High frequency noise from JVC SR-V101US audio output?
 

I purchased a deck (JVC SR-V101US) from Lordsmurf as part of a workflow and received it last week. I demoed it and discovered its RCA audio outputs are showing high-frequency noise through my television, my hi-fi systems, and my capture system, and with 8 different VHS tapes. The noise only appears when the audio output circuit is engaged by the deck.

I e-mailed Lordsmurf audio samples from the JVC SR-V101US and my Panasonic PV-8451 for comparison. My PV-8451 does not display this audio issue. Not only is there a noise issue with the JVC unit, but the general audio quality seems poor as the audio is missing a lot of high frequencies since my Panasonic unit sounds much better when playing the same media. Maybe both issues are related?

After listening to the two samples I quickly grabbed from the decks (links below), Lordsmurf replied by e-mail and indicated that "it's not the deck" and that I'll need to post on the forum.

Although the audio is lossy, the noise is so prominent in the JVC video I've linked that I'm not sure it even matters to have lossless audio captured. If I'm wrong about this, let me know and I'll capture lossless files for spectrum analysis.

JVC SR-V101US (noisy unit from Lordsmurf) Sample - https://youtu.be/5aLjuhX-JRU
Panasonic PV-8451 (my own unit with no noise) Sample - https://youtu.be/omoYduH6mW8

Here's what I've tried to solve this issue:

(1) Removing any potential ground loops by lifting the AC ground, trying different electrical circuits, running it off of an isolated power supply, and running it off of a DC-to-AC inverter UPS; no change.

(2) Moving the unit into different physically locations to check for potential RF interference; no change.

(3) Checking user manual for features/functions I may have missed; no change.

(4) Verifying RCA cable quality; no change.

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I'm not sure what's wrong, but I've run into issues like this in the past with some of my old audio gear. Replacing all PCB-mounted electrolytic capacitors has solved audio circuit noise issues in the past. Hoping that's not needed in this case.

Looking for input as to what the issue is believed to be. Maybe I'm missing something simple... ?

Thank you for your time.

I think this is an issue of your exact source tapes, VHS audio understandings, and VCR output expectations.

In the samples on Youtube, I hear two things:
- Panasonic is too loud, audio is being distorted.
- JVC has muffle and whine, an infamous issue with low-quality VHS linear (non-HiFi) tracks on JVC decks.

You need to re-test with cleaner sources. Something retail, and HiFi.

Which FYI, I did.
- Retail with HiFi, and mono.
- Homemade with HiFi, good mono, and not-great mono.
And it passes those tests, with expected results. In fact, that exact deck you have performed above average.

I wanted you to post about this here, as I know others in the forum have more detailed info on why this happens. Many here have experienced this exact issue, for decades. It's not the fault of VHS, or JVC, etc -- it's just a combination of factors that results in what you hear.

It's not uncommon to capture a tape twice, using different VCRs: once for best audio, once for best video, and the re-merge later in post-capture (anything from VirtualDub to Premiere, even Avisynth).

Youtube is also adding compression noise, so it's hard to make further comments.

Thank you for the reply, LS!

I found an article another user who reported the identical high-frequency audio issue with the JVC V101US. His post (below) contains a link to a WAV file whose high-frequency noise is identical to what is heard in my sample video posted above for the JVC V101US.

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vcr-...s-buzzing.html

I have confirmed on my end:

-retail media with hi-fi audio (with mono audio selected on OSD) exhibits high frequency buzzing on the V101US audio output.
-all of my non-hi-fi (mono) consumer media (with mono audio selected in OSD) exhibit an identical high frequency buzzing on the V101US audio output.
-retail media with hi-fi audio (with hi-fi audio selected on the OSD) does not exhibit high-frequency buzzing on the V101US audio output.

To confirm - selecting 'hi-fi' on the OSD when playing hi-fi-audio-containing media results in no observed high-frequency noise. Selecting 'mono' on the OSD when playing hi-fi-audio-containing media, or consumer mono media results in high-frequency audio noise.

Here are links to audio samples. Noise at the beginning, audio at the end:

Audio captured when 'hi-fi' selected on OSD displaying minor and acceptable noise: https://www.mediafire.com/file/yj0kp...Hi-Fi.wav/file

Audio captured when 'mono' selected on OSD, showing high-frequency and unacceptable noise: https://www.mediafire.com/file/sfoix.../Mono.wav/file

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Based on the hours of testing on my end, and the fact that another user has the exact same issue with the identical high-frequency noise documented in their audio sample -- the most likely explanation to me is that this is a hardware issue -- either inherent to the design itself, or related to some sort of component aging. Absent other evidence, it's hard for me to conclude otherwise. This doesn't happen on my other two decks when playing the same hi-fi or mono media (consumer or retail).

Since I will never be processing VHS media with hi-fi audio tracks, this deck's audio output performs far too poorly for my digital conversion workflow purposes. Yes, you can pull audio and video from two different decks, but it was not my intention to double the workload when I can just buy a deck that doesn't have an issue that renders the audio unlistenable. Really too bad, since the video quality is great on this deck!! :D

If there are any suggestions on how to fix this, or maybe some other things that I and the other user documenting the same issue may have simply overlooked, please let me know. Thank you.

Interesting, I also have similar issues with linear audio on two related late-model JVCs. Both on the XVS20 as noted and the exact same on a DR-MX1. Both use the same mech and a similar all-in-one video/audio ic (XVS20 a slightly older revision of it, MX1 exact same ic name). In my case it's not quite as bad though, so I don't know for sure it's the same issue, could also be down to PAL vs NTSC and different deck setup (since mine are both combos).

