DVF442 or DVF552 as TBC?
 

Hello Lordsmurf,

I tried to do my homework first before coming with this question, but I was not able to answer it myself, probably because of the loosely used term TBC and its goals.

In my country in 90s was popular to use so called "decoder" (at least this is how we called it) that was basically used to copy encrypted VHS. There are apparently still some pieces available. My amateur setup I am aiming for and assembling now slowly is (VCR with TBC -> ES10 -> ideally external TBC -> capture card Hauppauge USB Live 2). I have no intention for decoding encrypted content and want only capture homemade VHS tapes. For that reason I want to ask, if this device could do anything for me (like TBCish behavior) or has no value whatsoever. From the description itself I simply can't tell.

Would you be please so kind to take a quick look at promo material, that I managed to found in English and tell me if it is good for anything nowadays?

Specifically I can get my hands on DVF442 and DVF552:
http://www.correct.cz/import/DVF552+442manualEn.pdf

And "high end" DVD772:
http://www.correct.cz/import/DVF332+772manualEN.pdf

I don't want to waste your time but I would be grateful for at least quick reply on scale garbage vs must have. This component simply does not appear in any threads discussing the workflow.

Thank you.

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That thing is crap, doesn't work, never did. These "filter" items are all the same, and were sold worldwide in the 90s and 2000s. These mostly just messed with the video signal. It added as many errors as it removed.

Are you PAL or NTSC? [x2x]

Hello again,

thanks a lot for your swift reply, although the asked price is like 20 USD a piece, I will stay away from it then. To answer your question - I am 100% PAL. I would take this opportunity to ask 2 related questions:

Considering, that realistically I am looking at around 5 private VHS tapes tops that I want to convert, nevertheless myself, as a personal hobby project to learn something new from analog era, my intention is not to spend thousands, but rather hundreds for the workflow. I know there are easier ways with average outcomes (using DVD Recorder itself or - as apparently quite popular in Germany - to use HDMI Output of DVD Recorder to some HDMI splitter and to some capture card), but I feel I would like to experience the "proper" whole chain ending in VirtualDub.

I want to keep my life easy, so the top notch soluton (ATI AIW + Win XP etc.) is rather no no. So far I have a "recommended" compromise Hauppauge USB stick and also Panasonic ES-10 that I got for peanuts just in case.

Would you have by any chance some hints, where to look for a videorecorder with TBC in Europe, that you could recommend, that might be in a good (refurbished) shape? In other words, is there an european version of you? :laugh: At least the videorecorder itself is indeed a worthy investment for future, no matter how my project turns out.

Last piece of the flow would be the proper external TBC, but this is where it goes over the budget considering the intended goal and its extent. Top notch devices are therefore no go, but I found at least a cheap(er) alternative that was seemingly popular back then in Germany and would be only 200 EUR and this is something I would be willing to spend for fun project - Electronic Design TBC Enhancer. I did my homework and know, that you (back then) had no high expectations from the piece, but I am not looking at comparison with best grade TBCs, my question is merely - is (likely) underperforming TBC like ED-TBC still better than nothing or is it more "TBC-1000 or nothing" in which case I would save 200, invest them into the videorecorder itself and hope for the best with passthrough of ES-10..

There is an attached manual of ED-TBC I found on this forum, if it helps in any way:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...html#post58372

Thanks a lot for your time.
Kind regards

Almost all TBCs either work correctly, or don't. There isn't some grade of good to bad.

(All rules have exceptions, and there are a few. But also don't think you're in that "few" unless it is specifically known. Example: higher degree of acceptable noise patterning, or signal correction weakness -- not a typical issue.)

If you don't want to spend money, then try with just the known-good VCR, the ES10/15 for frame sync + line TBC(ish), and prayer. However, don't be surprised if some/many/most/all tapes refuse to transfer properly. The ES10/15 is not a TBC (anti-copy holes, therefore natural/legit errors also can pass), only TBC-like (aka TBC'ish).

