VCR and TBC in mind..
I'm looking to convert a bunch of VHS (not S-VHS) tapes to DVD. I was going to invest in a JVC SR-S365U and a KEYWEST BVTBC10 TBC. I don't have $500 to spend on this project, but from my research online I believe these two components will be substantially better than just the average VHS player. The JVC I mentioned above doesn't have the remote with it...that shouldn't be a problem should it? My DVD recorder is a Toshiba D-R410. Some of these DVD's I will go ahead and convert to digital video by ripping them to a PC then importing them into Adobe Premiere or something like that, but some of them will just stay on DVD. Your thoughts and suggestions are welcome. Thanks :congrats:
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the Keywest BVTBC10 is ok , ive used them
the SR-S365U is ok,and much better than a average consumer deck, but it does not have a TBC for not much more you can probably find an SR-V10 or SR-V101 never use cleaning tapes - they don't do squat do a manual cleaning with chamois and alcohol and remove the auto head cleaner if it is still present |
The JVC SR-S365U is an OK player, but AFAIK it has no line-level tbc. Correct me on that if not so. If your tapes are 6-hour jobs, you'll get much better playback with a different line of VCR's.
I have to suggest that capturing old VHS tapes directly to DVD is far from the best way of doing it, but it's certainly convenient. DVD is a lossy format -- after editing or corrections, you'll have to re-encode. That can be a serious quality hit and Premiere isn't the best tool for it. Quote:
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I realize that going straight to DVD isn't the absolute best way to do it, I just wanted to confirm that doing it with the setup I originally mentioned would be noticeably better than just using a consumer grade VCR. I have well over 100 tapes to convert, so I just don't have time to import everything directly to the computer and have to jack with burning everything individually. Also, I didn't clarify very well before. I meant that some portions of a select few tapes I would want a digital file on the computer (but definitely the minority). That's why I mentioned it. I know DVD is digital already :D The main thing here is that I would like better than just consumer VCR quality, but I can't break the bank. :eek: |
At this point the only way I see to improve your tape-to-DVD recordings is to resolve the major weak point in your setup -- that is, you have no line TBC. The TBC you mentioned is a full-frame synchronizing tbc, which has no effect on the more visible and annoying problems from line timing errors within frames. The frame TBC will probably help with copy protection. The Toshiba recorder has an elementary line-level cleaner (a sort of "line tbc", better than nothing) but using the frame tbc between your tape player and your recorder will defeat the line tbc in the Toshiba, which will see no errors in the signal from the frame tbc. And the JVC won't handle long-play tapes any better than cheap vcr's will.
Solve both problems with a rebuilt Panasonic AG-1980. Several sources. Here is one, where I purchased two 1980's: http://www.tgrantphoto.com/sales/ind...fessional-vcrs |
Ok, thanks for the additional info. So are you saying if I got the Panasonic you mentioned that I wouldn't need any additional external line TBC? Also, would the JVC HR-S7800U be any better for playing the long-play tapes since it has an internal TBC? Or are all JBC's bad at playing those?
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the 7800 is a good deck but for EP tapes the Panasonic AG-1980 is best and it has a very powerful TBC
if you only want one VCR i would go with an AG-1980 |
For some reason I had a brain fart and was thinking that the home movies that I'm wanting to convert were in EP... they are in fact in SP :smack: So I guess the 7800 would be suitable then? Would I need any additional external line TBC with that deck? Also would an old Canopus ADVC-100 be suitable for importing the video to a computer if I go that route? Or will I lose quality doing that? Thanks everyone for your contributions. I appreciate it :cool2:
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Hmm, don't understand what you mean by "import" with an ADVC. It doesn't "import" anything it records and re-encodes various source. If you want to record directly to DVD with your Toshiba, you won't need a PC capture card. The Toshiba can make cleaner or just-as-good MPEG2 encodes as the Canopus.
