For example I like HS1000 better for most work. But compared to 8xxx or 9xxx series DR-10000 is nicer.

Does any of those filter image noise? I have a few old tapes that have a lot of image noise.
And a lot of very worn tapes, so it would be great to have one that's perfect for old worn vhs tapes.

I'm thinkin about spending 1000 € or more if needed.

You can read about VCR abilities from the FAQ and other threads. tl;dr JVC has denoise capabilities that can't be turned off, Panasonic has weaker denoiser and it can be turned off.

I prefer Panasonic because I do the post processing manually. For most people without deep knowhow about DIY denoising methods JVC is good enough.

not sure about the PAL deck, but for NTSC the reverse is true -
the Panny AG-1980 DNR is always on and cant be turned off and the JVC decks can

That's just it, it's so hard difficult to decide which one would suit me best, there's so many great models. Sorry, I keep pestering you guys.:o

Say, would a vcr with a component output make any difference?

no it wont
VHS tapes are not recorded in Component form
S-Video is best

I've decided to get a Panasonic NV-FS200 which is (as far as I've understood) the same as Panasonic AG-1980.
I've heard so many good comments about the AG models.

So any difference if I connect the vcr with a S-video cable or a Scart cable?

Use s-video. S-video is "separated video", which keeps the luma and chroma on separate channels. This is how VHS is stored, and the main reason it looks the best. There's no changes internally to the signal.

SCART is really no different from RGB, VGA or component. It's more complicated, of course, but this is the simple answer. It's both not needed and not desired.

When capturing any consumer analog format -- VHS, S-VHS, Betamax, Hi8, Video8, etc -- always use s-video.

The SCART jacks on PAL VCRs generally only carry composite video and stereo audio. The original SCART standard never had provisions for S-Video and it was later added by borrowing pins from other assigned connections like RGB. In order to support it, the VCR would have needed a toggle switch to change the SCART output between composite and S-Video since the "Y" signal shares the pin normally used for composite video pin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCART

Is there any signifcant difference between Panasonic NV-FS 200 and Panasonic NV-HS 1000?
I was quite impressed with the 200 when I saw this video.

Then another one says "If you like the oversharpened picture of FS-200 I think there's nothing "better". "

I'm getting dizzy..:weird:

Just curious about what you guys think. I already bought the FS-200 as a "comapanion" to be next to my JVC HR-DR10000. I only want the best for my old and dear tapes.

Hehe, that quote was from me. That sample has been captured by using the higher end of sharpness scale in FS-200. It's a matter of taste what you call it, for archiving I wouldn't overshoot as much even if it can look good with very good source material. That said I prefer HS-1000 over FS-200 with most tapes. Sometimes FS-200 does better job with certain problem recordings. And sometimes JVC and so on and so on. I might be able to make samples with FS-200 and HS-1000 later if I get motivated enough. :)

edit: Some HS-1000 screens which alone without context don't mean much so take with a grain of salt: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...55#post1625155

JVC HM-DT100U and Marantz MV-8300 should be added to the D-VHS list

Digital VHS
 

It's actually a shame digital VHS didn't establish itself, the same could be said for HDV, or HiDef on MiniDV format. I took to using Digital8 from Sony after I bought a used camcorder upgrade, and I still use MiniDisc and as mentioned, kept records, LaserDisc and other older formats, Beta for example. The initial idea was to cover any software I desired, but I am a gadget freak by nature, so the more ability and feature, the more aesthetically pleasing the design, the more I'm intrigued to own one, and no doubt, if you keep up with YouTube, there are plenty of likeminded hoarders of old gear in Cyberspace! I'd like to try exploiting D-VHS in the modern era. I use Digital8 Sony to fill the gab between digital and analog, it's amazingly versatile!

BTW, let me know if bumping this is objectionable, I'm new here, but old in age!

Not much info on the Panasonic PAL machines so as I have them all I will add my thoughts. They are completely different to the NTSC decks so please remember that. I have used the front page list and added dates and my comments.

Blaupunkt RTV-950 / Panasonic NV-FS 200

1992 machine. Very reliable with good TBC. Soft-sharp slider does sharpen at centre position. Very stable output with TBC and machine is well built and very heavy. G deck mechanism. Faults are few but pinch roller will need replacing as it causes tape skew when worn or tired. Low noise and an all round great machine. Good hard heads last well.

