In fact MPEG2 is certainely a very good codec in most case:
http://multimediacom.free.fr/Download/MPEG2-HQ5.m2v
Certainely a good choice for HD-DVD/BR for example.

But you can't compare advanved codec like H264 (inloop, variable DCT, CABAC, wpred, multireference frame ...) and very simple codec like MPEG2. Algorithme efficiency is simply better for H264 and by far.

Speak about that with developpeur (H264 dev and MPEG2 dev too) if you want ... :wink:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=96145

and test yourself good AVC encoder like x264. You speak about codec that you don't have test ... :roll:

and finally between LossLess at 25 Mbps and Lossy at 50 Mbps there are no possible discution ... that is a fact ...

I rest my case...

:lol:

I won't rest my case ;)
Because Ogg Theora beats the crap out of any H264 CODEC, and that's a fact :mrgreen:

Edit: That WAS a fact, a long time ago :!:
As I was plain wrong, and the latest X.264 CODEC beats the crap out of Ogg Theora

Edit: On low bitrates, that is. I'm sure H264 target is more geared at HDTV and higher resolutions, but as to 720x480 resolution, theora performs better than H264 at much lower bitrates.

Edit: Again, Theora is way behing X.264, even on lower bitrates.

-kwag

@Sagittaire,

Could you please provide a sample of your file "lossless.m2v", encoded as H264 with the same file size as this :arrow: http://www.mytempdir.com/365204
That's a theora sample I encoded from your lossless.m2v, specifically at a low bitrate that starts to show degradation. Still, it's VERY watcheable.
I'd love to see the equivalent file size made with H264, just to see how watcheable it is :D

(@All, you must use Video Lan Client to watch the sample)

-kwag

No problemo ... lol

My H264 encoding
http://multimediacom.free.fr/Video/H264-Sagittaire.mp4

Your Theora encoding
http://multimediacom.free.fr/Video/Theora-Kwag.ogg

As you can see there are no possible comparison between H264 and Ogg Theora.

Ogg Theora is developpement to OneTech VP3. The current developpement for OneTech is VP7. H264 (Ateme HP and x264 HP) is very better than VP7. I think that MPEG4 ASP (XviD or DivX) is better than Ogg Theora.

At this time x264 is simply the best codec in the world in metric test ... 8)

I can't play your file :!:
Not in Quicktime (7) or even on VLC :!:
What CODEC did you use :?:
Apple's H.264 or the free X.264 :?:

-kwag

Play well with:
Nero Showtime
VLC 0.8.2
Direct Show Player like MPC with ffdshow filter for example

H264 description:
QTAVC is a very crap H264 encoder. Apple use Baseline Profil with no-adaptative bframe support. x264 or Ateme encoder are very better than QTAVC. I use x264 High Profil with the most advanced possible setting ...

Karl, be carrefull that x264 has been enhanced a lot recently, so use the last one if you want to try.
The two samples plays correctly in VLC 0.8.4 also. And what I don't understand is that the theora one can't be considered as good in any way :?
Perhaps I did not understand what Karl intented to say.

I can't play Sagittaire's sample in VLC 0.8.4.a, which is the latest :roll:
I'm going to download it again.

-kwag

As you can see with this (little) example there are no possible comparison between H264 and the other codec.

At this time H264 is able to encode Ultra High Quality 1080p resolution with only DVD hardware support.

At this time H264 is able to encode High Quality 480/576p resolution with only CD hardware support.

OMG
:jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
I take back all I said about Theora :!:
H.264 is WAY ahead of it.

You're right Phil, H.264 has been enhanced by a zillion, from the last time I tested.

@Sagittaire,

No contest :)
This CODEC is really beyond Theora :!:
I guess the Ogg Theora team has a lot of work to do, if they ever want to catch up to this thing :cool:

-kwag

Has anyone tried X.264 on one of the new iPods :?:
Or did Apple screw it up just to enable playback of their own H.264 version :?:

-kwag

IPod use H264 BP@L1.3. You can use x264 with these particular profil and level for IPod.

MeGui can encode directly with this profil ...

... and that's it.
No problem in recognizing someone else was right.
It doesn't mind if the codec is being supported in other forums.
If it does work better, why not say it.

I'm not remarking this because it surprises me.
I'm used to it. That's one of the reasons I love this forum.
Of course, there are a lot of other reasons: knowledge of people in here, generousity, willing to help,...

I guess that when it become a more generalized format, accepted by more (any?) SAP, we will dedicate more post to this codec.

Well ... now I will try to convince you that Libavcodec is best MPEG2 encoder for low bitrate and by very far ... :idea:

A small MPEG2 challenge perhaps ... ???

- Quality
- Target Bitrate
- vbv specification respect

I have a very good source for that ... !!!

As long as libavcodec has the rate control problem, it's useless doing any comparisons.

Try to use again the word "metrics", just to see how long your message last on the toppic.

Sagittaire says that libavcodec is the best codec for, and I quote, "low bitrate" encodes.
For me, low bitrate is something near 1000Kb/s or sometimes even below that.
I can't see how huge bitrate spikes can be avoided here.
Unless the encoding is done with libavcodec and the ratecontrol is taken care by another lib.
But if ratecontrol is fixed then I will surely admit that libavcodec might be one of the very best codecs out there.
Hell, I'd still be using it if it was not because of that ;-).
Cheers

Duh, can you elaborate on that Phil?