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@Kwag&Muaddib.
I am sure shh would agree and if either of you are agreeable [especially you Muaddib] I would like to offer my assistance and possibly that of others to help you come to a mutually agreeable solution. |
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But don't you find it interesting that the ones that, agree with Shh all left the forum instead of continue posting his support for him? Quote:
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Ok Mr. Neo Neko,
Now that everything has been starightened about my name and what I write I do ask for one thing off topic (yes it is off topic more than what? 90% of what's been written here? and still everybody can post!). Do you feel you can actually do anything besides calling your lawyer? Is that why you're here? Are you here to start a flaming war? See, that I am only asking you, thus not acusing you of any such acts. But please be advised that you have used (probably without intention :roll: ) my name in vain and in an improper way. I would feel offended although you have already prooved me before of being a civilized person. If back at doom9 or at any other forum (that most probably we're all members of) you can give a precious advise to Mr. shh, I believe you already noticed you will not change what we all feel here. Now talking about civilized: I would ask for all those posting here to keep your posts as objective as possible. 1 - Of course we all see that IF GPL will be accpeted in a court of law, maybe Mr. Muaddib will have to give his sources. 2 - Of course we are all in favour of free software and team work for the benefit of communities. 3 - Of course we all understand that Mr. Shh may or may not be using licenses/law for his own future benefit. 4 - We all understand that, besides Mr. Shh and lately you Mr. Neo Neko, noone EVER asked for Moviestacker sources. Let us all look at this: 5 - Once Mr. Shh released FitCD under GPL and released it's sources. 6 - After some time Mr. Muaddib (and maybe other members of past FitCD forum @kvcd.net) asked for some slight changes/developments on some of the program features. 7 - Mr. Shh (politely or not!) informed the other members that since the source was available they could do the changes themselves (3rd person/plural because I wasn't even registered here) 8 - Mr. Muaddib reacted to this behaviour by making the changes himself and maintaining "his" new program under GPL (his crime as it seems...) 9 - As soon as 1st Moviestacker was released Mr. Shh asks for the sources. He is given some kind of sources that I have not really understood which at this time myself. By then Mr. Shh draws back. 10 - Other releases happen... 11 - After one year Moviestacker 2.1.0 hits the 1st page of the news here and the next day here we have Mr. Shh claiming for everybody's/his rights. I mostly obbey and go by the law. But I'm also on the innocent/weaks side. And here I have to make a judgement that may not be fair: Do I stick with the law and by a margin of 10% of intellectual property support Mr. Shh? Or do I stick with the weaks that REALLY tried to help the community when it most needed (as opposed to other that didn't care!) and support what now may well be 90% of intellectual property of Mr. Muaddib on that code??? No Mr. Neo Neko you may be right or wrong and I really don't care anymore as I already know what Mr. Shh was doing here this whole time. And you have my promisse that I_will_always_support_freeware of any kind under any license and it's author. It's just that I just don't consider Moviestacker based on Mr. Shh intellectual property anymore, unless prooven wrong! @All, So you can all keep attacking each other but be warned that by the rules that support this forum I will advise the Mods/admin of anything said or done here that doesn't go by them (the rules). Remember a great saying: "Friendship is all". If we cannot be friendly let us keep our posts (at least here) civilized. May you all have a nice day PS-BTW Mr. Neo Neko. Being a Mod at Doom9, could you please see and tell us why a lot of members there seem to have difficulties understanding Mr. Jorel? I find that a big surprise because although his English is not perfect noone ever mistreated him here as I've seen at Doom9 even by those who are not regular members, out of not understanding him. Please be so kind to see what seems to be the problem regarding this subject, and advise with me. Since both me and Mr. Jorel speak Portuguese there won't be any misunderstanding and that may help him in future visits there. |
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Your words are really hash on someone that has been here on KVCD.net only helping. Then you strike on Kwag and Jorel, people that has helped others for ages. I think somethink is clear: Muaddib doesn't feel like to release the 90% of original work that now constitutes MovieStacker. But of course, you don't give a dawn, you think this guy made a mistake, used GPL code in the begining when he didn't even know how to program, Now let's make him pay :!: Who cares if he's motivation is gone if your goal is fullfiled, you're not from here anyway. Who cares if Muaddib discontinues MovieStacker, releasing sources or not? You don't use it, anyway. I understand why GPL was created and I know good things came from that. But I think you, shh and the so-called GPL supporters should understand that this is not another "Mplayer vs KISS" case. Muaddib didn't took a GPL code, did minor improvement and sold. He started a very long ago from GPL'ed code, and added so many features that the GPL'ed part became less than 10%. And still, giving away as freeware. What I see here is a massive disrespect for muaddib, for a supposed GPL defense.It's very interesting that you feel the right to have muaddib sources, regardless of GPL. I can't imagine how many hours muaddib spent working and bug-fixing his software, for you to come and say you have the right to look at his sources against his will. And yes, it's his sources. The fitCD derived work sources has been released, but it's not enough, you want it all. You are pushing Muaddib for his sources. You are making the guy feel bad, in exchange for what? If you do win, who will win in the end? So, regardless of the forum being an organization or not, regardless of what it's on GPL, if I were you, shh, I would leave this matter, just for decency. If you find someone around selling a slightly modified FitCD without source code, let me know and I'll even support you. But push a helpful person for his original work, for whatever license/reasons is wrong. |