Blaupunkt RTV-965 / Panasonic NV-HS 1000

1994/early 1995 and uses the K mech (with the weak point of the tape load drive collar which is easily fixed when the deck is removed). TBC and soft-sharp slider. Has 'AI' (artificial intelligence) which is supposed to make a difference but mainly for recording. Picture quality is better than the FS200 but not by much. Does not mask minor dropout so well (shows as grey streaks) but on good tapes is one of the best. Still well built but not as heavy as HS 200. Does not like TDK PRO S-VHS tapes as the head WILL clog (even when both are new).

NV-HS800

As HS1000 exactly but without some edit features and no TBC. Same picture and head clogging with TDK tapes.

Metz S-VHS VC62 / Panasonic NV-HS 950

1998 machine, based on the K deck again. Similar look to the HS1000 but not a full drop down door. First model with 3DNR (temporal noise reduction). Very good picture quality with TBC and NR independently switchable. Heads don't clog with TDK tape. No picture settings AT ALL but default is fine. Has CVC (crystal view control) permanently enabled which monitors the head wear and the signal from the tape. Better than CVC from 1996 (first year of that feature) when it was just a 'grain boost' (fake sharpness). A good machine but heads no longer available so make sure when buying that they are good (they are not as hard as the FS200 ones).

Panasonic NV-HS 860

Z deck, 2000 introduction. Nice machine for restoration with TBC and NR independently switchable but not robust like the older decks. As HS 960 but without some edit features and no manual record level. When HiFi audio drops out there is a moment of muting before linear sound is heard which is common across all later Panasonic VCR's. Three position sharpness (SOFT-AUTO-SHARP). The effect of this varies with the state of the heads (thanks to the CVC) so try all three settings. AUTO or SOFT is usually best. Usually overpriced on the used market. Weak spot is the loading arm drive (same for all Z deck) but parts can still be got at the moment.

Panasonic NV-HS 930

Z deck, 2003 introduction. Fair machine for restoration with TBC and NR independently switchable but not robust like the older decks. Exactly as HS830 but with some edit features and manual record level. When HiFi audio drops out there is a moment of muting before linear sound is heard which is common across all later Panasonic VCR's. Three position sharpness (SOFT-AUTO-SHARP). Not such a good picture as the HS830/930 due to crushed contrast and video ringing. In fact not quite as good as the basic 630 VHS only model of the range for most well recorded vanilla VHS material. SOFT is the best setting but not perfect as the slightly crushed contrast is still there masking deep shadow detail. We are over the peak now and quality is not there. Power supply is on the same board as the video section so corners obviously being cut.

Panasonic NV-HS 960

Z deck, 2000 introduction. Nice machine for restoration with TBC and NR independently switchable but not robust like the older decks. When HiFi audio drops out there is a moment of muting before linear sound is heard which is common across all later Panasonic VCR's. Three position sharpness (SOFT-AUTO-SHARP). The effect of this varies with the state of the heads (thanks to the CVC) so try all three settings. AUTO or SOFT is usually best. Too much sharpening applied in auto when heads are new condition (looks punchy for direct viewing I suppose).

Panasonic NV-SV 121

We are in 2005 and the end for S-VHS. As HS830 so Z deck, no TBC or 3DNR. Crushed contrast (why was this popular). Not really one to seek out but its S-VHS so better than nothing.

Couple of extras for you.

Panasonic NV-F70

1988 plain VHS model, First G deck range but excellent HiFi tracking on older HiFi tapes and also the picture is very clean and clear.

AG5260

1994, compact studio machine (non S-VHS) but has LP and SP, excellent picture quality on home recorded tapes (two position switch on the rear applies picture processing or no). Open and not crushed contrast. Not much to look at but I have had comments asking how I got VHS to look so good when I use it. Same head as HD600 model but hardened with beefed up drive parts.

Few last comments. As precaution change pinch roller on G deck models (a worn roller pushes the tape off the guide post by the ACE head). Heads are not available for quite a few models so check for a good picture with no undue noise or dropouts.

If pressed I would say that the best ultimate quality came from the HS1000 - the picture is so detailed that it really does show extra that other machines lose. The AG5260 is as good as the HS1000 on VHS if TBC is not needed (and a bit better if dropouts are a problem). The HS950 with its 3DNR and TBC is really nice too and so is the one I would chose if pushed to take on all tapes. The 3DNR along with good heads and circuitry really does make tapes look good.

