Most recommended JVC VCR PAL model?
Hi,
I'm considering expanding my VCR collection to include the JVC, as it's usually praised here as generally superior to PAL, better than Panasonic. In my previous thread, JVC vs. Panasonic vs. Sharp vs. others? the 77xx (@lordsmurf), the HR-Sx500, and the HR-Sx600 series (@hodgey) were generally recommended. It's interesting, but the 77xx is not mentioned as recommended in the VCR Buying Guide on the forum and on the site. Additionally, I found several threads complaining about artifacts and poor mono sound in this model (or Philips VR1100 which is apparently similar). For this reason, I decided to open this thread to find out if there is anything better than the above-mentioned models for archiving VHS tapes (mainly recordings of family events). Currently I have:
Thank you in advance for your reply! |
You won't find a comparison between a list of JVC VCRs anywhere, because for that to happen someone has to own them all, and honestly at this point of time all VCRs are aging and hard to compare them without a proper restoration to factory conditions. The consensus here is, a good VCR is any S-VHS/D-VHS VCR built in line TBC with S-Video out socket and in good working condition, these requirements alone narrows down your choices to only 2 brands, JVC and Panasonic, and only few models of each, with good working condition added, you are up to almost hunting down to find one.
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Are you able to read the data off of that DMR-ES545's external hard drive after recording to it? I've heard there are programs that will read encrypted Panasonic drives - namely ISOBuster and PanasonicSync but have tried neither. That model was also sold originally in Europe, correct? Supposedly almost all models sold there use the same Panasonic chipsets that allow the ES10/ES15 to do their line-TBC-like goodness.
Could be an interesting capture setup if you re able to record to that external SSD in 480i and then transfer to PC. |
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panasonic-rec Good CLI software to read data from the MEIHDFS Panasonic's proprietary file system. There is a more detailed description of reverse engineering in the README. There is no need to create a disk image. For Windows ready-to-use binaries, for Linux, manual build is required. There is no mention of Mac OS, but it may work. ISO Buster A good, paid software for copying and cloning disks by sectors. GUI. Apparently, there is no difference between the panasonic-rec and ISO Buster regarding copying. haliner/dvr-recover A free program for recovering files from disk (including deleted ones). Slow, quite long search. It seems to find deleted files as well. There is a version rewritten for Python 3 in the pull request. I would suggest panasonic-rec or ISO Buster. |
- JVC 7965 and 7611, both are quite different.
- Panasonic FS200 and HS1000, both are quite different. Buy all 4. :D As mentioned, condition matters. It's not just about model anymore. |
Not to mention if you enter budget into the mix, this could make it impossible for a lot of folks, To get a fully working or fully restored S-VHS VCR built in line TBC you're hitting the 2 grand mark, It's sad but that's the reality. I got all my VCRs for under $200 with minimal maintenance but that was over 5-10 years ago, I quit the hunt.
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You'll probably be amazed at first how JVC cleans up the image but then you'll be disappointed by how much detail it loses. In my case, the JVC was always much louder than the Panasonic, and I'm not talking about the sound from the recordings :)
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JVC line TBC/DNR does not lose details, Check your setting for Edit/Normal/...
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I only used edit, all the others are too blurry. DNR off Best/on/off, TBC on/off. Looks like I prefer oversharpened image from panasonic and details that are not there :)
It was/is JVC HR-S9850 vs. Panasonic NV-HS960 auto mode with DNR, TBC off. Generally panasonic is for me much better in many cases: better linear audio with filtering high freq. cassette mechanism is ultra fast and silent, playing is inaudible. Power cable can be disconnected :) Auto secam detection. |
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I've never owned a panasonic but it seems to me it did not live long enough like JVC to take advantage of the new technology SoC (System on the chip), Everytime I see an open Panasonic VCR for repair I see tons of analog video boards hooked up with several connectors which requires a bulky power supply to power them up all.
