Transfering DV tapes with Pinnacle?
 

Has anyone used a pinnacle 710 usb device to transfer DV tapes to a pc? If so what version of windows works the best. At This time I just want top transfer the files to a hard drive to protect from the tapes deteriorating.
Thanks
Glenn

I used the Pinnacle 500-USB under win 10 using the Pinnacle driver designed for Win 7, The driver emulated firewire over USB successfully and was able to control the camcorder functions as well. The software used is Sclive.

Yes. I used the 710-USB driver from the page linked-to by Latreche above. It works well using SCLive. WinDV does not work.

I'm on Windows 10, 21H2.

One caution to add that there is a limitation with USB 2.0, Some people experienced signal dropouts due to the way USB transmits data vs firewire according to them. I haven't tried to experiment with this myself to confirm if the drop outs are tape related or port related, but I do know that I get more bandwidth with firewire compared to USB 2.0 even though theorically USB is 480Mbps vs 400Mbps for firewire.

USB ports connections may be shared internal to the PC, so there may be other devices that take USP port clock cycles; e.g., keyboard, mouse, storage, etc., so the actual sustained transfer rates may be substantially less than the 480. It will depend on how the PC in questions is configured.

A firewire port, while a lower number may realize a higher sustainable rate in a PC because the port is rarely shared with another device.

Makes perfect sense.

We need to remember that most newish systems have USB 3, and for old systems such as mine, it's easy to put in a USB 3 card.

Jwillis wrote about a bug in certain versions of USB 3.0, The bug is a freeze or a disconnection if you plug in a USB 2.0 device into that version of USB 3.0 port, I do have a computer with that bug, Both the 500-USB in firewire mode and BrightEye 75 in control mode freeze on USB 3.0 port, Both devices are USB 2.0, I switch to the normal USB 2.0 and everything works fine, I think beginning with USB 3.1 everything is sorted out.

There's always something. So USB 2, in your experience, is fine. Good.

I have a PCIe USB 3.0 card in my machine and I have no problems with USB capture with any of my sticks, including my 710-USB in Firewire mode. I sometimes have issues in analogue video mode with the 710-USB but I'm pretty sure that is because of buggy drivers.

Can these Pinnacle USB<>IEEE1394 (Firewire) bridges work? Yes.
Is is guaranteed to work? No.

The issue here is the USB. Hubs tend to be awful, including cases ports, while direct motherboard is often best. But the quality of the motherboard, CPU, and USB chipset all matter.

WinDV works quite well. I recently set up a miniPC, Win10, with a 510, and WinDV works perfectly. (I used the system to recapture some personal family DV tapes as DV, after seeing some important footage while viewing the MPEG captures from my ATI AIW system.)

So everything you're seeing here (at least all posts above mine here) is correct, including the seemingly contradicting info. That's because "it depends" on many variables.

At this late date, I'm not convinced Firewire cards work all that well anymore, neither chipsets nor drivers. But it can work. Or not.

Are we having fun yet? :screwy:

One issue to keep in mind with IEEE1394 (aka: Firewire) cards is that with Win7 MS changed the drivers. The new drivers MicroSoft has provided and installed starting with Win7 may not work for transfer from some devices (Perhaps a subtle change that older gear did not recognize.). However, the so called "Legacy" driver would work.

The legacy driver was provided, but not installed, with Win7. For later versions of Windows it had to be D/L from MicroSoft. Also, it would not be unusual for a Windows update to reinstall the new driver.

Thank you everyone for your help. I am using a old dell XPS 8500, built in 2013. Was windows 7, hard drive failed and computer repair shop installed windows 10. I assume the computer is using usb 2 ports due to its age.
As far as software it sounds like I should experiment with WinDV and SCLive. When reading the forms it appears that SClive has versions 3.5 and 4. Is there any difference between the two versions?

Glenn :congrats:

Check the owners guide, The specs I saw online indicate it supports both USB 2.0 and USB 3.0

For Win10 you need to D/L the legacy Firewire drivers (I used them from the Win8 support site.)

EDITED: Disregard.

