FYI: I'm working on a project for Original Trilogy myself, through a long-time member there, but I'm not saying anything else. It's taken years, and I hope to have it done by the end of this one finally.

(If I mentioned what it was, nobody would ever leave me alone! :mad4:)

Are there any comparisons or can lordsmurf chime in about the Elgato Game Capture? the eyeTV? Hauppauge 1212 HD-PVR? anything really..

the company seems to market themselves as providing easy to use hardware, not necessarily quality.

markatisu used the Elgato products quite a bit, back in the day. He was a member here years ago. I saw his work, and the capture looked good. That was an older model, so I can't/won't say much about the current ones. It's worth looking into, at least. If I needed to capture on a Mac, I would start there. I prefer 4:2:0 MPEG captures, at minimum.

EyeTv and 1212 use the same terrible converter. They work OK but by many accounts have a one year lifespan.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8e...it?usp=sharing

I uploaded a short clip. Download the file to watch the original quality, the youtube player has processed the viewable version. It hasn't been deinterlaced or converted from capture, just split via AVIdemux. Looks a little bright but the settings are adjustable.

Again, I am not saying that this is better than an uncompressed capture, but I believe it to be a big step up from DV.

Thanks premiumcapture for your input. I went ahead and did more research last night and it seems like the game capture is favored over the canopus (atleast @ digitalfaq). I went ahead and ordered the Elgato Game Capture.

Before i send back the canopus, i'll capture some clips to reference the quality of the canopus vs the game capture.

Once you get it, test it against the canopus before you decide to return it just to make sure, but I am pretty sure you will be happier with it. If you keep it, get the retro adapter for S-Video ($10 on the Elgato site).

If you end up going the uncompressed route later on, you can always get a $40 capture device, but the game capture will let you do everything in Mac if you want it to, plus you will be able to capture anything over HDMI/Component/etc...

It has its own software, no VDub support for capture, but you can still bring the files in to VirtualDub after capturing. Files run something like 6GB/hour at most at max bitrate.

What capture device is $40 and produces uncompressed?

Perhaps i'm misunderstanding terminology, but isn't uncompressed better?

Uncompressed is better but more drive space. The ATI 600 USB that LS uses or the VC500 that I use for important stuff are roughly $30-$50 new or used. Not sure if you're using an iMac or MBP, but my MBP with parallels can handle the VC500 for uncompressed:

http://www.amazon.com/Diamond-VC500-...keywords=vc500

Note that there is a Mac version but it will not work with VirtualDub; the Mac software it comes with uses terrible compression. I own this one and it works.

The difference between the canopus, game capture hd, and the vc500/ati 600 is chroma subsampling and intraframe compression. DV is the worst at 4:1:1 and 20 year old compression techniques, the Game Capture HD works at 4:2:0 (like a dvd or iTunes movie) and applies compression through the newer H.264, which is a significant upgrade from DV, and finally a compatible USB capture device for Windows that captures 4:2:2 with no intraframe compression.

The VC500 at least I know will work in Parallels on a MBP with Mavericks. I suggested the Game Capture HD since you started with an all Mac workflow, which is definitely not a bad choice, but for getting the absolute best out of every tape you need one of those instead.

wow I always assumed those little USB adapters were shit.

do you have any comparisons between the vc500 and the game capture?

also I was recommended something that is $100 more and produces a worse capture? what's up with that..

not a bad assumption, most of them are. I dont have any raw vc500 caps to share at the moment, but the decent usb sticks with virtualdub will basically copy everything it sees output from the VCR. Different USBs use different comb filters and have other subtleties, but the VC500 is the last acceptable usb capture device IMO that is still produced new.

the game capture HD is $100 more, but these two devices dont work the same way. the usb stick offloads all the input for the PC to process, which means poor computers/drives will not cap right, while the elgato has a built in encoder that does all the capturing outside of the computer and simply copies the postprocessed data. the device was made to capture HDMI gaming, but is compatible with older game systems for youtube uploads, and because of its HDMI build, it can capture at bitrates that will make the actual capture very closely resemble the uncompressed copy at much better data rates. it beats out all the vbr MPEG-2 captures I have seen. If you had no PC access, I wouldnt hesitate to recommend it, I have used it for a while for various tapes and have been happy with the results.

