Suggestion for DVD filters?
 

Hi there,
I would like to have a suggestion on the filters (and its properly order) for KDVD (full-D1). I am wondering if it is worth to use filters like SpaceDust(), because it is reported that it takes much longer. I am currently only using Fluxsmoother and Legal Clip.

Re: Suggestion for KDVD's filters??
 

Hi syk2c11,

For KDVDs, you're already encoding at a very high resolution, so take it easy on the filters :D
Use Legalclip, mergechroma(blur(1.5)) and spacedust. That should be enough for KDVDs :wink:
SpaceDust is very fast, compared to PixieDust or FaeryDust.

-kwag

Thanks Kwag, I will try and report the result.

Thanks, I was going to post the same question today.

Hi there,
I tried the combination suggested by Kwag (i.e. LegalClip, mergechroma(blur(1.5)) and spacedust), the result was pretty good, it is definitely better than before (just LegalClip and FluxSmoother). I am wondering if FaeryDust is better than SpaceDust? If so, how much longer will FaeryDust take compare with SpaceDust (in terms of percentage, say 30% or more)?? Thanks in advance.

Depends on your input material. About twice 8O :x

-kwag

Re: Suggestion for KDVD's filters??
 

Hey kwag,

I have a similiar question. My goal is to use my DVD's and a replacement for the 2 cd encodes, but I am trying to get approx 3 encodes (6hrs max) per DVD. (I.E. 6 cds). Each encode is approx. 1.43Gb in size (w/ audio) or 1.25Gb (w/o audio).

Presently I am using mergechroma, spacedust, and temproalcleaner. I am doing an encode right now replacing temporalcleaner with peachsmoother. Most of my sources are DVD.

Should I use Half D1, or Full D1 with thes constraints, and which filters should I use for each template. BTW, I usually do most of my encodes at 16x9 and FullD1 right now. Would I gain anything using HalfD1 (CQ?). I also have just a standard TV not a widescreen TV.

Thanks

Racer99

Hi Racer99,

I would just use MergeChroma, PeachSmoother (I'm using that too :wink: ) and C3D with HQ preset. I don't think you need anything else for DVD target. I would go for the Full D-1 encode. 352x480 is very good, but the sharpness difference from 720x480 to 352x480 is like night and day :D

-kwag

Thanks

Kwag,

What do you think of Peachsmoother? I've found it to be very, very fast. Using it and TemporalCleaner is much quicker than Spacedust + temporalcleaner but with playing with the settings it could be possible that no other filtering be needed.

Jim

Hi Jim,

I'm using Peach instead of Space now. It's so much faster, and I like the quality much better. It looks much more natural, and the compression is excelent. Look at this sample. which is a full screen movie I'm currently encoding at 528x480 and targeted to one CD:

http://www.kvcd.net/test-sea.mpg

The script used is this:

Any comments :?: :wink:

-kwag

Hey Kwag,

Have you done a sample comparison yet between using FaeryDust or PeachSmoother? I'd be interested in knowing which gives the best quality (I realize this can change depending on the source also, but I mean generally speaking). Personally, I've always used FaeryDust because I didn't like the resulting quality of SpaceDust as much, even though it was quicker. I'm mainly wondering if the results with PeachSmoother would be as good (or better!?!) than FaeryDust. If PeachSmoother is better than SpaceDust, and equal to or better than FaeryDust, then I just might have a new favorite filter! FaeryDust takes FOREEEEEEEVER! (although it's certainly been worth using it so far, and I hope Steady keeps working on it :) ).

Of course, I'll do some sample tests of my own...but I'm just curious of your opinion (or anyone else's who has compared these filters). Thanks. :)
-d&c

Yes :wink: Take a look at this: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44335

-kwag

dazed&confused - see http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...threadid=44335

There is a comparison between some of the best noise filters there. I find Faerydust and Pixiedust to be the best, but - and its a big BUT - its too slow. Peach looks great on my Tv captures with strong settings - havn't tried with DVD's yet. However, Peach is faster than Spacedust and does better filtering. Its not far of FaeryDust in terms of quality but it definately does leave the odd stray pixel. Combining it with TemporalCleaner tends to do the trick though!

Kwag - For tv caps i've been using -

ConvertToYUY2()
LegalClip()
Crop(16,64,-16,-64)
PeachSmoother(NoiseReduction=50,Stability=20,Spati al=120)
TemporalCleaner()
DctFilter(1,1,1,1,1,.5,.5,0)
Crop(4,0,-4,-0)
LegalClip()

I've really upped the settings for Peachsmoother - probably over did it on this example but the source was quite noisy. It did just as good a job as pixiedust. I didn't set the params for noise etc because the docs say peach does a good enough job on its own.
I'd like to get to the point where i can find some params for a filter like peach and i don't have to chain filters.