Install your Firewire drivers using this guide from Startech:
https://www.startech.com/en-us/faq/f...cy-driver-swap
WinDV has not been working here for some time, I suspect a Windows 10 update borked it.
Scenalyzer is your go-to for DV transfer/capture. Version 4 is the go. If you use the portable version ie don't choose to install it, you won't have to insert the unlock code (which you can get from their website in any case).
I have written a PDF guide for Scenalyzer. It's on Google Drive:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/158O...ew?usp=sharing

Thank you again to all who responded to my post. Hushpower if I am using the pinnacle movie box plus do I need to down load the firewire device driver you recommended in the last message? I have purchased this device off eBay and I am waiting for it to be delivered. Reading the small print on the outside of the box it appears to be a pinnacle 710 usb device. latreche34, indicated I needed to download the pinnacle driver for windows 7, I assumed that this driver and SCLive 4 is what I need to transfer the DV tapes to my computer. Is this correct?
Thank you
Glenn

Given that the 710 is a USB 2.0 connection to the PC, are the IEEE1394/Firewire drivers really required on the PC? They would of course be required for an internal Firewire card.

Well I'll be stuffed, and I stand corrected. Firewire drivers are not required. I assumed... :smack:

I just installed the Pinnacle driver I linked-to above on a "virgin" Win 8.1 system and also a Win 10/64 laptop, plugged in the 710-USB and ran Scenalyzer and it worked like a charm. There is full camera control via the Scenalyzer control panel.

Lordsmurf, could you delete my two posts immediately above this one. I can no longer edit them.

Me too didn't have to install firewire drivers on Win 10, Pinnacle driver did take care of it all.

I received the pinnacle usb device today. I downloaded the pinnacle windows 7 driver and downloaded SCLive 4. I started SCLive 4 and selected the input button. Under setting's the pinnacle 710-usb hub appeared and I selected that. I plugged in the firewire cable (supplied by pinnacle) and turned on my video camera. I am getting an Error "Can't connect to capture-driver disconnect and reconnect firewire of camera". When I disconnect and connect it still does not work. I am using a JVC Gr-DV3000 camcorder. Any thoughts or suggestions

Glenn

When I unplug the pinnacle from the computer while in SCLive, windows immediately closes down and gathers information about the error and reboots the computer

Sounds like a driver conflict, Did you install the correct version of the driver, 64bit vs 32bit?

You need to select the Microsoft DV Camera, as per the attachment.

My sequence is:

Connect 710-USB to computer

Connect Firewire cable to 710-USB and camera

Power On the camera

Start Scenalyzer

Wait for a few seconds then choose Custom Virtual Camera

Wait for a few seconds, then open the dropdown list again and choose Microsoft DV Camera and VCR.

I must have missed that extra step, going through the "Custom Virtual camera...".

-- merged --

When I unplug the pinnacle from the computer while in SCLive, windows immediately closes down and gathers information about the error and reboots the computer
Yes, I got the same. Won't do that again! :D

I second that, I remember selecting Microsoft DV camera.

When I open SCLive I only get the Pinnacle 710-usb option in the capture select box. I do not have the option to choose Custom Virtual Camera. I download the Firewire drivers to see if this was the issue, but this did not help. I open control panel in my computer and noticed the ieee 1394 bus host controllers is not showing up in device manager. Has anyone had this issue?

Hmm. I don't think the Firewire drivers are needed. I captured DV from my 710-USB on a computer that didn't have Firewire installed.

This is what my Device Manager looks like for the 710 (see attached); driver is 4.0.46.0.

-- merged --

A bit more info: I tried on my non-firewire computer:

710-USB not connected yet.

I started up Scenalyzer. The only item in the device list was "Not Available, Microsoft Camera/VCR".

I shut down Scenalyzer, then plugged in the 710 (with the camera plugged in to the 710 but switched off).

I Started Scenalyzer again, the 710-USB is now showing in the list, as well as "Not Available, Microsoft DV Camera and VCR".

I switch on my camera.

About 10 seconds later, the function panel comes alive (eg FF, Play, RW buttons) and I can now select "Microsoft DV Camera and VCR".