Another separate thing I have encountered the previous generation JVCs, like my HR-S8600 is that you can get a high-frequency whine if the ground connection to the vcr mechanism is a bit bad. That issue very easy to test though, just use a screwdriver or some other metal thing to connect between chassis and tuner and see if it goes away. In that case there was whine on all hi-fi too though from what I remember.

As for audio quality otherwise being a bit poor on JVCs vs other decks, it can come down to audio head alignment, at least on the previous generation models, as documented here, though adjusting it is very finicky so it's something to be careful about if trying. Misalignment on it's own shouldn't cause buzzing on linear audio though, just muffled/weak audio.

The original is a linear audio recording so HiFi is irrelevent here. There are two issues here as Hodgey alluded to.

1. The audio control head in the JVC is obviously misaligned to the camera tape's recorded pattern. This doesnt necessarily mean the JVC head is misaligned to standard. A skilled transfer technician would custom align the JVC's audio head to the pattern on the camera tape, restoring all that lost treble. Since your Pana seems already fairly well aligned to this tape, there seems no problem transferring this tape.

It may be your original camera tape is itself misaligned, and your Pana VCR just happens to be misaligned in exactly the same way. Or perhaps the JVC is misaligned from standard. But to expect all linear audio tracks to play perfectly aligned is unrealistic. Ideally audio azimuth would be checked and adjusted on each and every tape played, just like people used to adjust picture tracking. But for most people this is too technical.

2. The JVC is outputting what I consider unacceptable electronic noise which is not part of the original recording. The Pana seems much quieter, emitting only a moderate hiss, which is normal. It's hard to be definitive though as your camera recording is quite loud and would be masking other noise only audible on a quieter recording. Unfortunately some later decks, even quite sophisticated ones, did have noisy linear audio, which is a shame. I dont know if this is normal for that JVC model or if there is a fault in your particular unit.

It could well possibly be some filter capacitors in the linear audio pre-amp, I will look up your model's service manual and tel you where they are if you are handy in replacing electronic components.

I worked as an electronics repair tech for 3 years and have a full rework setup at home, so please send them over! Should Lordsmurf agree that I should take a crack at swapping the caps, I will. Thanks for the offer.

Thanks for the reply!

I have a couple questions and comments for you:

The reason I mention hi-fi in my reply to Lordsmurf is that it seems that when 'hi-fi' is selected on the OSD when playing hi-fi-audio-containing media, the high-frequency noise goes away. It's only when 'norm' is selected that it appears. This is what leads me to believe it's the linear audio circuit that's causing the issue. Since pretty much all of the tapes that I will be digitizing only have linear audio, the hi-fi mode will never be used, and thus the noise will always be present. If my understanding is incorrect, please correct me.

1. How can you confirm the audio head is misaligned to the tape's recorded pattern? I'm wondering if the audio artifact that you're hearing could be the result of the same issue that might be causing the buzzing, rather than a result of some misalignment? For example, poor circuit design, or perhaps aging circuit components? I should also say that all of my tapes (multiple manufacturers over the course of many years) all exhibit this same issue on the JVC with the high-frequency buzzing, and the missing audio high frequencies. This issue does not exist with any of my tapes on my Panasonic unit. The missing high frequencies is something that I can understand and accept as a quirk of the JVC. The high-frequency noise, however.. no good!

2. If you check my second post in this thread, I added some audio clips showing the output when 'hi-fi' and 'norm' are selected on the JVC unit's OSD. Another user reported the same issue, and with the same noise pattern recorded. I linked to that post as well. Take a peek at those if you're interested! I also do not know if this is a fault of my particular unit, or if it's common in the design. If it's common in the design, it is my opinion that this unit is not suitable for a digitizing workflow if the user intends to capture the linear audio with this same unit. There is just too much noise.

Thanks for the reply.

Interesting to hear this same issue is exhibited on other JVC units. I wonder if this truly is a design issue, or if it's a design issue coupled with some sort of aging component issue like latreche34 has alluded to as a possibility.

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be a simple grounding issue - too bad :depressed:

Since this unit came from Lordsmurf, I'm going to assume there isn't a head alignment issue so I won't mess with that unless he recommends otherwise.


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I appreciate the replies everyone. Keep em coming! :D

Do this test to rule out electronic component issue, Clean the stationary audio head, Record a one minute clean audio signal freferably dialog followed by a minute of silence and play it back with the option normal only for linear audio, capture it and post a sample here. If the file came out clean with a little bit of hiss then it is going to be an alignement issue, if it plays with the same symtoms then it's an electronic components issue.

If I had your tape with me I could confirm it by aligning the JVC's A/C head to the tape. But we have your sample. Below are screenshots of the spectrums of the JVC and then the Pana playback.

In the JVC shot (12) notice the dark band between 4 and 5 kHz. That is a classic comb filtering null due in this case to azimuth error. The audio is lost and cant be recovered in post.
Notice too how after the vertical blue line, the camera tape's pause point, the band briefly heads downward, the error becoming momentarily worse, and another null briefly appears at about double the lower null's frequency. The dip represents the azimuth error becoming even worse until the tape angle stabilises. Then the band briefly rises, meaning a less severe error, then it settles down to the error angle before the tape was paused.

But also, notice that in the JVC shot, horizontal orange bands extend right up to almost 15 kHz. VHS linear audio wasnt capable of recording frequencies that high. Around 10 kHz would be max. So those higher noise bands cant have been in your camera recording. They have to be from the JVC playback.

