ATI 650 USB blown out highlights?
Capturing mpeg 2 through the catalyst software I am getting major blown out highlights. There are parts of the he video where I cannot see faces as they are just white blurs. I did not get this problem through my Canopus Advc 55.
Any suggestions? |
No fix most likely. It's a bad design with AGC pumping. Possibly caused by false (and only partial) Macrovision detection.
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...t-fix-agc.html https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...=1#post2149571 https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...=1#post2032756 https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...ol-(AGC)-Issue http://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?...f5dc5ee#p44457 |
The ATI 650 USB has specifically been not recommended for years in this and other forums. For example, quoting lordsmurf, it's "cards like the ATI 650 . . . have issues with luma flusing during recording, because if the AGC." (http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...html#post27432)
Or here: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...html#post48301 And other posts for years: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...i-600-usb.html http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...html#post28120 The PCI version of the 650 is recommended, not the USB: |
At one point in time, before some of these things came to light, some of us were suggesting the 650 USB. I either didn't notice AGC issues in my tests, or the tests where not long enough. The 650 is why I altered some of my testing parameters regarding AGC.
I don't remember off-hand if the 650 PCI has it. Pretty sure the 750 cards have the AGC problem, which is why I've never suggested those. In fact, I think it had several. Not sure about 550 or 600 PCI, actually. I've forgotten. The 600 USB is fine. |
Thanks for your replies everyone. :-)
I see that the MX02 HD/SD is suggested what about the MX02 Mini? |
Have you done a search of the forum? Several users have posted their experiences with that device.
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I have but haven't really got a definite answer other than it is nice.
Are all the MX02s the same quality when capturing? |
I don't recommend ATI 650 at all. It's the worst. You get AGC issues. It also suffers from chroma as far as I remember.
Lately I was using ATI 750 HD PCIe and USB versions to capture from VHS. These both cards do suffer from AGC as well. But not always. In my case it depended on particular VHS, particular VCR. When they didn't suffer from AGC, they did a really good job. If I were you, I'd get ATI 600 USB. I wouldn't recommend it for LaserDiscs, but for VHS is fine. |
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TIA! |
Not full chroma which is fine for vhs but you want full chroma for LDs.
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Does the VC500 do "full chroma"? What about clipping superblacks and AGC? TIA! |
The ATI 600's clip superblacks. The VC500 does not. None of the devices you mentioned above have AGC.
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Perhaps the PCIe does, but t's not suggested anyway. |
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http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/atta...1&d=1508625731 Of several examples posted at digitalfaq, the example below shows clipping at y=16, including black borders. The image shows discoloration and artifacts from the clipping, which is also explained in the text from the original post: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/atta...vtc_81-clipjpg The above example was originally posted here: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...html#post43771 The example below shows minimum luma levels readout stopping at y=16: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/atta...ure-ex1-avijpg The above example was originally posted here: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...html#post43950 Examples of no black clipping were posted using an 9600XT AIW and a Diamond vc500. A readout of the VC500's levels show min/max "y" values all the way down to Y=0 (black borders) is below: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/atta...-frame-3600jpg The examples were posted in the same thread in post #43951: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...html#post43951 The VC500 readout shows brightest y-level detail at y=240, which is not significantly useful detail but which can easily be recovered using any number of simple means in YUV and could have been tweaked during VirtualDuib capture. But clipped detail cannot be recovered or successfully brightened and often affects dynamic range and contrast levels in the final result. |
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P.S. Thoughts on the ATI-750 USB? Crushed blacks? AGC? Thank you Sanlyn! |
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Clamping or clipping is usually a spike with no tail, not a sudden cutoff. The 750 has horrible AGC. |
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* Note: Not necessarily a bad thing, and I may add it to our glossary, Now, looking back at the referenced threads, a comparison between the ATI 600 USB and another card implies that the values weren't mapped 16-235, but instead a wider ranger (8-240ish?). At face value, yes, it's not ideal. (Though I wonder if this is by design, not accident. As you often mention, as do I, too much crushing for "contrast" happens on Youtube/etc. Yuck. I want real, not fake color/contrast/sharpness.) But we're also talking VHS/Video8-based. I have to tweak proc amps more than I care to as it is, because the tapes are rarely shot/broadcast with ideal values. After proc amp tweaks, either in hardware (TBC-3000/BVP4+) or software controls, or both, I'm just not seeing a discernible difference between the VC500 and ATI 600 USB. I even compared it to a wider range of cards, too: Pinnacle, Hauppauge, several ATI AIW drivers, EZcraps, Tevion, as well as several makes of DVD recorders. The DVD recorders all give worse performance, save for the RCA's Zoran chipset (which was on par with the ATI AIW). Some of the PCI Hauppauges tended to be worse than EZcraps at the YUV stuff! My point is this: I'd like to see what you do ... but I'm not. :question: Even if I could, I'm wondering if it actually has a drastic impact on quality, as you're suggesting. And I don't think it does, for this sort of source. Only Laserdisc has a decent argument here. BTW, what shows the histograms? I forget. Is that VirtualDub or Avisynth? I use real-world testing, and have never relied on charts/graphs except when calibrating monitors. This much I can say with certainty: the ATI AIW is easily the best of them all. :congrats: Another consideration is this: I've long suspected that the ATI 600 USB series card had some minor variations over the life of the card, which has resulted in the mixed findings to date. There was, after all, several package rebadges (Diamond, VisionTek, ATI direct, others?), and that often means a hidden sub-model existed with minor hardware variances. To date, I've been unwilling to smash apart the USB cards in the name of research. Some reports to date have been worse than your finds, while others mirror my own. The VC500 has also been accused of this: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...perblacks.html Possibly a driver/OS issue, not the hardware. Interesting that we have differing findings. :hmm: More testing is needed. Have you actually tested this card yourself, or just relied on others posting test caps? Because as I mentioned at http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...html#post43956, there are often other variables at work. Quote:
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I've seen the phrases "superblack clipping" and "superwhite clipping" since I started capturing video with Windows 3.1. I recall t hat I first saw that the notion mentioned on an ancient website that discussed the use of proc amps for capturing. I doubt that msgohan invented it, since readers at Videohelp and doom9 have been using the terms for years.
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The clipped images I posted aren't the only example of difficulty in restoring (or simulating) snappy contrast during post-processing of clipped blacks. I recall another example posted at http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...html#post42190 and following posts. |
I just don't remember seeing the term "superblack clipping" having been used until recent years. It's somewhat ambiguous as to what it really means. For one thing, it suggests a "blacker than black" state, and that's just not the truth of the matter. And "blacker than black" refers to something else entirely (sync). When something clips, everything outside the range is simply dropped. So "clips at 16" is more accurate, or even "clips to black" (referring to the non-black darks).
The proc amp was very likely referring to "blacker than black", and resulting sync issues. That's easy to do. It likely had nothing to do with 0-255/16-235 colorspaces. |
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