PS: I crashed my first machine again! I hate it when I do that!

This is probably an indication that the Pinnacle driver did not install correctly, Try rebooting and installing the driver making sure you install the correct version (64bit or 32bit) and select the right device from the list. Another possibility that a Win 10 update nuked the possibility to install a Win 7 driver on a Win 10 machine.

This is the info I have for windows, I did check and I am running a 64 bit. I just took the pinnacle driver off and going to reinstall

Edition Windows 10 Home
Version 21H2
Installed on ‎2020-‎11-‎19
OS build 19044.1766
Experience Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.4180.0

I say again, on the computer without the firewire installed, I do not get "Custom Virtual Camera". I only get "Not Available, Microsoft DV Camera and VCR" (until I plug in the 710-USB, then I get it and the "Not Available" bit goes away, allowing me to choose the Microsoft DV Camera and VCR.

The fact that you get "710-USB" in the SCLive device dropdown list indicates to me that the driver is installed correctly.

My Windows status is the same as yours, Rookie.

I re-loaded SCLive, took a screen shot of it. I have no input button at this time

(6) Here is a screen shot after I plugged in the pinnacle device

(7) This is a screen shot after I plug in my camera

I still believe it's a driver issue, The Pinnacle presence in the drop down window is for a generic USB analog capture device that should be used with vdub, sclive cannot capture from that, it expects a DV stream. The USB to firewire emulation function is missing which should appear as Microsoft DV Camera, this is a responsibility of the driver.
Again I don't know if this was due to MS updates or just certain chipsets of PC machines are not compatible with this legacy function. I do remember though it took me several tries to get mine working two years ago.

I took a screen shot of Hushpower pinnacle driver on the left and the right is my computer showing the driver installed. I tried the loading the pinnacle driver and SClive on my old HP laptop and I get the same problem. In the capture window I can choose from either the pinnacle 710 or the Laptops webcam. The one difference in comparing my device manger to Hushpower is he has the IEEE 1394 host controllers were I do not have these on my device manager. Can this effect SCLive?

Try this:

Windows Settings>Privacy>Camera.

Switch ON app access to the "camera", and then allow Scenealyzer to access the camera.

Oddly, I now have WinDV working.

Thank you Hushpower for continuing to assist me in this frustrating endeavor. I tried your suggestion on window settings (privacy) unfortunately this did not work on my desktop. I have included screen shots of my settings and SClive after I changed the camera settings. I would prefer to get SCLive working, but was wondering if I should give WinDV a go since you also got it working?
Thank you again for your time and everyone else who has responded to this post. I really appreciate the help

FWIW: Firewire devices can be sensitive to exact start-up sequence of both hardware and software. So when you find one that works for your gear stick with it.

Firewire is not really hot swap. Ports can get fried if one tries to hot swap. Make all connections/disconnections when the system and source are powered down.

If software expects to see a device and does not because it was disconnected it may crash the PC. Well behaved software should not, but not all software is programmed with good error handling.

Unless you manage to get the Microsoft DV camera device to pop up there is no way that sclive would capture DV from the Pinnacle device listed in the drop down box, as I explained before it is a USB capture driver.

Definitely worth a shot. It's crazy that for some months, I haven't been able to get WinDV to work, even with my Firewire card, but now it does.

I just tried again on my laptop that hasn't had anything Firewire done to it and Scenalyzer works a treat (as does WinDV), capturing my DV without issue.

I've attached a pic of the bottom of my 710-USB to compare with yours, Rookie.

If all else fails, you should be able to go the clumsier route of capturing your video using the analogue capture process, which is S-Video cabling and RCA for red and white for audio into the 710-USB and out to your PC. You should be able to capture your video with Virtual Dub or AmarecTV, or your video editor. My analogue captures of DV video have been similar, good, quality to the DV capture.

Alternatively, if you have a more than a few tapes to do, you could buy a Firewire expansion card and put it into your computer and capture pure DV that way.

I've not needed to use the 710 for USB>IEEE1394 crossover much, but I've never had issues getting WinDV to work, even with Win10.