Your Pana spectrum (13) contains no nulls (blue bands of silence). Notice the Pana playback is strong up to about 8 kHz, not too bad for linear playback, although with a little azimuth fine tuning, maybe a little more could be extracted from the camera audio. Notice there is no visible noise above about 8 kHz meaning the Pana linear audio playback is a lot quieter than the JVC in those bands, regardless of azimuth.

Again perhaps this noise in the JVC is typical of that model. Perhaps manufacturers of later HiFi VCR's assumed most consumers would be recording and playing programs with HiFi audio and so cut a few corners in the linear audio playback design. That doesnt help people like yourself with older or camcorder recordings with only linear audio. I've transferred many camcorder tapes, both VHS and Beta, with only linear audio. I would never tolerate such a poor, noisy playback such as your JVC example.

That's interesting, the extra noise bands and "null" band on the spectrum looks suspiciously similar to what you see in the spectrum I posted in the thread I linked about my XVS20. Maybe there is something that's prone to failing on these models?

I can try to adjust the head on My XVS20 or MX1 and see, may help with frequency response, though I don't think that's the root cause of the extra high-frequency noise.

That's why I suspected bad capacitors, it sounds like a pulse leakage from neighboring chips that should have been filtered out but it didn't. If the OP can record an audio sample and play it back as I requested above we can confirm this. We can also confirm if it's a missalignement problem since miss algned VCR's playabck their own recordings without any problem.

I didnt bother to request a fresh recording to the linear track as I feel there is proof enough in the JVC playback null that the cause is azimuth error. Listen to the playback and correlate it to the spectral screenshot. Right after the camera tape is unpaused, the null's frequency wanders (audibly and visually). I strongly suspect the cause is tape wander (and therefore azimuth wander baked into the tape at that point) before the tape stabilises in the guides. If the other noise added by the JVC was not there, the effect would be even more noticeable. I've heard the "baked in" drift effect many times in VHS and Beta camcorders at pause points, as well as on countless audio cassettes. I cant think of any other cause. Can you?

I'm not convinced any caps are at fault here.

However, just to cover all our bases:

An unfortunate reality of shipping older hardware, that has capacitors, is that temperature and elevation changes can affect the caps. You're about 2000 miles (3000 km) from me, in a far colder and higher area. If it truly is caps related, it may be changing the behavior of the caps. Even more damning, there's also a chance it'd behave perfectly if I had it here again. Some caps can be "bad", yet still not bad.

Again, none of this is likely. Just covering all possibilities.

JVC is a mostly caps-free unit, and didn't use the cheapy Chinese caps that caused issues in Panasonics.

The more likely issue is power related. Are you on a UPS?

Then again, let's discuss alignment. Yes, I realign all decks. That's probably one of the most time-consuming PITA aspects of refurb'ing decks. Everything from usage to gravity weighs on alignment, and causes misalignment. It's about 15-25 years since any of these decks were new, and all of them need alignment tweaks.

Shippers suck. Although I label everything as FRAGILE and DO NOT DROP, then truth is they toss packages around. The guides are held by here springs, and tossing the box around too much can cause re-misalignment issues. To date, this has only happened once. Maybe you're the second? I have a JVC realignment post somewhere in this forum, from about 2-3 years ago, look for it. Take photos before starting. Dremel yourself a flathead screwdriver. Then carefully tweak the posts. But after you've tried other things suggested in the thread, before replacing caps.

We know the deck works, that's the good part.

A tape recorded on a misaligned VCR can exhibit the same behavior, Just because it played okay on a Panasonic doesn't make it a perfect tape, A recording test is part of a proper troubleshooting and cannot be skipped.

. I agree that the main issue for the OP here is the noises the JVC unit appears to be adding to the playback. To test or measure that properly I would ideally use a blank tape. But in the absence of a video signal the VCR will probably mute the audio output. Yes a new recording could be made but I would use a section of audio silence at the beginning or end of a commercially prerecorded tape. If the same bands of audio noise remain regardless of the tape played, the noise has to be from the VCR playback. Unfortunately the audio on the OP's upload is quite loud. This probably masks a lot of any noise added by the JVC VCR. In recordings with truly quiet sections any noise contribution from the VCR will be much more of a problem to the listener.

Take a look at this post where I link two sample audio files:

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...html#post80284

I recorded silence at the start of a retail tape, followed by some audio. Hope this works in the meantime until I can capture a new file following your instructions.

I'm also surprised people haven't commented on the fact that another user reported the exact same issue and linked a WAV file with the exact same noise. I linked to that user's post in the one above as well.

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Thank you everyone for your replies. I am reviewing them and I'll try determine the path forward shortly.

The silent sample sounds about right to me for non Dolby linear audio, Again without new recording and recapture we don't know exactly the performance of the linear audio of that VCR, It comes down to this, If capturing linear audio is very importnat you should get one of those VCR's that has Dolby decoder, Most comercial pre-recorded tapes used Dolby on the linear track, playing back without Dolby decoding results in a high pitched hiss (this is part of Dolby specifications to boost the highs during encoding).

You can miss-align the VCR to get better output for this tape but trust me you will be doing it for each tape if perfection is what you are after, there isn't one size fits all for linear audio, I've been there before.

Here is the suspect components I was talking about earlier if it is an electronic issue, The caps are C2008, C2011 and C2012, they are all 4.7uF/50V:

Teefer, comparing the noise performance of the JVC's HiFi playback to its linear is not really a fair test. The linear should normally be much noisier. Your Pana seems to have reasonable linear playback so why not use that as your reference playback as you did with the camcorder tape? I mean using the retail tape's silence and then music as your source tape, all linear of course.