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I have no problems, the design is also better in pana no thousand stupid ribbons... :) jvc 9850 https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/error.gif pana 960 https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/error.gif |
Ribbons are not stupid, they are clever design, the easiest way to connect/disconnect modules for easy servicing, They are still being used today on modern devices, and you can still buy them at any length, pin number, pin pitch. Proprietary connectors are a nightmare.
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The problem is Panasonic was stubbornly using base machine designs from the late 80s. While Panasonic and JVC were both part of Matsushita at the time, Panasonic was stodgy and overly complicated, antiquated even. Whereas JVC sought simplicity of design with modern form and function. This is apparent in multiple products, not just the with-TBC S-VHS VCRs. The large clunky appearance of Panasonic gear often created the false impression that the machines were "workhorses", but in reality were just "old nags destined for the glue factory". I would further suggest anybody enamored by these machines has never worked on them, nor run into the inevitable costly repairs yet (YET!!). Consider some of us that intimately know these machines, some of us for decades:
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Fortunately, everyone has eyes and everyone can have 2 3 4 different VCRs and decide for themselves. I expressed my own opinion because I was also looking for a JVC, but my device loses in basically every respect, I don't like the specificity of the image generated by the JVC and I'm not just talking about capturing and editing, I'm talking also about watching direct from the cassette on a 65-inch OLED screen :).
Repair? not really I'll buy another one. |
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However, even with the TBC/DNR off at least on my PAL ones it seems to have some sort of luma ghosting/afterimages between frames. especially on scene changes. Attachment 17530 older JVC HR-S6900 without TBC (Edit mode) Attachment 17531 JVC HR-S8600 with TBC/DNR (Edit mode with TBC/DNR off) Attachment 17532 JVC HR-S8600 with TBC/DNR (default mode with TBC/DNR on, don't remember if BEST was on or off) Quote:
See e.g newer PAL panasonic SVHS decks like NV-HS930, NV-SV120 and NV-SV121 or the newer ones released in Japan. Or this US consumer one, not sure which year it's from but probably at least 97/98 since it uses the z mech. These are much simpler, vcr electronics got way simplified during the mid-late 90s as functions got combined into multi-function ICs and components got smaller. |
Thanks for the info about the Panasonic.
Yes by mid 2000's VCRs became like toys, They were literally selling for under $20 retail, albeit regular VHS with composite only. |
AG1980's aren't too bad to work on (just rather time consuming) and I don't think there's a benefit to replacing every single cap - I don't think any of the "professionals" replace everything. TBC board, timer/front boards, and some of the high heat areas do basically always need recapping and that's something like 70 caps or so. There are also 4 particularly annoying caps to get to that are below the head drum that are almost always out of spec that requires desoldering the head drum itself from the PCB (though I suspect most refurbishing services don't touch those either) I do fully recap the power supplies as well just for good measure, but most of the time, power supply caps test well within spec.
It takes me probably 8-10 hours to refurbish an AG1980 after having done about 12 of them now. Hard to say how they compare to the "professionals" doing it I did do a 100% recap on an AG1980 once (which probably added an extra 10 hours of time), but I haven't really tested how that performs to a partially recapped one, but I suspect they are quite similar. The thing I think I heard happening that was not good was only replacing a very small amount of caps - essentially only the ones that tested bad at the time of the repair rather than just replacing everything that is likely to fail. From what I'm told, almost no one touches the audio boards, though the "Audio 2" board has something like 25 SMT caps mounted upside down on a daughter board which are very annoying to get to and those are almost always all bad as well. It's not clear to me what that daughter board actually does and if it's even used in VHS playback - could be something with editing/dubbing maybe. Would be curious to hear if anyone knows what the "audio 2" board does. As far as 12-Volt-Vids - he definitely hates SMT caps of any kind because they go bad so often, but moreso he hates the little ceramic boards that are used in certain Panasonics such as the AG1970. Those use thin film components printed directly onto that PCB and cannot be soldered to in order to replace anything and they almost all are already bad. He incorrectly states in his video that 1980's have that type of board in them. If they did, then we wouldn't be able to repair them. See here where he shows the ceramic boards - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho_GIFR2NhA&t=618s |
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