Jim

Hi there,
I would like to verify the proper order of the script, should MergeChroma(blur(1.5)) be placed before or after the resizing line? Will the speed be affected?

Yeah, I'd already looked at those picture comparisons from that thread when Jorel first posted here about it (Deen-a3d looks interesting...too bad it's only for avisynth2.5!). But I was curious as to whether or not those same results would carry over to moving pictures. :wink:

I did a good deal of testing today (repeatedly viewing test clips in 1x and 1/8x speed on a 30" 4:3 ntsc TV) between Faery, Space and PeachSmoother (using same settings as the doom9 thread author), and personally I think I agree with jamesp for now that FaeryDust is still the best of the best for avisynth2.07 (if time is not an issue!). But that's just my $0.02, which certainly isn't as valuable (or knowledgeable) as many peoples' $0.02 around here. :oops: :wink:

While PeachSmoother did look very similar to Faery in detail/sharpness to me, there was a very annoying flaw that occurred when one particular actor nodded his head up and down several times. The actor was dark-skinned with very short-shaven black hair. While he nodded, it was as if a large portion of the side of his head stayed in a fixed position while the rest of his head was moving. It was quite noticeable. Using c3dLQ rather than Tempcleaner helped hide it some, but it was still noticeable.

This happened again in another scene with the same actor when he turned his head to talk to someone. Since the flaw was only noticeable with this one actor, I have a feeling that perhaps those specific Peach settings were just a poor match for his particular flesh-tone. With the right settings-tweaks, Peach still might prove to be a good choice for me. But I don't know a lot about "tweaking" parameters, especially when there's a lot of them...plus I'm lazy :lol: . I like to use defaults() whenever possible, and both Faery() and Space() looked better to me on this particular video clip. So I'm sticking with Faery(for overnight encodes) and Space or Space+LanczosResize(for speed) for the time being until someone smarter than me figures out an all-around good default setting for Peach. Or until I'm feeling a bit less lazy (but that might be awhile!). ;-) In hindsight, I probably should have tried Peach's default() parameters also. :roll: :lol: D'oh!! I need a :drink: :!:

I wasn't going to post my test results, but figured someone might find them of minor interest. As you can see below, there wasn't much of a speed gain by using Peach instead of Space on this particular movie-trailer. I suppose different sources will vary though, as always.

-d&c

It's really up to you whether you put it before or after resizing. Before, it will be less aggressive and result in less compression, and will take longer (I don't know how much exactly...nothing too extreme I don't think)...After, it will be more aggressive and will result in more compression, and will be quicker. So you'll have to adjust strength levels accordingly. I do know that placing MergeLuma(Blur(.6)) BEFORE resizing will result in about the same compression as placing MergeLuma(Blur(.41)) AFTER resizing.(I don't know if it still looks about the same though). But these settings are way too strong for most people's tastes and are only meant as an example. I'd put both MergeLuma and MergeChroma AFTER resizing, but some people might say that filtering before resizing results in more fine detail being retained. Try it and see...only you can tell what you like! :wink:

-d&c

YES 8O You're right, and I saw it too on the movie I did "City by the sea" :!: I thought it was just me, but there was a scene where a woman was talking, very still, and her hair looked like it was a wig slightly floating around her head. Like if her complete hair was "on ball bearings" :mrgreen:, I think you know what I mean :lol:
I have never seen this with spacedust, pixiedust or fairydust. I'm going find that same scene and encode it with different parameters in Peach. If it still shows, then there's a nasty bug in peach :!: :!: :!:

-kwag

PeachSmoother is flawed!
 

As the subject says. Here's the scene I mentioned above: http://www.kvcd.net/peach.mpg
Look carefully at her hair :lol: There's an obvious bug in vertical movement in peach.

Now here's the same scene with spacedust: http://www.kvcd.net/space.mpg

I even tried peachsmoother() without parameters. Same effect 8O

I'm going back to spacedust :idea: :!:

Thanks so much dazed&confused for pointing this out :D

-kwag

Re: PeachSmoother is flawed!
 

Heh guys, before throwing your Peach out because you think its gone mouldy :D - it could be a problem with your avisynth script. The docs to Peach state that Peach should be used as early in your script as possible and before any other filtering. In your scripts i've noticed its being called after MergeChorma + MergeLuma - this could be the problem - just a thought anyway! In all my tests i've used Peach first and i've not noticed the problem (although that doesn't mean it exists!)

