No audio. Video only. Actually I encoded audio stream of 112Kbps, but it's dummy ( silent ) stream.

That's a sample from the latest BETA KVCD-LBR ( Low Bit Rate ) template that's in the oven. Estimated run time from the template's mpegs is between 160 to 180 minutes at that quality. Still on the final tweaks. Hopefully it will be released tomorrow :wink:

Stay tuned :lol:
-kwag

Kwag!!
 

That looked amazing.. Both the Green Mile and the Matrix scene...

I think the Green Mile is a bit better though, but i guess it might be because its more of a night scene.. I find all the little shadows and lighting in some scenes do bring out the limitations in mpeg though, but considering.. WOW! :)

tks

Hi Kwag,

I quickly downloaded "greenmile-lbr.mpeg" and compared this clip
with my commercial VCD version. Your clip is so close in quality,
that sending you a sample would be moot. :o I decided to use an unfair
test and sat 2 feet from my 27" TV to view your clip. There was a
slight krona around people and distant objects were a little fuzzy.
The commercial VCD was sharper with the same slight krona and fuzziness.
Probably avisynth could add the same sharpness the commercial has.
Sitting back 7 to 8 feet, the quality was very good. :) What excites me
is that you are still tweaking. :D On my laptop the picture is outstanding.
If you can fit "The Green Mile" on one 800MB or even 900MB CD with
this quality, then KVCD will become the standard for all VCD encoding.
My wish in backing up DVD is 1) High picture quality, 2) fits on 1 CD,
and 3) can be played on laptop, stand-alone DVD player, etc. You may
have made my wish come true. :D :D :D :D :D

-black prince

I did :mrgreen: 812,899MB :mrgreen:
"The Green Mile" without final credits. Total time on the CD is 3 hours, 30 seconds and audio at 64Kbps ( Processed with headac3he ) and sounds excelent. I know this movie is an extreme example, because the aspect is almost full screen. But it fits!, at the quality you saw in that sample.
Will post the template later this afternoon. I just burned it to CD, and watched it on our 60" Magnavox TV. Because it's not a HDTV, it looks like a good VCD. On my HDTV, you can see small artifacts on some scenes, and distant objects. On close objects, there's hardly any difference from a regular VCD. I'm still ROTFLMAO :mrgreen:
Here's the second and last sample. This one does have audio. 60 seconds and 4.25 MB :lol: http://ns1.shidima.com/kwag/greenmile2-lbr.mpg

Here's the template ( unofficial until I post it ), so start having fun :lol:
http://www.kvcd.net/KVCD-LBR-352x240-(NTSCFilm)-PLUS.mcf
I will make the official post in a couple of hours in the "What's new" section.

Comments ALWAYS welcome :wink:

Enjoy,
-kwag

hey all,

I'm very glad you've made this template because I haven't yet been able to fit more than about 90 minutes of full screen, 29.97 fps captured video on one 80 min cd and I think this template will solve the problem. Also for long movies that I'm not too particular about having the best quality.

I made a 3 minute sample of "Pearl Harbor" with this template. It has 112 kbps audio and it's not a "happy" scene but I wanted a high action one::
http://www.angelfire.com/film/rendal...mple_lbr00.mpg

To me the sample is very watchable from about 6 feet away on my standard 27" television. I have this movie on two cds with the 352x480 PLUS template and the quality is undeniably better but 180 minutes on 1 cd :D not bad at all!!

I think it's great to have an array of different templates for different applications. Maybe later down the road there'll be a 4 hour template- KVCD VLBR (very low bitrate) :wink:

thx,
ren

Hi Kwag.

I've downloaded the samples, and the template is very good :D :D :D

Of course that you see differences between the other KVCD's, but, hey, it's 180 min/CD 8O 8O 8O

Now i started Braveheart, a 177 min movie, just for test, and take a look around how it will be.
About now i have ( only video ) 102 min and 461Mb :lol:

Also did samples with Bram stoker's Dracula, because the movie has lots of fog scenes, and darkness.

Even on fog, the results were fine, you see some artifacts, but nothing that "hurt the eyes" you know ? :wink:

I don't know if i'ts necessary to do some change in FitCD from the script that we use in 352x240 Plus', but, i'm using the same.