Will do! Just out and about but will report back shortly!

Hello again. Here is the link to the file I have recorded, as requested:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/vfz5j...pture.wav/file

Mono source recorded to new VHS tape in EP mode using the JVC SR-V101US.

Captured as mono-to-stereo (mono channel recorded on L and R channel) by playing back through the JVC SR-V101US using the 'mono' mode as selected on deck OSD (linear audio).

I used a dynamic dialogue sample for the source material and set the level to prevent clipping and also get a reasonable signal level.

First 1.5 sec: capture prior to pressing play on deck
Next 10 sec: VHS playing prior to the audio recording beginning
Next 68 sec: VHS playing recorded dialogue
Next 60 sec: VHS playing after the audio recording ended

I've powered the unit using different circuits, behind an isolation transformer and using a DC-to-AC inverted UPS. I've tried to move the unit to check for RF interference - nothing changes it.

Do you have any comments on the extreme similarity to another user's issue that I linked in my first reply to you? His audio sample contains noise that is essentially identical to what I'm experiencing.

Thanks for this information. I just posted the audio sample a couple of posts back so have a peek at that.

To play back linear audio on consumer-recorded tapes (the majority of what I'll be doing), does it still make sense to seek out a VCR with a Dolby encoder? I wouldn't think so..?

Appreciate the schematic and the component info. I'll see where I go with this issue and let you know if I do end up replacing the caps. :D

Thanks for the new audio sample. Are you sure this is linear audio recorded in EP? The high frequency response is way too good for LP or EP, and almost too good for SP. But whatever the format, the humming/ buzzing noises are unacceptable. If linear audio, we should hear the tape hiss but not those many tones/harmonics (I counted 27). You might try recording the same sample voice onto your Pana VCR as a comparison. Or even just a playback of this JVC recording on the Pana, event though there will be an azimuth error.

Screenshot attached of the spectral display. The white specks representing tape hiss are to be expected. The many horizontal lines shouldnt be there and on a camcorder recorded tape (linear audio) they would represent a very unusual fault.

Thanks for the reply.

I made a typographical error! It is recorded in SP. I will modify my post to reflect that typo once the edit button becomes available. I think there's some sort of timer that restricts the edit. I can only confirm it was played back using the 'norm' setting on the OSD. To me, that means the linear audio track is being played back, and it's the only OSD setting that produces this buzzing. It's also the only OSD setting available when playing back all of the tapes in my 80s/90s archive.

I will record the same sample using Panasonic and get back to you.

Here is a sample from my VCR HR-S7600AM from a home recorded tape on an unknown VCR in EP, Note that I boosted the gain slightly to make the noise more apparent, So as you can hear it sounds identical to what your VCR produced on it's own.

I don't know if this is due to filtration capacitors failure in the linear audio playback preamp or JVC stopped caring about linear audio quality at a certain point in the VHS era, I remember hearing the same buzz from CRT TV's from the speaker in the quite passages so it's clearly a blanking pulses noise leakage, I will eventually recap the linear audio section on my VCR's but not in the near future as it is not really important to me.

So even if you proceed with messing the alignment of your VCR's audio head it will not fix the noise. And yes a VCR with Dolby circuit is more devoted to linear audio quality than a VCR who's main focus is Hi-Fi audio.

I'm hearing (and seeing on the spectrum) far less odd noise/interference in that clip compared to the SR-V101US clips and my XVS20 clips.

The same type of noise is still audible and its level is high enough to render the recorded audio unacceptable in my opinion.

Yes in the higher frequencies which an EP linear audio recording cannot make, the many noise bands are added by the playback deck. They will not be in the original recording.

Notice too the loss of (orange coloured) speech audio centred around 3.5 kHz. In that same area, notice how the added noise bands are now more visible (and audible) because there is no program to mask them. Probably caused by an azimuth misalignment in playback.

Both problems, the added noise and the loss of recorded signal, have contributed to weakened signal to noise ratio, as in your camcorder example.
Fixing one problem will help. Fixing both is best.

Spectrum stills are not nearly as good as seeing them as a video clip in real time with the synchronised audio. I found out Win 10 allows mp4 video recording of what's on the PC screen. Here's an example. It's the linear audio of a VHS tape recorded off TV in '93.

I tried to highlight the two main problems we've been discussing here in the OP's JVC playback example:

1. Azimuth misalignment. Lost highs.

Near the beginning of the clip I deliberately misalign the audio head's angle and then return it to aligned. You can hear and see the effect together.

2. Noisy VCR audio playback.

At the end I deliberately pause the tape by pulling the pinch roller away from the tape. For a brief second you can see and hear only the VCR's own background noise. Without the program audio from the tape masking it, the horizontal lines - and the other random noise (blue specks) - are clearer. In an amateur camcorder recording with quiet voices, this noise from the VCR playback could totally mask those quiet voices.

The short dark section right at the end is after the VCR muted the audio when it sensed no tape movement.

Please note there is a few seconds' delay at the beginning of the video before I manage to play the file in the analyzer.

I was testing a little bit on my XVS20 today, first tested replacing the 47uf decoupling capacitor for the audio VCC (power input) on the video/audio IC. Also put in a 0.1 uf one in parallel, which seems to not be installed by default on JVCs for some reason even though there is a spot for one and it's typically what you see on other vcc inputs including the audio one on other vcrs. (I could not however find a ceramic one with the right size so ended up sticking in a through-hold film one instead which may not be ideal.) It did not seem to help however.