Jim

Hi Jim,

The problem is present even if you use PeachSmother only in your script. I tried stripping out every other filter, and just using peach, and the effect is still present.
It's definitely a problem with the filter :!:

-kwag

Oh well :(

The hunt for the best filter continues! :lol: With those two clips, Peachsmoother definately looked the most natural, if you ignore the dancing hair :!: I find spacedust doesn't look that great. FaeryDust is great on its own with no other filters but is slow. Fluxsmooth makes eveything a little blurry. Ive never tried convolution3D - i'll try that one next.

Have you contacted the author of peach about the problem? if not i'll contact him through doom9 forums.

Jim

No I haven't contacted him. Please do so :)
Point him here so he can see what's happening :!:

-kwag

Re: PeachSmoother is flawed!
 

No problem-o at all Kwag. :) I'm glad that I was actually able to help you out for a change! (Guess there's a first time for everything). :lol:

-d&c

Hi dazed&confused,

Here's the sample you sent me, so everyone can see the same effect on your clip: http://www.kvcd.net/PeachFlaw-head-nod.m1v

-kwag

Kwag,

I've just tried Convolution3d (Preset=Movielq). The results look excellent and compressablitly is very good. Looking at the results it looks far more natural than SpaceDust or Peach. Have you tried this filter yet?

Jim

I had tried it, but didn't pay too much attention, because the focus was mainly with Space/C3D(HQ)/Flux, etc.
I'll try it later today :)

-kwag

I'll post later tonight - i'm doing a comparison of most of the major filters we all use, it will chart compressability and quality to my eye!

Jim

Hi Jim,

Remember that using C3D, the final file size will be larger than using SpaceDust :!:

-kwag

I got a reply from the guy who wrote peachsmoother. He writes:

You’re seeing the standard behavior where the Peach is really, really sure that there’s no motion. Usually that means the noise estimate is off — Take a look at the docs on the “dot” option and on the “I’m seeing lots of blurring...” question.


__________________
9:) Lindsey Dubb



Looks like thats just the way peachsmoother works.

Jim

so if these settings were used and people were getting stationary or slow moving hair...

PeachSmoother(NoiseReduction=45,Stability=15,Spati al=70,NoiseLevel=4.8,Baseline=3.2)

To fix the problem...
Could you just lower the baseline or have the baseline set to zero?

Same problem, even with baseline=0.

-kwag

Unfortunately, that's my final conclusion on this filter too...based on Lindsey's response to your post over at doom9, I decided to give Peach another shot, first having a good read through the docs and then playing with all the various settings. Nothing eliminated the described problem though. Kwag was right on the money when he said it just seems to be an inherent flaw with how Peach handles movement. Too bad. I wonder if Lindsey even looked at the samples posted in this thread :?: Surely if he knew that no amount of settings-changes within his filter could cure this problem behavior, then he'd want to take a 2nd look at the Peach's "pit" wouldn't he? :wink: But then again I'm sure he's a very busy guy too.

When oh when is Steady gonna release a new and improved version of Dust? We're all dying for an update :!: :wink:
-d&c

:roll:

:idea: .....
talking about busy guys and good filters.....

:?
where is Sansgrip :?: :?: :?:
:(


and please, what filters you all are using now?
:?

:?:

Good question Jorel...I think everybody wishes he'd pop his head in and say hi around here a bit more often (he's a very esteemed member of this board and we all benefit from his insight...did anyone else hear the sound of my lips puckering on that a** kiss! :lol: ). Hopefully life is treating him well...hey, maybe he's even working on THE PERFECT FILTER :!: . :lol: Pretty soon we'll all be fitting the entire Star Wars saga on 1 disc with the x3 template... :lol:

My current script of choice looks like this:
Cheers, :drink:
-d&c

friend dazed&confused :wink:

i will do a sample with your script . :!:

thank you! :D

someone more?

ps:
dazed&confused is one music of the first "ledzep" album
and in "the song remains the same" movie!
very 8) music.

:mrgreen:

Sadly, it looks like very few people are developing their filters anymore. Vlad (who wrote convolution3d and ported TemporalCleaner) says he has no time anymore. Lindsay Dubb has no time to develop peach and steady hasn't been seem for ages so there is no news on Dust. And sadly, Sansgrip looks like he's even too busy to pop in here from time to time, let alone develop any filters. I suppose that real life always takes over in the end, and people have to get back to their lives and families.......

Jim

Hi there,
It's been quite a while. Does anyone has any suggestions for KDVD's filters, I am interested in latest script for clean DVD source. I have been using LegalClip + Mergechroma(blur(1.5)) + SpaceDust() as suggested by Kwag long time ago. Any suggestions please!

Hi syk2c11,

Check the current script section :wink:

-kwag

Hi Kwag,
Are those latest scripts suitable for KDVD full-D1, I remember you had said that KDVD full-D1 does not required that heavy filtering. Please advise.