Just a thought : If i have a 130-140 even a 150 mins movie, you think that i could raise the CQ and get still better results ?

Well, I'll kepp touch with Braveheart, ok ?

Nice work Kwag and rendalunit

C ya guys Around !

Pacodoni 8)

Hi pacodoni,
Let us know your results. I know there are many people right now encoding something with the LBR :lol: ( I know I am 8) )

@All,

The main page has been updated, and the PAL template is also posted.
Pal's, try it out :wink:

Enjoy,
-kwag

Another high action KVCD-LBR sample
 

Here's another high action 2 minute sample contribution, so you guys can add it to your sample bucket :lol: ~11 MB.
The audio on this one was encoded with SCMPX, also at 112Kbps with Dolby Surround.

http://ns1.shidima.com/kwag/matrix-chopper-lbr.mpg

-kwag

Hi Kwag and Ren,

Thanks for your great work and effort. :D I just encoded "Predator",
106 minutes with KVCD-LBR and the quality was very good. 8) The
file size 670 MB and audio 112. I have a question though. Since
there was room left on the CD to improve the video quality even
further, how should I adjust vbr_cq, min and max bitrate. Which
would effect the picture quality the most and least effect the size.
If a movie has lots of action vs little action, or dark vs not so dark,
or wide screen vs full screen etc., how will effect file size. Would
building movie profile chart give us some guide lines of where to begin
setting vbr_cq, min and max bitrates based on similar movies. Just
a thought. Again great work and I can't wait to see then KVCD-VLBR.

-black prince

Hey Black prince, how are you.

I made some tests with the CQ, and this wsa the results :

Encoding Bram Stokers Dracula wich i chose because the fog and night scenes, very usefull to see artifacts
I know that is a medium action movie, not high action as predator, that i've already encoded too, and it's a hard one.

Well let's get to the point.

CQ Time Filesize
20 1min 4,05Mb
25 1min 4,6 Mb
30 1min 5,3 Mb
35 1min 5,7 Mb
40 1min 5,9 Mb

BUT, remember, as kwag said, this template is for convenience, not quality

20, it's the template image, wich is good !
25, gets better, some artifacts that you could see are almost gone.
30 you almost see no artifacts.
Of course that if you use 35 in CQ, you'll be using 352x240 PLUS.
I'm talking about no sound movies, but the filesizes are very impressive.

Just do the Math and see what you can do with predator.

If you use the sound like KWAG told, in 64, not 128, you'll get some extra space, so give it a try.

Still had no time to test the Max/Min bitrate, but i'll find some.

Anyway, hope it helps

C ya :wink:

Pacodoni 8)

Hi pacodoni,

Thanks for info. I going to get busy and do some testing.
I used the default settings of KVCD-LBR. I will use this as
my baseline to check quality vs filesize. I'll post
my findings a.s.a.p. :)

Thankx

-black prince

Hi Kwag !!!!

Well, if everything runs ok, you soon can add a new topic as "180 Minutes of video with KVCD template"

Yeah, i have encoded braveheart, using sound in 64, but it came a little bigger than green mile, i got 819 MB without any credits, but, as green mile, it was almost fullscreen, and, has some action scenes.
Anyway, it's very cool use 3 hours on a cd.

Just a thing, when you did greenmile, you used VCDEasy or Nero ?

I've tried to use VCDEasy, but, it didn't let me burn, said that wasn't room...
Is there something to do on it ?

By the way, just for another test, i did Dracula, with the same template, sound at 80 and CQ on 40. The result got cool 8O , and the filesize was 799MB

Well, thats it, now i'll keep on testing...

hi Pacodoni,

Thanks for your info about filesizes with different CQ values- very helpful. To get VCDEasy to overburn-> settings / tools / CDRDAO / check allow overburn and force execution - that should make it work.

Also I was wondering how 64kbps audio sounds? Is there much of a difference between 112 and 64?

thanks!