Hope this helps and please do ask any questions!

excellent write up - thank you for posting :)
i have a Panny NV-SB900 here - NTSC Z-mech deck only available in Japan
i believe is is very similar internally to the 860/960 PAL decks
TBC and 3DNR can be switched on/off independently
it is one of the best decks ive ever used.

You're more than welcome.

Japan did get some special stuff for the home market. I have a Japanese only Maxell S-VHS tape and it's head and shoulders above the JVC and Fuji ones that were being sold in the UK.

This thread has been really helpful in sorting out which players to look for. Much appreciated.

I'm specifically looking to buy a deck which will support French Secam-L tapes, and was wondering if anyone could clarify whether the following models support this format?

Aiwa MX100
Panasonic AG-W1

The Panasonic appears to but I can't find any sources that say for sure, and cannot find the manual anywhere online.

I've seen conflicting information about the Aiwa. The manual states the VCR is not usable in France, but seems to be because the TV tuner is not compatible but may still play Secam-L tapes.

Any help in clarifying this would be greatly appreciated! Or additional player recommendations would be welcome as well. :) I know both the Panasonic AG-W3 & Samsung SVW-7000W would do the job.

I just spent a lot of money on a 9600
 

I just grabbed a "Used-Like New" condition JVC HR-S9600U from amazon. It was $500.
From what I've read here and several other sites it sounds like the HR-S9600U was the absolute best of the JVCs and they lost some build quality in the 9800/9900/9911. I could have had a 9911 from ebay for $350 but i was less certain of the condition and with the durability/quality of the unit potentially being less than the 9600 I thought this was a smarter decision. Am I an idiot?

Once i finish capturing my tapes digitally, is there any reason to hang on to this? Or should i try to sell it?

Are there any settings I should make myself familiar with that could help me get the most out of my home videos on the 9600?

Not entirely. The 9600, 9800 and 9900 were all about the same. The 9800 and especially 9900 had a much more limited production run. The 9600 was around for most of the late 90s.

The 9911 was indeed lower quality. Not "bad" but not as perfect as these 3.

If you're 100% positive that you'll never need it again, then yes, sell it. Save yourself the eBay fees and use the marketplace forum here.

Read through this: Video Hardware Suggestions; Best VCRs to Convert Tape to Digital

No, not an idiot. :)

Thanks for your feedback.
How can i test that my VCR is performing optimally before I begin transferring? are there any Benchmarks you suggest?
If I need a head cleaning where should I get a cleaner from, I'm scared to buy used but that seems like the only way to get a hold of the recommended 3M/Scotch head cleaners.

VCR and TBC in mind..
 

I'm looking to convert a bunch of VHS (not S-VHS) tapes to DVD. I was going to invest in a JVC SR-S365U and a KEYWEST BVTBC10 TBC. I don't have $500 to spend on this project, but from my research online I believe these two components will be substantially better than just the average VHS player. The JVC I mentioned above doesn't have the remote with it...that shouldn't be a problem should it? My DVD recorder is a Toshiba D-R410. Some of these DVD's I will go ahead and convert to digital video by ripping them to a PC then importing them into Adobe Premiere or something like that, but some of them will just stay on DVD. Your thoughts and suggestions are welcome. Thanks :congrats:

the Keywest BVTBC10 is ok , ive used them
the SR-S365U is ok,and much better than a average consumer deck, but it does not have a TBC
for not much more you can probably find an SR-V10 or SR-V101

never use cleaning tapes - they don't do squat
do a manual cleaning with chamois and alcohol
and remove the auto head cleaner if it is still present

The JVC SR-S365U is an OK player, but AFAIK it has no line-level tbc. Correct me on that if not so. If your tapes are 6-hour jobs, you'll get much better playback with a different line of VCR's.

I have to suggest that capturing old VHS tapes directly to DVD is far from the best way of doing it, but it's certainly convenient. DVD is a lossy format -- after editing or corrections, you'll have to re-encode. That can be a serious quality hit and Premiere isn't the best tool for it.

? ? ? DVD is already a digital format (MPEG2). What are you converting them to?

Thanks for the response. Well, I checked and it looks like the SR V10/V101 will cost me a little over $100 more. Not sure if I can afford that or not...

You're right, the SR-S365U doesn't have TBC. Yeah, some of them are 6 hour tapes but not all of them. I'd like something with good playback for any mode.