Adjusting the head azimuth a tad didn't seem to reduce it any either, it just makes it more/less muffled (could maybe help a little if it's off to give more audio volume compared to noise though but I didn't fine-tune it).

Last thing I discovered was that on my unit, ejecting the DVD drive seemed to also produce a low frequency tone on the linear audio when the dvd drive motor was running (no impact on hi-fi audio), even though as far as I could tell the motor power from it is quite separated from the video/audio ic power line.

Will do some more testing.

(Also I'm sure I saw a thread here recently on similar issues on a related JVC, where turning off the lcd display helped a little, but can't find it right now. Couldn't seem to turn it off on mine, and just cycling through the display modes on it had no impact.)

EDIT: Old thread with sample from a SR-V10U, sounds like same type of noise noise on the playback sample.

Also recently worked on an old JVC HR-S5800E (1991 I think), on that one bad power supply caps caused high frequency whine on linear audio, however it sounded different so I doubt that's the same issue.

I need to vent here. Certain topics are starting to irritate me these days. This is one of them. We're all getting spoiled rotten video-wise.

The hunt for a single VHS device to do everything perfectly is a fool's errand. Why else do you think us serious folks have 2+ decks? It's not for funsies. We understand that tapes are all unique, due to a wide variation in recording gear/methods. And that necessitates having multiple decks to content with this reality.

You want a deck that cooperates with the widest array of your sources. Yes, most times, that means a JVC S-VHS VCR with line TBC. But sometimes not. It really depends on your collection. Modes, audio, signal stability, etc. When JVC S-VHS is known to be weaker at certain factors, like mono/linear audio, you may need to look to Panasonic S-VHS with line/field TBC. (And if that doesn't work, it gets ugly fast, you'll make compromises using non-SVHS/TBC gear.)

Perspective is also needed. This is two-fold:

(1) I'm not a person that utters the phrase "good enough", because it's almost always used as an excuse for crappy quality. Not just video, but anything -- mopping the floor, painting the house, etc. But there is a point of diminishing returns. Most people are actually fine with slightly degraded audio -- a fact we've all known for ages (MP3, telephones, etc). Not so much with video, visual errors are way more distracting. So this leads into the next issue...

(2) Your VHS home camcorder was a piece of crap. How do I know this? Because they all were. The video sucks, the audio sucks. The end. In general, the video was pretty ghastly, between white balance issues and exposure (and camera shake), made worse by the limitations of VHS (chroma, grain, etc). But the audio was way worse, nothing was ever accurate to the ambiance/music/vocals of the recording setting. The sample audio, in this thread, at the Youtube links, were both lousy. The OP was essentially asking which sucked less. It's sort of like comparing dog poop to cat poop. But it's poop! So trying to squeeze out audio perfection from a media that was never perfect is somewhat silly.

Okay, fine, but you really want to eek out every drop of audio quality off the tape. I'm fine with that. I try too!

However, again, spoiled. Sometimes seeking conversion perfection doesn't come from a single deck. The fix here is easy: capture JVC for video, capture another VCR for audio. Edit back together. Done! (In fact, that may be the cheapest method, using quality gear. A refurb/recapped Panasonic AG1980 will easily cost more than this JVC SR-V101 and a plain VHS VCR that plays the audio well. Also know that the Panasonic isn't better than JVC, just different. There's a good chance that it plays the video worse, so you'd still be capturing JVC video with Panasonic audio.)

But again, how much do you really notice hiss and noise when the original audio was distorted, flat, and tinny? Ideally, yes, do what you can to make it not-terrible.

Alright, I feel better now. Needed saying. :)

I agree, That's why I never bothered messing with linear audio for a VCR, It is what it is. I usually do take care of my VCR's in terms of maintenance and cleaning or repair if there is a problem, But I don't go to the trouble of re-aligning its transport to make one tape happy.

This! I'm perfectly able to adjust a transport but I won't for the sake of individual tapes providing the quality is 'good enough'. That is just silly.

When I come across tapes with issues, those are set aside for my special decks, including a JVC S-VHS deck (ironically, a SR-V101) that I have for realignment needs. That deck hasn't been properly aligned in years, I just tweak it to match trouble tapes. I do this for work, and for myself.

For audio issues, it's the two-capture method above.

I don't just cram it through a setup, and whatever it spits out is what I accept. That's dipping into low-quality work, no better than the likes of LegacyBox or other low-end careless shops. (If the person doesn't want to pay for special work, that's different. At least the option is there. It's not hidden from them, they're not lied to that it's "not possible to fix".)

You do need to take some care in transfers. My point is that no single perfect VCR exists. And sometimes that means multi-capturing with multiple decks.

We're getting spoiled by HDTVs that play multiple formats, all from a single tiny stick. That's great and all, but it's not videotapes.

I’ve been holding back out of respect for Lordsmurf’s medical condition, but it’s time that the facts are laid out here since I’m getting zero traction by e-mail over the last 10 weeks. The last post by Lordsmurf makes it clear (in my opinion) that he is not interested in resolving this issue. I paid him back in June 2021 for a workflow and he isn’t resolving a very basic situation for me here. The deck he provided has an overly noisy linear audio circuit. So just replace it or refund me? What’s the big deal? It’s been over 6 months now since I sent the money.

It’s clear that Lordsmurf is not going to advocate for my best interests and that he would rather voice his annoyance because the samples I provided don't meet his standards. Anyone familiar with audio can pick out the noise profile in an instant. High frequency noise in any recording is obvious, especially by comparison. Normally a seller would take the unit back and do the testing themselves, but I know Lordsmurf hasn't been in great health so I have done a lot of the work with the guys on the forum (thank you everyone :salute:). Maybe my samples don't meet Lordsmurf's personal standard, but I've played them for some of the people I work with at the studio and they all agree the noise is as clear as day.