You will always get more out of an uncompressed capture, but capturing with the Elgato is a prick in quality compared to DV.

Whatever you decide to do, a timebase corrector is recommended. I use the AVT-8710 most of the time but I do have a TBC-1000 that needs refreshing.

Neither the AVT-8710 nor the TBC-1000 will do very much to correct analog line timing errors. Each of those tbc's adds undesirable effects that are unnecessary unless some full-frame related problems exist with the source. I believe the O.P. is using a JVC with built-in line tbc. What would the full-frame tbc's be for?

This appears to be a pretty active thread right now.
So please read this: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/news...ead-reply.html -- we need feedback on it ASAP.
Thanks.

FYI: Just read that last reply -- and it's correct. External TBCs do little for "line timing" (horizontal jitter). You need internal TBCs in a VCR, or a passthrough deck like the Panasonic DMR-ES10/15/20/25.

I have a JVC SR-V10u, which has TBC.

i'm more interested in the usb device now. I have a decently upgraded iMac, so it should be able to run fine.

What did you mean by this?


I believe we have similar workstations so what is your workflow with these devices? Can they capture in VirtualDub via Parallels?

I realize this. My only thoughts are that since these are commercial tapes, Macrovision might come into play and cause capture problems.

With the Elgato you could in practice stay in Mac 100%. You can edit the MP4s in VirtualDub if you want but it would let you edit them if you wanted.

The difference between high bitrate mp4 and uncompressed is much smaller than uncompressed 4:2:2 vs. DV. Since your ultimate goal is to go to YouTube anyways, much of what you lose in the initial capture you will end up losing in the end for upload anyways. It is always better to start with a higher quality source, but I would argue for your purposes the difference is negligible. If you wanted fully uncompressed tape backups, the VC500 would let you do that but the Elgato would not.

For this, I would suggest capturing first, filtering, final touches/color correction in FCP X and export from there. I would personally filter in Windows but everything else in Mac will offer good results.

One little nitpick with the Elgato - it will try to automatically deinterlace after every capture. The workaround is to go to the folder and delete all the other files other than the actual .mp4. It does this because it assumes the video is for youtube. A small annoyance, but one to be aware of.

Most of my audience will come from youtube, yes. but i still want a file to offer for download. I assumed before this could be the same file. But just want to say that this won't just be for youtube. No one has spent the time to archive these tapes before, and since i'm building an archive for this niche i might as well try and get the best copies.. i can achieve.


For my workflow. I'd like to capture in VirtualDub as it gave me better results than FCPx. From there i'd like to filter and correct the capture with AviSynth / VirtualDub then export the final copy from there.

Is this possible with the Vc500? the Elgato Gamecapture HD?

it's a bit ridiculous that i was recommended to buy a whole new set up but not give a $30 device a try...

here's a youtube comparing the VC 500 vs Elgato Game Capture HD. Yes i understand it's youtube and all the difference factors involved but it looks to be in favor of the Game Capture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAYOwZ1H-q8


PS here is a comparison for the lols (not real)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLzuU60Tyik

Most people here don't use Mac, and if you run a setup only in OS X, the Elgato is hands down the best option. Even with Parallels, much of the typical capture hardware used isn't compatible with either its drivers or the Mac ports. The VC500 is the only one I have been happy with, but I honestly think no one knew/tried it.

Also, I did mention it on page 1 :)

Very true premium. Just since no one else chimed in i didn't know if they were ok devices. But as i started researching these different devices and working with a Mac, i keep finding you in random digitalfaq threads ;)

here is the canopus vs the game capture as promised. I'm not sure if the game capture's quality is 'better' but it's definitely different. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this.

Here are some screenshots. One source is from the elgato game capture using the 'best' settings to capture. The canopus was captured in virtualdub with uncompressed avi. Screenshots taken in VLC

Canopus
Attachment 3997

Elgato
Attachment 3999

Canopus-2
Attachment 3998

Elgato-2
Attachment 4000


Here are two small clips via dropbox.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rfhof94rxs9co3j/caponus.avi
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kkgs8s4829ce9zb/elgato.mp4

I touched on it briefly before, but in order to avoid the Elgato from deinterlacing, you need to close the program after you hit stop recording, go into the file folder, and delete everything except for the largest file (MP4). Did you do that for this recording?