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You bet you'll help Shh against a company selling software based on his code. And I'll support both of you. Hell (pardon my French) we'll all help and those that I name here will for sure, like Kwag, Jorel, Incredible, Glanzend, Muaddib,etc. That's our point here: the man just wanted to help for God sake! And he didn't win any money, EVER, on it! So can we all reach an agreement soon please??? Cheers |
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don’t you find it interesting that the people who back Shh, left the forum, for another forums where they can slander this forums reputation and not stick around to defend him? I tell you, they could have done so in a respectful way and no one would have deleted them. Please understand that in this forum, people are all for helping their fellow users, and yes Shh is a fellow member but for some reason as you can see everyone who was for him left to post on other forums and not sticking out for him. |
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Here are my honest thoughts on Kwag right now. Surely he is not stupid. He has built this site and it's forums. And they do contain real; usefull data. Further he has so many of you trusting him so completely you find it hard to question or disagree with him. Even when it should be obvious that you should. Doom9 alows me to help moderate some of his forum. I have alot of respect for the guy. But I am not afraid to correct or disagree with him on the rare occasion that I do. I think he would agree with that assesment. In fact in a discussion related to this verry thread I had to make a small correction. Doom9 is not perfect. He just works really hard at it. ;) All any of us on many of the forums currently quietly discussing this very thread elsewhere want to see is Kwag conceede and Muaddib and shh find a way to really work this out. |
How do I delete my account from this criminal forum?
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I will do it for you right now. Thanks, -kwag |
A Sincerity Drill :)
Excuse me, guys, I only want to share my point of view. I understand the matter is sensitive for all of us so I will just I invite you to a "sincerity exercise".
This exercise does not have anything to do with shh’s FitCD code, it merely concentrates on muaddib’s Moviestacker latest release. The drill is as follows. For every numbered sentence below, please ask yourself if it is, in your opinion, true or false. Kind of a quiz. :) Syntax: <> brackets are used to refer to the GPL license. () brackets are used to refer to points in this post. Sorry if this is confusing. :) (1) GPL is a license which developers are free to choose (they can choose others). However, if used, must be honored by software developers who do. (2) The latest version of Moviestacker was released under GPL, as can be clearly seen when installing the software. (3) As mentioned in point <3> of the included GPL, you may distribute the Program in executable form, so muaddib was playing by the book so far. (4) But in order to do (3), the very same GPL document which shows up when you install Moviestacker, requires you also do one of the following: (a) Accompany the source code. (b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to deliver the corresponding source code, or (c) Accompany it with the information you received as to the offer to distribute corresponding source code (this only applies if you received it as binary, so not in this case since it was coded my muaddib himself). (5) muaddib did (3), but did not do (4), i.e., neither (a) nor (b). (c) does not even apply, as seen above. (6) As per point <4> of the very same included GPL, you may not distribute the Program except as expressly provided under GPL. (7) As per point <4> of the very same included GPL, any attempt otherwise to distribute the Program is void, and will automatically terminate your rights under the GPL license. (8 ) muaddib distributed the software in a different form as required by the license he choose to use. So, he failed to comply with (6). (9) Since he did not comply with (6), (7) applies, so muaddib's rights under GPL were terminated. OK, that was it. How many T (true) and F (false) did you get? T+F should add up 9. :) |
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We all know about his excelent filter(s). What does it have to do with this issue :?: -kwag |
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Hey, Hello
Ok people, Please stay on topic, this is about MovieStacker, and FitCd forget everything else. Lets wait for muaddib and Shh to solve the issue. Somebody left? To bad so sad, how many post did he have again, how many people did he helped? |
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-kwag |
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( Ohh, yes. A hello and a good by :lol: ) -kwag |
MovieStacker
By request of muaddib, MovieStacker will be back online when the sources are released, or the GPL code is removed. Whatever muaddib decides to do, and when he decides to do it.