As such, I need to step up and advocate for myself. I’ve spent more than enough time collecting samples, testing tapes and working with the very generous people on this forum to try to diagnose the linear audio circuit issue with this JVC deck. I have been provided no solution by the seller (Lordsmurf), so I need to bring forward the evidence on the matter.

Feel free to read this whole thread from the beginning, but here is a link to the audio sample I recorded on the JVC deck Lordsmurf supplied that shows the unacceptable noise. This noise does not occur with any of my other junker decks, with any source. This is a deck-specific issue.
Specific capture details can also be seen in my Post #19 in this thread. Please note this was recorded in SP mode (not EP as I erroneously stated, but cannot edit) and played back on the same deck that recorded it. All sources playing linear audio on this JVC deck show this noise.

Let’s stop saying this audio issue is source-specific. The deck is not fine. These claims are not supported by the evidence. This is a deflection from the obvious fact that there is unique and obvious noise in the JVC linear audio circuit. I've tested all types of sources and they have the exact same noise profile on this JVC deck. Here’s all of the testing I’ve done with absolutely no change in the noise profile:

• Tested my home videos, others’ home videos, new clean audio I have recorded through my digital mixer, and I’ve tested brand new retail media from two different eras.
• Played back audio through two hi-fi systems and in my critical listening room.
• Powered the unit off of a DC-to-AC UPS, and through an isolation transformer to rule out interference.
• Powered the unit off of a DC-to-AC UPS, and through an isolation transformer in a completely different geographical location to rule out interference.
• Compared tested samples for this JVC unit to my junker Panasonic units. Panasonic units do not display this persistent linear audio noise.
• Recorded linear audio on JVC unit, played back on the same unit to rule out azimuth error. Noise persists. When the linear audio on these tapes is played back on my Panasonic junker decks, the noise is not present.

The linear circuit noise is identical and persistent between all of my tests on the JVC unit and none of my other junker decks display this noise in their linear audio circuits. This is electrical noise that is specific to the JVC’s linear audio circuit. I've also linked this thread from another user that reported the identical noise from their machine. Want to listen? Download the clip in his first post. He concluded that the cause was from electrical interference, but I’ve powered my JVC deck off of a DC-to-AC UPS, and in a completely separate location from my studio. Why is no one commenting on this other user’s audio clip? There is literally another user with the same deck who posted an audio sample whose noise profile is identical to mine, and states that it only occurs with linear audio (as does mine). This surely is no coincidence. This user concluded it was interference causing his issue, but after doing some detailed testing with my UPS, isolation transformer, and testing in two different geographical locations with no change in the noise profile, it can be concluded that radio or ground loop interference is not causing this issue. After evaluating the preponderance of the evidence, it is most reasonable to conclude that the issue is the deck.
Since it’s now been over 6 months since I paid Lordsmurf, it’s time for me to lay out some of the facts:

• I paid Lordsmurf for a workflow (deck, TBC and capture card) on June 9, 2021 and it didn’t ship until September 12, 2021.
• I received it October 9, 2021 and noted the linear circuit noise issue. I contacted Lordsmurf immediately and he said “that is not the deck” with regards to the noise issue. He told me to go to the forums to resolve this. Out of respect for his health, I did.
• I spent a number of days working with some of the users on the forum (thank you everyone) who agreed that the noise level is unacceptable. I did not have any final resolution on the matter and still had a noisy deck.
• I contacted Lordsmurf again on October 25th requesting a replacement unit. He said he needs to test a new unit and it takes time. I was patient, once again out of respect for health.
• I contacted Lordsmurf again on November 8th and he said he does not have a deck ready and isn’t done testing. I was patient, once again out of respect for health.
• I contacted Lordsmurf again on November 11th and Lordsmurf indicated that the original deck ‘tested perfect’. He asked me to not be pushy and that he “can’t take time to worthlessly communicate” with me when I ask for updates.
• I contacted Lordsmurf again on December 16th (over a month later now) to check on the status of a deck. It’s not clear what he intends to do to resolve this, but he says he’s burned out on VCR refurb and that he will send a buyer my way for the deck. Why do I need a buyer for my deck? Why can’t this be resolved by the seller?

This isn’t a matter of opinion – this is a matter of fact. Every time linear audio is played back on the JVC deck that Lordsmurf supplied, the same noise profile appears – even with brand new retail tapes – and this does not occur with either of my other two junker decks. And to top this off, we have evidence from another user reporting the exact same issue (in the thread I linked above).

I’ve waited since June for my workflow, and since October 9th for Lordsmurf to resolve this. I believe I’ve been more than patient. Health conditions or not, a seller should actually resolve the issues their customers have, especially when there is clear evidence of the JVC deck having a noisy linear audio circuit. Responding to e-mails without any plans to correct the issue or supply the user with a solution isn’t helpful. If Lordsmurf is too busy to work on a solution, I completely understand. Just take the unit back and refund the money if the deck can’t be replaced. It’s that simple.

How much longer do I need to float around in limbo? It’s been over 6 months since I paid for the unit and I have spent a lot of time trying to diagnose this issue without any resolution. I would like it replaced or the purchase refunded. That's all I've been asking for.