I realize that going straight to DVD isn't the absolute best way to do it, I just wanted to confirm that doing it with the setup I originally mentioned would be noticeably better than just using a consumer grade VCR. I have well over 100 tapes to convert, so I just don't have time to import everything directly to the computer and have to jack with burning everything individually.

Also, I didn't clarify very well before. I meant that some portions of a select few tapes I would want a digital file on the computer (but definitely the minority). That's why I mentioned it. I know DVD is digital already :D The main thing here is that I would like better than just consumer VCR quality, but I can't break the bank. :eek:

At this point the only way I see to improve your tape-to-DVD recordings is to resolve the major weak point in your setup -- that is, you have no line TBC. The TBC you mentioned is a full-frame synchronizing tbc, which has no effect on the more visible and annoying problems from line timing errors within frames. The frame TBC will probably help with copy protection. The Toshiba recorder has an elementary line-level cleaner (a sort of "line tbc", better than nothing) but using the frame tbc between your tape player and your recorder will defeat the line tbc in the Toshiba, which will see no errors in the signal from the frame tbc. And the JVC won't handle long-play tapes any better than cheap vcr's will.

Solve both problems with a rebuilt Panasonic AG-1980. Several sources. Here is one, where I purchased two 1980's: http://www.tgrantphoto.com/sales/ind...fessional-vcrs

Ok, thanks for the additional info. So are you saying if I got the Panasonic you mentioned that I wouldn't need any additional external line TBC? Also, would the JVC HR-S7800U be any better for playing the long-play tapes since it has an internal TBC? Or are all JBC's bad at playing those?

the 7800 is a good deck but for EP tapes the Panasonic AG-1980 is best and it has a very powerful TBC
if you only want one VCR i would go with an AG-1980

For some reason I had a brain fart and was thinking that the home movies that I'm wanting to convert were in EP... they are in fact in SP :smack: So I guess the 7800 would be suitable then? Would I need any additional external line TBC with that deck? Also would an old Canopus ADVC-100 be suitable for importing the video to a computer if I go that route? Or will I lose quality doing that? Thanks everyone for your contributions. I appreciate it :cool2:

Hmm, don't understand what you mean by "import" with an ADVC. It doesn't "import" anything it records and re-encodes various source. If you want to record directly to DVD with your Toshiba, you won't need a PC capture card. The Toshiba can make cleaner or just-as-good MPEG2 encodes as the Canopus.

MPEG2 is copied directly to a computer using various software that can properly convert MPEG2 in a VOB container to plain vanilla MPEG2 without re-encoding or re-recording. One such free app is VOB2MPG, there are others. Or you can copy home-made VIDEO_TS folders in their entirety to a PC and play them with the original menus, chapters, etc., if that's what you want. If you want cut short segments, join to other segments, you'll need a smart-rendering MPEG editor on your PC.

Considering your previous statements, not quite sure where the Canopus comes in. If you're thinking that it's better to get VHS into your computer, it's no better that your DR-410 at recording VHS. The 7600 VCR is a good player, but be prepared for some soft images and visible motion blur from its noise reduction. I think the JVC 9600 series was mentioned earlier (?), which is a better and more robust player.

It's just my guess, but I assume you won't mind the darkish-gray edge borders and the head-switching noise at the bottom of VHS recordings.

I am now considering going into the computer with a PC capture card. How big of a difference in quality are we talking about if I do that as opposed to straight through the DVD recorder? I asked about the Canopus because a buddy of mine has one and he said I could borrow it. Good to know that it's no better than my DVD Recorder. I'll scratch that idea. I'm sorry to be so back and forth, but I'm having difficulty making up my mind as I'm on a relatively small budget. I'd love to get the 9600 but I just can't afford to pay $400 for it. I mentioned the JVC SR-S365U earlier because it can be had for about $65. I guess I really just need suggestions for the best way to do this on a budget and get better than consumer grade VCR quality. My apologies for being such a noob. :question:

Well....the "best way", as you just now specified, is not to capture VHS to DVD in the first place. VHS and other analog source are "best" captured to a PC using losslessly compressed YUY2 media. That's out of the question in this case, and you'd need better hardware and a different capture device anyway.