Hi All,

Here are my test results and my comments about picture quality.
.
GENERAL
Movie:……………. Predator
Time: …………….. 1 hr 46 min 26 sec (106 min 26 sec)
.
DVD2AVI
Aspect Ratio:…... 4:3
Frame Rate:………. 23.976 fps (Force Film)
Frame Type:……… Progressive / Interlaced
Audio:………....……. None
.
FITCD
Source:……………. 480 X 480 (SVCD)
Crop:……………… Accurate
Resize:…………….. 336 x 224
Block TV-overscan.. 1
Destination:……….. (VCD) 352 x 240
.
AVISYNTH
LoadPlugin("E:\DVD Backup\2 - DVD2SVCD\MPEG2Dec\MPEG2DEC2.dll")
mpeg2source("D:\Temp\Predator.d2v")
BilinearResize(336,224,0,0,480,480)
TemporalSmoother(2,2)
AddBorders(8,8,8,8 )
.
TMPGENC
Templet:…………… KVCD-LBR (352x240)
Video Input:……….. Predator.avs
Audio Input:………. None
.
Test#1 (Time 1 minute)
.
CQ…….Min bitrate…….Max bitrate…….File Size…..Picture Quality
20………..300…………….1150…………………6,043KB..... good
21………..300…………….1150…………………6,201KB..... same
22………..300…………….1150…………………6.341KB..... same
23………..300…………….1150…………………6,475KB..... same
24………..300…………….1150…………………6,597KB..... same
25………..300…………….1150…………………6,714KB..... same
26………..300…………….1150…………………6,818KB..... same
27………..300…………….1150…………………6,910KB..... same
28………..300…………….1150…………………6,987KB..... same
29………..300…………….1150…………………7,051KB..... same
30………..300…………….1150…………………7,106KB..... same

*** Note picture quality for a standard television would not
improve just by increasing CQ. HDTV is another matter.
.
Test#2 (Time 1 minute)
.
CQ…….Min bitrate…….Max bitrate…….File Size…..Picture
20………..300…………….1150…………………6,043KB.... good
20………..400…………….1150…………………6,094KB.... good+
20………..500…………….1150…………………6,155KB.... better (a)
20………..600…………….1150…………………6,318KB.... same
20………..700…………….1150…………………6,615KB.... same
20………..800…………….1150…………………6,946KB.... same
20………..900…………….1150…………………7,454KB.... same
20………..1000………….1150………………….7,971KB.... same
20………..1150………….1150…………………8,551KB..... same

(a) artifacts were almost gone, krona around people was the
least visible, and distant objects appeared to have more detail.
Increasing min bitrate above 500 also, did not improve picture
quality.

My conclusion from my own tests are that min and max bitrates
had the most effect on the picture quality. I am encoding the entire
movie using these settings (CQ=20,Min bitrate=500, max bitrate=1150)
to judge the overall quality and filesize. If anyone would like to make
suggestions to help improve my tests, please PM :)

-black prince

Hi Black prince

Cool info, the bitrates sounds very atractive, will trt em on.

But, Did you really not saw differrence between 20 and 30 CQ's ?

I don't know, maybe are different movies, but, anyway, i'll burn the bitrates you indicated, they looked very impressive.

Well thanks for the info, great job.

C ya round. :wink:

Pacodoni 8)

Hi rendalunit

I know what you mean... :)
When i heard about 64kbps i wonder if it would work, but believe me it does, the sound is good, i've tested on the home theater, and sounds cool, the surround, everything.
About 112 - 64, yes, you notice some difference, but not much, at least i didn't.
Well, i'll keep testing, any suggestions, i'm all years.

C ya :wink:

Pacodoni 8)

PS : Thanks for the info on VCDEasy :P

KVCD-LBR Update!
 

Stay tunned. In about an hour, I'm posting an updated KVCD-LBR template, with a sample from the current template, and a new one with the updated template :lol:
Final testing going on now. Looks GOOOOD!!! :mrgreen:
The changes affect the following: Lower the visual macro blocks, increase sharpness, and lower the artifacts level. More details in a while.

@rendalunit, check your PM.

-kwag

KVCD-LBR-09132002-352x240-(NTSCFilm)-PLUS.mcf
 

As promissed. Here you go!.

http://www.kvcd.net/KVCD-LBR-09132002-352x240-(NTSCFilm)-PLUS.mcf

Here's a sample with the KVCD-LBR that was released yesterday: http://ns1.shidima.com/kwag/kvcd-old.lbr.mpg
Here's the sample with the NEW KVCD-LBR update today: http://ns1.shidima.com/kwag/kvcd-new.lbr.mpg

NOTE: The audio on these samples is out of sync. I encoded with TMPEG's cut-edit, and something happened. So don't worry about it :wink:

This update supercedes the template released yesterday, so the old one will be removed from the download page.