To shore up that ES10, and make a 99% frame+line TBC(ish), get a DataVideo DVK unit. You still get drawbacks of the ES10/15, maybe some fiddly-ness from the DVK, but that is far better than nothing (or ES10/15 alone). Night-and-day compared to a crummy VCR alone (or even a decent VCR alone). BTW, the DVK is a really weak frame TBC, but combined with the ES10/15, which pre-processes, the output of both units in tandem is clean, and often results in 9 dropped frames (and therefore no audio sync issues).

The HDMI splitter for capture is really stupid, and screws up quality in major ways. May as well not even bother capturing, as it's just butchery of video.

Ideal budget workflow =
good JVC/Panasonic VCR (sans line TBC model can be fine) > ES10/15 > DVK > known good capture card

A better workflow, of course =
recommended JVC/Panasonic VCR with line TBC > external frame TBC > recommended captrue card
But yes, that has costs. (However, buy it, use it, resell it!)

Perfect timing, I woke up, read this reply, searched 10min on the forum to catch up on what DVK is and won an auction on the DVK unit that was just about to end :)

The last remaining bit of my question is still valid though, is there a reputable seller in Europe for the VCR itself? I am willing to get at least with VCR the "recommended" grade. When dealing 99% with PAL VHS, is there a particular JVC/Pan model that I should focus on? E.g. JVC HR-S9600 is still possible to get in Europe from 400 EUR, but we're talking E-bay here so again..reputable is the keyword I believe.

DataVideo DVK 100 is also ideal for ideal budget workflow? If so then my budget workflow is ready. The better workflow is still in progress. :wink2:

@Vi42per, I'll PM about the VCR.

To both of you:

Just remember that budget workflows have fail rates. It really depends on the tapes -- and you cannot gauge it by how the tape looks. Signal errors are pervasive, and visually good-looking tapes can be a nightmare, while visually awful tapes transfer "fine" (but with more quality defects than a better workflow). In fact, that's far more common than you'd think. You may save a buck/quid, but you pay for that savings in other ways -- mostly time and stress/nuisance.

DVK prices can vary wildly, from half fair value, to 2x+ fair value. It's as a bad as watching the current stock market.

@Cortez, ;)

the tbc enhancer is better than the dvk
it gives you a stable signal and can remove macrovision. it was mainly available in Germany and was never tested by lord smurf.
I have both units and would always go with the ED TBC Enhancer.

My original and main idea was that digitalize the best possible way. It would be worse if i capture the tapes in not that great quality and later maybe i couldn't redigitalize them with a better workflow. So i can do nothing just accept the recording's quality and watching the messed video.

I don't know which TBC is better, how and what skills do they have. Let discuss it between the experts.

I made no comment on that unit. :wink2:

True, I am dubious of anything from the Amiga days. But I'd somewhat defer to NJRoadfan for corroborating (or dissenting) comments on it. And switchers are generally as weak as the DVK, or weaker (though noting the unit you refer to may have switcher functions secondary to the TBC, somewhat like proc amps can be). But I have no real opinion on it at this time.

From what I see quickly, these are just as costly as other TBCs. Usually not at all budget priced, and equally hard to find.

Something else I hope to one day test. :)

... but PAL gear can be hard to acquire here. :(

You must remember that the DVK needs the ES10/15 in front. The TBC is too weak to go it alone. The pair makes the 99% TBC(ish), not either alone. The ES10/15 alone can work, sometimes, maybe. But the DVK alone rarely does. It's mostly to shore up weaknesses in the ES10/15. Before I researched that, I'd really written off the DVK as being useful at all. But I kept testing it, and found that combo worked nicely.

I remember. Do we talking about this combo? :)
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/atta...1&d=1591949726

Yep. :congrats:

It's a external TBC like the Datavideo-1000 or the AVT-8710. Released at about 1996.

You're not making it easier. I took the DVK because there was an opportunity, but I am wondering if I am missing out on some "gem" by not taking the ED-TBC. :smack:

Lordsmurf, There are some on Ebay here. What, in your opinion, is reasonable, price-wise?

Thanks, Al