There will be no more software downloads, until this is done. The software (Moviestacker installer) has been removed from our private location. So don't ask for it :!: Thanks, -kwag |
I will not reply to a lot of nonsense that I have read here.
As kwag said, Moviestacker is now removed from download. I hope this is enough to stop this thread from going on and on. I have made a post at doom9 about all what is going on. I’m just too tired and my wife is threatening me with divorce! 8O So, I’ll not do it again here. If you want to read the thread: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...0&pagenumber=5 |
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Re: MovieStacker
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Sleep safe in the knowledge that people don't just think you are a good person. They know you are. *edit* Tell you what. Once you get things fixed I'll offer you a years free hosting as a mirror for your program binary on my home server. It's 24/7 dedicated server that is accessable as long as my ISP keeps the connection running. As I said we all will help as we can. **edit edit** Hell I bet I could probably do better than that. Let me know and I will put in a good word for you over at Doom9. ***edit edit edit*** Kwag no hard feelings. If you ever need help defending the one right the BSD affords your code I would not be opposed to helping out. The opensource community should stick together. BSD or GPL we are more alike than we are different. |
It sounds good that now there's a solution and that the tonality becomes a way of cooperation. ;-)
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Search for KISS in the news page. :wink: Quote:
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But I also think the coder must have the right to know how they want their code to be. So I feel sad being muaddib being treated like some sort of bad guy (specially in doom9 forum) because he made this mistake, started coding moviestacker from FitCD without knowing what GPL is exactly. The fact is, GPL can be quite confusing for a person that doesn't speak english very well. Looks like you came here very angry and now you are starting to understand the spirit of things. I am glad everything is going to a paceful solution. Actually, me, kwag and the others are just trying to help a friend person that has been good to us all, that's all. I never had time to say this before: welcome to our community. :wink: |
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As far as I can see it, there are two ways to release software:
1) Closed, i.e. without source, if you intend to sell it. Make source available for an enormous amount of money, protected by written contracts and non-disclosure agreements. Microsoft does this. 2) Open, i.e. public domain, if you really want to give it away for free. If it's free, who cares what the code gets used for? I did this with my filters. I actively encourage anyone interested in wading through my code to improve them. I'd rather the results were also public domain, but don't really care if they're not. I didn't write them to make money. But that's not really the issue here. I didn't read the entire thread (I'm tired after all lots of emotional hockey ;)) but have seen similar discussions many times. My perspective is that the (L)GPL is a stupid, restrictive licence. Yet, it's also pretty clear. If you base your code on GPL code, your code must also be GPL. The real question is: what does "based on" mean? How much original code must remain for the licence to apply? 75%? 50%? 25%? 1%? It's not specified, but it would seem ridiculous to me if a handful of lines of code would qualify as "based on." I'd suggest the situation is similar to copyright law: provision is made for "fair use", whereby one can quote a portion of a copyrighted work if it does not comprise a "significant amount" of the resulting work. I have no idea how much of the FitCD code is left in MovieStacker, but I imagine it wouldn't take too long for that code to be rewritten. shh says that "changing variable names" would not constitute removing the code. I'd say that's a tough one to call. Again, it's a matter of degree. I also believe that the GPL does not cover "algorithms". There's a good chance that any two programmers implementing the same algorithm in the same language will come up with similar, possibly very similar, solutions. This does not mean that one is derived from the other. I see no reason for muaddib to have to come up with new logic for his program. He simply needs to sit down and rewrite the disputed sections of the code. If it turns out very similar to the way shh implemented the same thing, I'd say that's good evidence that shh devised the optimal algorithm in the first place. As for shh wanting to inspect muaddib's rewritten code, assuming that's the path he decides to take, I think that's asking rather a lot. Closed source is closed source. If shh does a binary compare, or reverse engineers muaddib's code, and believes there are significant portions of his code left, then that's a matter for the courts. One can't simply demand another programmer release his source because one suspects some of the code is one's own. Those are my thoughts on the matter. It'll be interesting to see how this develops ;). |
Hi SansGrip,