I'd save money, as the Canopus has no tbc despite its hype about it (there's plenty of experience in this and other forums to demonstrate that the mythical Canopus "tbc" either doesn't exist or does nothing). The Toshiba at least has an elementary line and frame sync circuit and a decent MPEG2 encoder. You can live without an external frame tbc if you don't have copy protected tapes. The JVC isn't a prosumer job but it's above the run of cheap VCR's and was designed for conference and teaching use. It's certainly not a '101', 7600, or AG-1980, but it should suffice within your budget. If you want to do any MPEG editing, there are free and paid budget-level smart rendering editors. Transferring a VOB recording to a PC is a matter of free software that does it properly without re-recording or re-encoding, which takes a lot less time than recording a new copy.

And I forgot to add:

While the Toshiba does have some form of tbc/frame sync, it's nowhere near as powerful as a tbc-equipped VCR and external frame TBC. For "problem tapes", the very basic Toshiba tbc might not suffice. Only way to tell is to make a recording and check it out. If you have copy-protected tapes, the Toshiba won't record them without a frame tbc between that and your VCR.

Thanks for the advice! I think that's all the questions I have for now :D

this is a list i have compiled of good NTSC prosumer TBC equipped decks
i have personally owned / tested most of these.

Panasonic AG-5710
Panasonic AG-1970
Panasonic AG-1980
Panasonic NV-SB770
Panasonic NV-SB800
Panasonic NV-SB900
Panasonic NV-SB1000
Marantz MV-8300 (JVC clone)
Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U
GoVideo SDV-650 (JVC clone)
Phillips VR-1000 (JVC clone)
JVC HR-S7500U
JVC HR-S7600U
JVC HR-S7800U
JVC HR-S7900U
JVC HR-S9500U
JVC HR-S9600U
JVC HR-S9800U
JVC HR-S9900U
JVC HR-S9911U
JVC SR-V10U
JVC SR-V101U
JVC SR-VS10U
JVC SR-VS20U
JVC SR-VS30U
JVC HR-DVS1U
JVC HR-DVS2U
JVC HR-DVS3U
JVC SR-MV30
JVC SR-MV40
JVC SR-MV45
JVC SR-MV50
JVC SR-MV55
JVC SR-VDA300U
JVC SR-VD400U
JVC HM-DH30000U
JVC HM-DH40000U
JVC HM-DH5U
JVC HM-DT100U
JVC HM-HDS1U
JVC SR-W5U / HR-W5
JVC SR-W7U / HR-W7

Hi Jarvis, hope you're still around to answer this. I've been revisiting this thread recently, tyring to imprive the information found here. After re-reading your post, I have some questions...

The PAL 9400 and PAL 9500 lack both TBC and Picture Mode (PM) filters, from what I've read. Both types of filters given the JVC its exceptional NR abilities. The TBC has "DNR", but the PM has NR as well. And the NR is the entire reason to own the JVC decks. Can you confirm or deny this?

Good info. Added. Thanks. :congrats:

Good info. Added. Thanks. :congrats:

Correct. The RAM amount is not as important as the RAM style. DDR, for example, is better than plain SDRAM. So 2mb of one can be equal to or better than 4mb on another.

Nope, very useful.

I've been using a 7865EK for 11+ years now, and it's still excellent. :hmm:

I don't see much about the PAL JVC HR-S8700EK deck. From 2000, all the filters and of course the switchable TBV/DNR. I think that there was a 8600 too from the previous generation - that one looked the same but had dynamic drum.

Now, why the JVC SR-VS10U over the JVC SR-VS30U. I am considering this deck as my top pick for transferring VHS/VHS-c via 1394 to my pc. Is this pretty much the best (or at least a pretty good one?)

Can anyone recommend this or another VCR with 1394 to capture from the VHS deck? (I think this is pretty much the only way to capture a vhs tape via firewire)

Thanks.

either is fine
but the 10 is better built - JVC started to cheap out on later decks
the early ones either had more metal/less plastic and/or where built in Japan instead of Malaysia/China
if you dont need the Mini-DV drive then i highly recommend NOT using a combo deck
they have twice as many things to fail and do more often than single purpose decks
probably the best JVC deck with firewire are the HM-DH5U and the HM-DT100U

i dont recommend using the 1394 -
ive tried and result are not as good as an AIW via S-Video
and using firewire means you cant use an inline TBC

The MiniDV/SVHS combo decks likely output DV format video via firewire. The DVHS decks encode to a MPEG-2 Transport Stream with 256kbit MPEG-1 Layer 2 (mp2) audio. I think the bit rate is set at whatever the DVHS record speed is set at. STD mode DVHS recording is 14.1Mbit/sec.