While I still think that LS is busy or going through health problems, what would be a fair resolution in my opinion (and I'm not claiming to be a legal expert) is to try to repair the deck with the seller's permission since you said you have some experience repairing electronics and you both agree on a partial refund, If that doesn't work, send the deck to a reputable repair facility after the seller agrees to cover the expenses, Again this is just a personal opinion and that's what I would do exactly if I was a seller. Hope you guys come to an agreement.

That is provided someone happens to know how to actually fix the issue. Given that we have two users here experiencing the exact same thing I'm experiencing the same noise, and I'm experiencing the exact same problem on two related PAL decks (HR-xVS20, and DR-mx1) from around the same time with very similar (possibly same) ICs and mech I suspect there is some sort of design flaw with these models here (worst case scenario is that the fault is in the main video/audio IC itself). It's clearly more than just not entirely optimal linear audio, if it was that it wouldn't have been a big issue. Like, my LG combo and samsung decks from around the same time doesn't show this sort of noise, and those are not built to a high standard or anything.

Where I have seen a similar symptom is on two slightly older samsung decks, and on my old sony SL-C5 betamax. On the beta one adjusting the playback eq/deemphasis trimmer helped pretty significantly, though that's not something that's adjustable oni newer decks (there may be some chip register settings but nothing accessible). The other slight clue is the user in that an other thread finding that front display setting had some impact on a JVC SVHS (can't find the thread right now'). It does not seem like the same sort of distortion that I've seen from power supply ripple, but can't say for sure, I have an example recording of that from another deck but not at home right now so can't post that yet.

If you do end up sending it to a repair person and they manage to figure out what the issue is I am interested to know what the fault is.

I'm surprised after the schooling on buying 'unknown units from eBay', which realistically you would have probably had the same level of support from an eBay seller, but at least wouldn't have spent as much.

It's not a small chunk of change here, let's hope you get a resolution soon. :salute:
It's Christmas at the moment etc, and my opinion is to give everybody a few days to 'do the right thing' but the fact it appears that this unit is being lined up for another buyer probably raises a few questions.

There are loads of pages on 'the web' about this being a known issue with JVC units from this era as far as I can see.

Let's just hope the right resolution is reached soon. I'm certain it will.

You never replied to my last email.

When dealing with linear audio tapes, you have some options:
- capture video with JVC, capture audio with whatever deck is "playing nice" (ie, your Panasonic deck)
- capture video+audio with Panasonic AG-1980P, but realize it's not a magic fix-all, still failures with either video or audio
- capture with JVC, just accept the audio quality hit
- don't capture, put tapes back in closet

The fact that I (and family) had serious health issues this year (which delayed some shipments, and FYI not COVID) is beside the point here. That has nothing to do with the audio issues.

Your Youtube-butchered audio samples are not useful here. If you want to show case problems, it needs to be human speech, in the captured WAV, not the mic recording ambient sounds. There are ways to recover audio quality. Not just that, but restore it better than original. Hiss is easy to remove, muffled values can be easy to restore. Unlike video, audio loss is not uncorrectable. (BTW: When you say things like "critical listening room", you come across as one of those unreasonable self-described "audiophiles". I'm not playing the nth % game, where a slight difference in tonal quality is deemed "unacceptable".)

If you think you can fix the audio issue, do so. Share your findings here on the forum.

If you want to pay for somebody else to tinker with it, that's on you. And at that point, I won't be able to vouch for the deck anymore, and will not be able to send a buyer your way.

Sometimes JVC audio noise can be corrected in guide realign. Although realign is part of my refurb process, sometimes it can get slip in shipping, the box tossed around too much. And coincidentally the SR-V101 is one of the easiest decks to do this with. The left guide needs the tweak, usually counterclockwise by as much as a full half turn. The problem comes with non-SP tapes, and having to compensate with a right guide tweak. Non-SP tapes showcase audio issues more.

Power issues can be a problem with your grid. When I moved to the TVA grid about 15 years ago, my DataVideo TBCs became noise makers, and I had to switch to all Cypress. When I left TVA, all of the DataVideos were fine again. It wasn't my house, or office, or city, but the whole grid was that way. Consumer UPS with AVR did not clean it enough. BTW, TVA is no longer like that, DataVideo confirmed to work fine there in recent year.

You want a problem "fixed' that is likely inherent, and is in fact something we've all known about for decades now. I knew JVC mono playback wasn't great way back in the 90s. This has been posted about many times in the past 20 years on this site.

I think the issue here is a combination. Feeding linear audio, source based, power based, and possibly even human perception. This would explain why the issue is more pronounced for you than for me.

My power here is relatively clean, I have many sources to test (good mono to bad mono), and my hearing is astute. I did test my full range of mono tapes, in multiple JVC and Panasonic decks. And yes, that took me quite a bit of time. Both JVC and Panasonic had issues with some mono tapes, JVC more than Panasonic. All JVC models performed on par with one another. The SR-V101 is actually a bit better here compared to coveted decks like the 9800 (noting the 9800 is better than the 101 in other areas). So if you find your JVC "unacceptable", you're going to feel that way about any JVC deck.

You're in Canada. Shipping time/costs is a factor here.

As I mentioned in email, if you have all linear tapes, just sell the JVC, go buy a Panasonic AG-1980 instead. I'll send a buyer your way for the JVC. I know the deck is good. Due to family health (and burnout), I've had to mostly step back from VCR work for now. So I don't want to be a middleman to receive and resell a deck right now. I just can't do it. Let me send somebody your way.

@RobustReviews, if you bought a deck from eBay, odds are it wouldn't even play a tape correctly, if it even arrived in one piece. Don't make a bad comparison here. I'm sure Teefer would attest to the quality of the deck playback (excluding linear audio), as well as the quality of shipping (secure packaging, well padded).