Description of changes made to the new template:
(1) Dropped one B frame. It was 3, now it's 2. This makes a tighter GOP, necessary because of such a low bit rate. Makes better picture.
(2) Unchecked "Soften Blocks". Works better.
(3) Dropped MIN bit rate from 300 to 64 :twisted: YES, that makes a BIG difference on dark scenes, by going way deep down on the bit rate, thus we save average bits!.
(4) Changed motion precision from "Highest-Quality" to "High-Quality", No visual change, but almost twice the speed encoding now :lol:
(5) Changed MAX number of frames per GOP to 15. Why? SURPRISE, just something popped into my mind :) If any of you guys are happy with this quality, then why not put your complete collection on a DVD :idea:
DVD standard does specify 352x240 MPEG-1 at 48Khz audio. But the MAX frames per GOP can't be more that 15 for PAL or 18 for NTSC. So if you encode with the KVCD-LBR, but encode the audio at 48Khz, you have a DVD compliant mpeg file! You may ask, what for?
Because if we can put 3 hours on a CD-R, NOW WE CAN PUT ABOUT 15-18 HOURS ON A DVD-R :mrgreen:

Imagine this. You're on a 12 hour flight, watching your complete Star Trek collection on a single DVD :lol: Go ahead, think about the possibilities.

Comments and ideas welcome :wink:

Enjoy!,
-kwag

That Is The Best Info I've Received
 

Kwag

That long flight you talked about, well next week I depart for a 10 hour flight and I have the 10 Part Band Of Brothers stored in the VRO file format, guess where this going to be recorded and played back on my Panasonic LV55 Portable? Will let you know how it goes pior to departing................


Aloha
Bud

Re: That Is The Best Info I've Received
 

:lol: I just knew you would comment Bud :lol:
Please let us know your results. The mpeg's should burn and play in every DVD player on the market, if encoded with audio at 48Khz. Just like the DMR-E20's lowest resolution mode. But that's MPEG-2. Still, you should have a better quality picture than the DMR's 6 hour mode :lol: and it should look pretty damn good on your portable DVD player!
Have a good trip Bud!

Later,
-kwag

Hi ren,

I got your email. The SVCD I used as source is very good quality.
And yes, CQ 20 to 30 seemed to make very little difference in
picture quality, but min and max bitrates helped. The final "Predator"
movie size is 493MB and audio 192khz (150MB). This is the first time
my movie sounded better than it looked. The one minute clip
I chose was where Dutch is knealing down next to the truck and is
about to put explosive on the back and lift it off the logs supporting
the rear axel. It's approximately 24min 14sec into the movie. Taken
one minute from this point there is intense action when the fire fight
begins. Tmpgenc would be using lots of bitrates for these fast changing
scenecs. I looked at the entire movie and close-up scenes were very
good, but objects in the background were fuzzy. Scenes at medium and
far distance were very fuzzy and sometimes blocky. Still this is good
progress and needs tweaking Since Kwag has put out an updated KVCD-LBR
today, I'll start testing again from square one. I also have a VCD
encoded by panasonic encoder from the same source. It looks very
good and has hardly any blocks and artifacts. However, the picture
is generally not as sharp as KVCD-LBR for now. I believe this may be
due to TS(2,2) since the original movie was filtered. The filesize is higher
as you might expect (video = 710MB). As you can tell I am very
interested in KVCD-LBR, since I play movies at work. Portability is
very important to me. I am just glad you and Kwag are even trying to
work with this type of problem. :D :D :D :D :D

-black prince

Kwag, Tested the new template's image, on Dracula, 8O Very good Image, and, using sound made with headache in 128, getsabout 5 meg per minute, of corse that if multiplex later the sound and image i guess the filesize would be smaller, but it's about 160 minutes of movies with 128 sound, And, maybe i'm wrong, but, you don't notice much difference from the 352x240 Puls, if, the new one isn't better.

I'll try more samples, configs of CQ, sound, etc, i'll post 2 ya all.