By contrast, I've had some problems with VirtualDub and AmaRecTV with random 710s in Win10. Part of that is because the 710 is another long production card, with changes over time, chips and chip software changed over the decade+ it was made. There are also PAL vs. NTSC considerations, even for cards sold native to North America (NTSC problems, PAL fine). I make the better versions of these cards available in the marketplace.

Are you having fun yet? Welcome to video capture. :laugh: :screwy:

Pinnacle 710 usb to IEEE1394 works, but you have to coax the DV emulator system driver to load.. its a little stubborn and takes a long long time to show up under device manager. Once that is done, the system will automatically load a IEEE1394 device driver when it sees something connected to the DV port of the 710. - but its a long daisy chain of device drivers, usb, dv emulator, firewire device.

It will work, but the device chain was designed for offloading DV camcorder "clips" not entire hours long programs. DV is compressed and digital so it should be immune to lipsync issues, but there could be some corruption if any of the devices along the chain overheat or shutdown.

A much simpler (more expensive) option is to get the generic Apple Firewire to Thunderbolt2 adapter, and the Apple Thuderbolt2 to Thunderbolt3 (usb-c) adapter and plug that into a modern PC or Mac.

On the PC you just have to give the usb-c port permission to allow un-certified devices to connect to the PC pci-express bus. Then it appears like you have a native firewire card hanging off your PCI express bus. HP - Hewlett Packard machines have a goofy little software tool to set the bios option. Mac's don't need it.. they just see a certified device and lets anything connected appear on the Mac PCI-express bus and loads drivers. I think Dell's don't even bother to enforce the legal requirement of the usb-c consortium and lets anything in... so windows just loads device drivers... other brands just don't bother.. or put the gatekeeper feature into their bios

its more expensive.. since you have the 710.. but its a lot less complicated device driver and software wise

the usb-c bus is essentially a direct connect to the PC master PCI express bus.. so you don't have any bandwidth issues.. like you might have with the USB2 to DV device driver chain with the 710

i don't know what i would recommend other than WinDV.. its really all you need.. but any version SONY Vegas from way back had the vidcap.exe program which would capture/import any DV or HDV content

Cyberlink PowerDirector would do it a little more DirectX accurate.. dv video capture/import was basically "file copy" over a very simple directx filter for dv devices.. i'm pretty sure even windows movie maker would import it

Vegas is still around, it got sold to Magix, Powerdirector is still around .. they bury their "Import" or "Capture" features in their File menus now.. its not front and center anymore

Macs, at least the last Intel Mac I saw.. iMovie just imported the video.. nothing extra required

the adapters do get hot.. for long captures.. so I would put a fan on them

the adapters have been around so long.. even generic versions are sold by the original Chinese sources Apple uses on ebay.. so you can avoid the Apple tax.. but I'd just buy them from Apple.. if you go that route

The Marvin, Marvin-CR and Marvin-lite Pinnacle USB to DV route was amazing.. for its time.. as close to standardizing a DV camcorder to usb video transfer as ever happened.. but its for PC only.. nothing like that was ever offered on Macs since they always had a native firewire hardware solution all the way up to today.. via thunderbolt3/4 usb-c

that the same Apple hardware works on Intel/AMD PCs was just very convenient.. and still is.. if you need DV transfer

still for the 710, check the C:\windows\system32\setupapi.log file to see if the installer for the Pinnacle device driver had any problems completing the device driver install. Occasionally its written to look in the wrong location and you have to copy it to that location manually, then re-run the installer to complete its move into the protected device drivers inf directories.. what often happened is "most" of the uncompressed device drivers for the CVBS and S-Video ports would install and that was enough for most people.. the DV function was an oddball.. which most people didn't care about.. but it really did work.. I've done it personally, on 32 and 64 bit.. its a miracle to behold.. but a problem child.

Thanks jwillis84 for the info. I uninstalled the pinnacle driver and reinstalled the driver this morning. When I checked for the setupapi.log file under C:\windows\system32, I could not find it. I did a search and found this file setupapi.dev.log, under C:\windows\inf. I have included screen shots. The dev.log file took three shots to see the entire file. The exit status say it was a success. Just wanted to confirm if this is correct