And FYI, most of the cost of the workflow goes towards the external TBC. Not the VCR, certainly not the capture card. The TBC is the real "chunk of change" here.

It has to use capacitors, they're a fundamental part of every microelectronics circuit, this shows quite a lack of understanding of electronics if you think the unit is 'mostly cap free' - PSUs, ICs, oscillators, filters, decoupling and a host of fundamental components or paradigms can not work without capacitors, this is just plain silly. There are hundreds of them listed on the BOM for this device! There are several dozen that support the main IC alone.

https://elektrotanya.com/jvc_sr-v101...wnload.html#dl for my source for the manual.

Panasonic did use some junk ones though, that'll I'll agree! But it's simply incorrect to refer to this device as 'mostly caps free', which is beyond the realm of microelectronics as understood by everybody else in the field.

My finger in the air diagnosis is that this is something related to decoupling, classic hallmarks of intrusive noise on to an amplifier but without having it on a bench in front of me take that as nothing more than the ramblings of somebody just posting something on the internet.

Have you tried a self-record/playback on the deck? That'll eliminate a whole host of potential causes and probably open more diagnostic avenues.

My diagnostic order here would be:

Check for noise on self-recording and playback.
Check for noise on recording on the suspect deck played back on another machine.

We can broadly eliminate whole chunks of circuitry here with smart diagnosis.

@Robust: What part of mostly did you not understand? :hmm:

I would also suggest you lack the ability to give an educated guess, since I don't believe that you have lots of experience with JVC decks, nor NTSC video. So your semi-random guess is more random than not.

Your getting passive aggressive with your comments again. Stop it. ;)

About the recording question, I refer to this:
But I question that. JVC has no way to specify audio recording method. It dual records both HiFi and linear, like pretty much every other HiFi VCR. And anyway, recording isn't playback. (Yes, some troubleshooting tell-tales, but we're now past that.) JVC has known muffle and hiss/noise in playback, at times, with linear/mono tapes. Not all, just many.

I'm still unable to discern much of anything from the lousy samples submitted here. So I really have no idea how aggressive the tonal loss is. Pretty graphs spit out by analyzer software don't mean much, aside from confirmation that the waveform has noise. I need to hear it, clearly, cleanly.

Linear is an ancient audio recording method, and HiFi decks generally did poorly. Including JVC, but not only. And some were known to playback linear well, mostly Panasonic and rebadges (Samsung, etc).

This still hasn't been addressed:
Why not record quality video with JVC, quality audio with __. Re-merge captures.

Many of us here have had to do this many times over the years. Please do not respond with a Karen/Chad answer (in pouting voice) "I want it to work how I think it should work" (and without having a clue how any of it works). Trying to find a single deck to play every tape perfectly is a fool's errand, especially when dealing with special needs type sources (ie, linear audio videotapes). Certain Panasonic S-VHS decks come close, but not flawless, not without issues or fail rates, and very often expensive money pit decks (AG-1980, etc). Panasonic is not better than JVC, just different.

What I won't be doing is randomly mailing out JVCs, and to Canada no less (international shipping) -- especially when we all know (except for the OP?) that JVC linear audio performance is lesser.

hodgey clearly knows what's what in this thread, having seen the performance of many decks. Probably not anywhere near as many as I have, but still numerous.

Another suggestion: JVC audio playback, in the menu, behaves differently. Try HIFI, MONO, L ONLY, and R ONLY. I've seen where the linear works better in one mode over another. Also some that didn't sound great regardless. And some were fine in all modes. It really is a tape-based issue, whether or not you want to acknowledge it.

We must have a different definition of 'mostly'.

How does this use fewer caps than say, an equivalent model from Sony or Panasonic, or anybody else for that matter?

It uses no-more-or-no-fewer by my reckoning than any other? Tell me where I'm wrong!

If you want to know, I have more experience with NTSC video than JVC decks granted but neither I would claim are my forté, but I'm always happy to admit where my knowledge is not strong or I'm just throwing something 'into the ring' so to speak.

I'm still confused what was intended by 'mostly cap free' though?

I'm trying to help diagnose the issue built on many years (albeit quite outdated now) of electronics design and repair - I certainly have enough fundamental small-signal electronics theory rattling around in the head to try and offer some assistance!

===Added - for clarity ===
Just out of interest, reading some of the notes on the schematic, and I'm sure somebody would have piped up and said something, but it is a US model isn't it, not a Japanese import as they have markedly different noise filters?

JVC has far fewer caps, a single board, and rarely has caps issues. When a JVC board has issues, it's usually the board itself has fizzled out. And even then, that's uncommon. With JVC, motors give out more, DDs break, band loosen, lube dries, alignment drifts (gravity, shipping jostles, etc).

I just opened my own 101, and it has 14 visible electrolyte caps. You can't see easily under the transport, so let's just double that to 30 caps total. Panasonic probably has about that many on just the board with the LEDs (clock, etc). It's ridiculous how horribly built Panasonic S-VHS decks were.

If you can offer assistance, I'm all for it. But do it to advance the advice being given so far. Not in some ploy to make yourself seem superior. Sometimes your commentary is very snide and passive aggressive -- something I'm very familiar with in recent years, and I constantly have to tell both of them to cut that shit out. Zero patience for it these days. I like you, I really do. So proceed. I'm pretty sure you do know more than I do about general electronics, but again I'm no dummy. All ears.

I'd offer to remove the transport on my "dirty deck" (also a 101), and take photos. But I think you'd learn more from the service manual anyway. Pretty sure that's what hodgey has done.