It's just too good to see you around buddy :wink: I must say I completely agree with your opinion. I'll wait for Muaddib's answer to the subject in hands. Although English is not Muaddib's native language, and GPL is written in English (and I know there are Portuguese translations too), I think Muaddib will show that he clearly understands what is written there. He is probably doing the needed arrangements so that everyone get's what they're asking, according to GPL that is. Now, a bit off topic. Your filters: will we ever see you working on them again? Once in a while we have some problem with GripFit 2.5x. I think it's a work based on your GripFit 2.0x. Any plans for future development on this and other filters? Regards. |
Hi SansGrip :!:
Long time no see :D I agree with you on everything. I am also very happy to see a bright person, as you, to also say: "(L)GPL is a stupid, restrictive licence" Only that my thought of GPL being "stupid", is that it's even beyond stupidity (as I've said before) ;) And I'm sure the majority of all SERIOUS developers, think like that too. Thanks for coming by :!: -kwag |
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*** Post deleted *****
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@Neo-Neko,
I'm tired of your comments, and they really serve no purpose on this site. Go post whatever you want somewhere else, but not here. We have higher standards, and we don't have to listen to your childish "stupid" comments. You have been deleted from this site permanently, and anyone else from the minority of "your group" making such comments, will be deleted too. -kwag |
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I've seen several stupid posts and no one has been deleted. I guess stupidity is not an absolute concept, which does not preclude anyone from being "absolutely stupid" of course. I don't know what you mean by that "minority group", and since the post was deleted I don't know what is considered "stupid" in this forum either. I only ask that if you eventually ever consider myself in any of those two undefined categories, you be so kind to warn me first before removing my account. Cheers, |
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I was waiting (and expecting) exactly that kind of answer :D Since the "FitCD" forum was deleted some time ago, nobody can judge us for our opinions about shh (and the complete GPL topic, related to this particular issue), because "You don't know the other side of the story" But here, everyone who read some of his posts, clearly remembers the issue, and that's why we know what is considered stupid (and inmoral, as in this particular case) ;) Cheers, -kwag |
@ r6d2
hy my friend ...i never had (i never will) problems with you and like i wrote in pm you're a special person,then as a friend answer me: what do you think about this phrase posted: "I see you are still a glutton for punishment" this phrase is not for you and you never posted like this. one person posted to another person. 2 situations: what feel who is writing this and how feel who is reading this? why someone wrote this words to another member? :? |
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The minority I refer to, are the ones who have registered here, just for the purpose of posting on this thread exclusively, because they just "believe" blindfolded, on something, without even considering other things. All they said is that no matter what condition, the GPL must be followed. That's what I was refering to a "minority". -kwag |
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Or why some members on these forums are sometimes somewhere else know as morons, criminals, etc... I don't know what was posted here as it was already deleted when I got here, but as some say, it's not a question of if it's even fair. It's a question of... :idea: licensing :!: Cheers |
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Er... I didn't post "no matter what", you are right. But about the GPL thing... You know what I think since we had an interesting private conversation about the topic of this thread. According to your comment quoted above, I seem to fit better in the minority group. :wink: However, I did post a "sincerity drill" a few pages back which did not get any comments, and OTOH stupid assertions got plenty of rating. :) Then I was affraid that sincerity was less important than stupidity in this forum. But ultimately I think your point is that anyone can have an opinion here, even if it is "comply no matter what", but you rather not have it expressed stupidly. Or in other words, ask someone to comply with what he offered to comply, even if you are a minority, is not stupid itself, or is it? 8) Anyway, since the matter at hand has been settled already, and muaddib has decided to comply with GPL "no matter what", by removing Moviestacker from public access, I don't think we should dig into that any longer. Unless my account is in danger too. :? I hope muaddib has recovered his peace of mind now and that developing Moviestacker further becomes fun, challenging and interesting again for him. To bring some humor to this thread, I can tell you something about "reasonable". In my country, the Transit Law states that at every moment you must drive your vehicle at a speed which is both "reasonable and prudent according to the transit conditions". When catched speeding, I have never tried to argue with the officer if my speed was "reasonable". The radar can tell it was not within the allowed limits. :) PS: @jorel, I have a position on the written language thing you mention, but I guess it deserves a separate topic. Proper forum culture is hard to grasp for many reasons. It's a quite interesting topic. We can came to that later. |
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