MPEG2 is copied directly to a computer using various software that can properly convert MPEG2 in a VOB container to plain vanilla MPEG2 without re-encoding or re-recording. One such free app is VOB2MPG, there are others. Or you can copy home-made VIDEO_TS folders in their entirety to a PC and play them with the original menus, chapters, etc., if that's what you want. If you want cut short segments, join to other segments, you'll need a smart-rendering MPEG editor on your PC. Considering your previous statements, not quite sure where the Canopus comes in. If you're thinking that it's better to get VHS into your computer, it's no better that your DR-410 at recording VHS. The 7600 VCR is a good player, but be prepared for some soft images and visible motion blur from its noise reduction. I think the JVC 9600 series was mentioned earlier (?), which is a better and more robust player. It's just my guess, but I assume you won't mind the darkish-gray edge borders and the head-switching noise at the bottom of VHS recordings. |
I am now considering going into the computer with a PC capture card. How big of a difference in quality are we talking about if I do that as opposed to straight through the DVD recorder? I asked about the Canopus because a buddy of mine has one and he said I could borrow it. Good to know that it's no better than my DVD Recorder. I'll scratch that idea. I'm sorry to be so back and forth, but I'm having difficulty making up my mind as I'm on a relatively small budget. I'd love to get the 9600 but I just can't afford to pay $400 for it. I mentioned the JVC SR-S365U earlier because it can be had for about $65. I guess I really just need suggestions for the best way to do this on a budget and get better than consumer grade VCR quality. My apologies for being such a noob. :question:
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Well....the "best way", as you just now specified, is not to capture VHS to DVD in the first place. VHS and other analog source are "best" captured to a PC using losslessly compressed YUY2 media. That's out of the question in this case, and you'd need better hardware and a different capture device anyway.
I'd save money, as the Canopus has no tbc despite its hype about it (there's plenty of experience in this and other forums to demonstrate that the mythical Canopus "tbc" either doesn't exist or does nothing). The Toshiba at least has an elementary line and frame sync circuit and a decent MPEG2 encoder. You can live without an external frame tbc if you don't have copy protected tapes. The JVC isn't a prosumer job but it's above the run of cheap VCR's and was designed for conference and teaching use. It's certainly not a '101', 7600, or AG-1980, but it should suffice within your budget. If you want to do any MPEG editing, there are free and paid budget-level smart rendering editors. Transferring a VOB recording to a PC is a matter of free software that does it properly without re-recording or re-encoding, which takes a lot less time than recording a new copy. |
And I forgot to add:
While the Toshiba does have some form of tbc/frame sync, it's nowhere near as powerful as a tbc-equipped VCR and external frame TBC. For "problem tapes", the very basic Toshiba tbc might not suffice. Only way to tell is to make a recording and check it out. If you have copy-protected tapes, the Toshiba won't record them without a frame tbc between that and your VCR. |
Thanks for the advice! I think that's all the questions I have for now :D
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this is a list i have compiled of good NTSC prosumer TBC equipped decks
i have personally owned / tested most of these. Panasonic AG-5710 Panasonic AG-1970 Panasonic AG-1980 Panasonic NV-SB770 Panasonic NV-SB800 Panasonic NV-SB900 Panasonic NV-SB1000 Marantz MV-8300 (JVC clone) Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U GoVideo SDV-650 (JVC clone) Phillips VR-1000 (JVC clone) JVC HR-S7500U JVC HR-S7600U JVC HR-S7800U JVC HR-S7900U JVC HR-S9500U JVC HR-S9600U JVC HR-S9800U JVC HR-S9900U JVC HR-S9911U JVC SR-V10U JVC SR-V101U JVC SR-VS10U JVC SR-VS20U JVC SR-VS30U JVC HR-DVS1U JVC HR-DVS2U JVC HR-DVS3U JVC SR-MV30 JVC SR-MV40 JVC SR-MV45 JVC SR-MV50 JVC SR-MV55 JVC SR-VDA300U JVC SR-VD400U JVC HM-DH30000U JVC HM-DH40000U JVC HM-DH5U JVC HM-DT100U JVC HM-HDS1U JVC SR-W5U / HR-W5 JVC SR-W7U / HR-W7 |
Hi Jarvis, hope you're still around to answer this. I've been revisiting this thread recently, tyring to imprive the information found here. After re-reading your post, I have some questions...
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I don't see much about the PAL JVC HR-S8700EK deck. From 2000, all the filters and of course the switchable TBV/DNR. I think that there was a 8600 too from the previous generation - that one looked the same but had dynamic drum.
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Can anyone recommend this or another VCR with 1394 to capture from the VHS deck? (I think this is pretty much the only way to capture a vhs tape via firewire) Thanks. |
either is fine
but the 10 is better built - JVC started to cheap out on later decks the early ones either had more metal/less plastic and/or where built in Japan instead of Malaysia/China if you dont need the Mini-DV drive then i highly recommend NOT using a combo deck they have twice as many things to fail and do more often than single purpose decks probably the best JVC deck with firewire are the HM-DH5U and the HM-DT100U i dont recommend using the 1394 - ive tried and result are not as good as an AIW via S-Video and using firewire means you cant use an inline TBC |
The MiniDV/SVHS combo decks likely output DV format video via firewire. The DVHS decks encode to a MPEG-2 Transport Stream with 256kbit MPEG-1 Layer 2 (mp2) audio. I think the bit rate is set at whatever the DVHS record speed is set at. STD mode DVHS recording is 14.1Mbit/sec.
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