Just a question, about the Min Bitrate, how can it be so low and get good results ? I didn't want to make any change on that, cos i guess it will be the best let it as it is. Wha do u think :?:

Well, excellent work, Kwag and Rendalunit. :twisted:

C ya
:wink: Pacodoni 8)

hi pacodoni,

I think that the lower min. bitrate results in less visible blocks in dark scenes.
The new template looks excellent- I'm glad I now know that 3 hours of good quality audio and video on 1 cd is possible!

I'm just doing testing of templates and samples like you and others here :D so I should be excluded from your credits :wink:

thanks,
randy

Hi pacodoni,

That's the beauty of CQ mode :lol: . It sustains quality, but when you go into dark scenes where there's hardly video data, the bit rate goes all the way down to the MIN set value. Before, I had set MIN=300. So even on a totally black screen, the video stream bit rate floor would be a 300Kbps stream. Now, it goes down to 64Kbps. This buys us smaller file size, without any quality loss. And you are right, there's very small difference from the 352x240 PLUS. Oh yes, there is! more than one additional hour of play time :lol: I need more feedback from people, because I think that if a movie is Wide Screen and audio encoded at 112Kbps, we can get more that 3 hours 8O . I just finished "When we were soldier" with the new LBR, and the video size is 582,020KB so I encoded the audio at full 224Kbps. Total file size is 819,282KB. This movie is 138 minutes. I also encoded some clips with the standard VCD template that comes with TMPEG, and there's barely any difference compared to the new KVCD-LBR.
I watched the first 30 minutes last night on my 60" Magnavox TV ( Not HDTV ), and it looks like a good VCD. 8O
Also everyone should take a look at this ( Thanks Latexxx! ) : http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1216
I just tried a small clip with the LBR, and the file size was reduced and looks excelent 8O
Here's what my .avs looks like:

LoadPlugin("C:\encoding\MPEG2DEC.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\encoding\Convolution3d.dll")
mpeg2source("K:\SOLDIERS\VIDEO_TS\soldiers.d2v")
BilinearResize(336,192,45,0,630,480)
Convolution3d (1, 8, 8, 8, 8, 3, 0)
#TemporalSmoother(1,2)
AddBorders(8,24,8,24)

Here's the web site for "Convolution3D for AviSynth" : http://hellninjacommando.com/con3d/

Another great tool! I'll be experimenting with this today :wink:
So far, so GOOD :lol:


-kwag

Hi Kwag !!!!! :D

Good news are coming in battalions !!!!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'll find some time to test the widescreen thing.

Just a question ( i guess dumb a one ) the convolution filter, i just add in the avscrypt in FITCD ?

C ya
:wink:
Pacodoni
8)

:lol: :lol: Yes, add it AFTER the resize. If you add it before the resize line, it will be way slower. It will look a little better, but just takes too long.

Tip for everyone trying out the Convolution3D:
If you use this filter, the mpeg will be smaller, so you can increase the CQ_VBR in the LBR template from 20 to 22. This way, small artefacts are further reduced. The file size is just a tad larger.

And BTW, based on my experience with the file size generated with the LBR, after seeing "We were soldiers" which is a full of action movie, I believe that for a regular movies that have normal action scenes, the LBR should easily hit 200 minutes with audio at 112Kbps or 128Kbps 8O 8O 8O Possibly fitting two regular movies on one CD-R. This has to be confirmed :roll:

Try it out :idea:

-kwag

Thanks Kwag, i'm already encoding...

It's ok ( speking in encoding time ) takes 8 hours to a 129 min movie ?


That's how my avs is :

LoadPlugin("D:\Uteis\DVD - VCD\FitCD\MPEG2DEC.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\Uteis\DVD - VCD\FitCD\Convolution3D.dll")
mpeg2source("D:\DRACULA\VIDEO_TS\draculia.d2v")
BilinearResize(336,224,0,0,720,480)
Convolution3d (1, 8, 8, 8, 8, 3, 0)
#TemporalSmoother(2,2)

If you have any suggestionon it, let me know !!

Just for fun, i'm using cq at 30 and sound at 128 8O the average file per minute decrease to 5.9Meg.

Well back to work

C ya :wink:

Pacodoni 8)