Workflow with CDM630, ADVC100?
 

Hi,

I'm new to forums and wasn't sure how to create a new thread.(got there in the end)
I'm based in the UK
I used to convert tapes to DVD for people and achieved it through MPEG2 Capture using DV Storm 2 /ADVC 100
I put everything to bed 10 years ago and recently retired and would like to convert my own tapes (Vhs/Digital 8/Hi 8/Video 8 /Mini DV?
I don't have the DV storms anymore only:

I saved a couple of SVhs JVC decks
ADVC 100
CDM630 standards converter.
Digital 8 Camera backward compatable + mini Dv cameras.

I have family in Ireland, America and Canada and would like to share the family tapes digitally. (not go through DVD the route)
My thinking was to convert to H264.
My workflow idea was:

JVC Svhs/cameras --CDM630 (convert PAL to NTSC -unit acts as a TBC; as my understanding from what I've read is the CDM630 only acts as a TBC on conversion)
Connect CDM630 to a Black Magic Design Ultra Studio 4K (That encodes the signal to H264/265- (I have a 4K Video Camera that would use this unit so its not solely for tape conversion )
Above processed through a Thunderbolt compliant Windows PC?

I WILL APOLOGISE FOR MY IGNORANCE if the above idea insults your intelligence.(but there's no harm in asking a question even if its at the expense of my street creed going down the pan)

No need to convert anything, Your capture card should handle both PAL and NTSC. The TBC you have is composite only, Use it only if you really need it, You want your workflow to stay in S-Video all the way.

D8 and miniDV have a different workflow using firewire and sclive or WinDV.

The MPEG capture days were fun, had its own considerations. But modern displays showcase those flaws so easily now. Referring to DVD-Video spec, not broadcast/BD depths.

DV>MPEG was fine for PAL. Decent method way back when. (NTSC was the problem.)

Saving the JVC decks, good decision!
Which exact models?
How is current condition? Remember, used or not, gravity takes its toll on the transports, misalignment happens.

That CDM-630 is extremely crappy PAL<>NTSC, do not use it. Literally some of the worse conversion quality, using 1990s methods. Most modern TVs understand both PAL and NTSC now, and the players internally bob convert/repeat, maybe some blending for the 25>30. While not the best, that is better than the old destructive conversion of 630 type devices (Sima/Cypress, mostly). If you truly want the best conversion, this isn't too difficult with true frame realign (with audio time compress with 4% attenuation).

Your workflow is missing frame TBC. While unusually excellent PAL footage can sometimes (rarely!) squeak by with just the JVC line TBC (or D8 line TBC) and the DV box (which lacks any TBC of any kind), that BM card will choke extremely easily. It's essentially the opposite of the DV card, in terms of stability. Lack of frame TBC almost always creates issues, mostly dropped frames and audio sync errors, though there are more issues. At worst, using a TBC(ish) item is required, such as ES10/15, though a few more models are available in PAL (but not just any random Panasonic).

Nothing you've asked should insult anybody, nor should you ever get such as response here. It's not Youtube or Twitter.

CDM-630 looks like the AVTool but composite only, Isn't it a frame TBC?

The CDM-630 does not contain a TBC. I confirmed that years ago, twice.

Hi,

Thanks for replying - can you advise why S video?

-- merged --

Hi,
Thanks for the reply Lordsmurf,

I have:
JVC-HR DV S30
JVC-SR VS 20
Panasonic NV HD 675
Sony EV S1000E-PAL-Hi 8
Sony EV C400E - PAL - Hi 8
( All will be serviced prior to use )

To capture to MPEG 2 back in the day was pretty straightforward, the card ( DV Storm) did what it said on the box
It seems a lot more complicated now.

I can obtain the Panasonic E10, given you said the BM Card would choke up, could you advise of another card to do the capture
robust enough to deal with my project?

Thanks Tom

Because it's better.

Ref the video capture card - I don’t have the card anymore.
The last time I captured with the DV Storm - I captured 30 hours of video and had to recapture using a USB device becsuse I experienced audio going out of sync with the video.
The card had never failed me but I couldn’t get an answer to why it did it:
Faulty Card?
Hard Drive ?
Motherboard?
So I wrapped everything up 10 years ago.
Now I’m retired with time on my hands, I would like to take up the challenge of conversion.
The only time I was ever happy was when I was working with video;?it was a big part of my life.

I really appreciate everyone’s help on this forum- it is priceless

Thanks

This was caused due to lack of frame TBC. That's likely all it was. You do not have a TBC in your gear, and this is the main issue you run into without TBCs in use.

Old joke: That's a great job if you qualify!

All you need is good gear here. Not wrong gear, not incomplete workflow.

Standard workflow =
VCR > TBC > capture card
Not just any random unit, but ones suggested for quality and performance. So:

JVC S-VHS VCR with line TBC
> DataVideo/Cypress type frame TBC
> specific capture cards for source and destination OS, generally certain ATI/Pinnacle type cards

I never intended video to be a career, nor even a hobby for that matter. It just happened. I actually tried to get into other hobbies, other careers, but kept getting sucked back into video. I need to find my "video happy place" again. I think the most fun I had was DVD hobby days, as menus and cases involved artistic creativity. I miss that. Everything is streaming now, nobody needs DVD cases, DVD artwork, or even on-screen artwork (thumbnail and text, and go!)

:)

tried to get into other hobbies, other careers, but kept getting sucked back into video. I need to find my "video happy place" again. I think the most fun I had was DVD hobby days, as menus and cases involved artistic creativity. I miss that. Everything is streaming now, nobody needs DVD cases, DVD artwork, or even on-screen artwork (thumbnail and text, and go!)

They were my halcyon days as well- I did work for lots of people - been to more weddings by way of video conversions
than most people in a triple lifetime. Sent conversions to Canada/ USA/ Belize/ France.
It filled my life as a very full filling hobby. I did it with my neighbour who was one of my greatest mentors, Senior in years to me and taught me so much about PC builds and system problems. The money we made just got reinvested back into buying better equipment.
My mentor shared his knowledge and I really appreciate what this forum does as it’s become my surrogate mentor- the knowledge base is just of the highest quality.

Thanks

Being there too, Early 2000's, Authoring DVDs and making menus and disc labels, I got into HD quickly though before it was main stream and spent a lot of money, I had to have a way to record Dishnet HD programing, I had the 6000 MPEG-2 HD receiver, their first model, that I've sent to a company called NextcomeWireless to add a mini USB port to tap to the MPEG-2 stream and use their app to stream to computer, the mod cost $800, the earliest HD capture for me, Along with that I had a 3.4GHz hyper threading Toshiba laptop back in 2004 for $1800, I would then record the HD movies from hard drive into DVD-R DL in data mode, most movies fit into one or two 8.4GB discs or a combination of dual layer, single layer and even double sided discs, This was way before HD-DVD and Blu-ray. Crazy but fun times.

It’s seems we all went through the baptism of fire with learning how to create DVD’s and Author them.
I liked the technical challenge and I’m not artistically creative but the DVD Authoring gave me a way to be creative.
It sounds like you were well ahead of the game and pretty technically minded given what you did above.
with the HD capture.
My journey started with squeezing video onto a CD using Cinepak 1 ( hopefully spelt the codec right)
Which led to creating DVD’s.
The challenge of analogue capture in the 21st Century proving very steep with legacy
devices.
I was going to buy a MAC + BMD Ultrastudio as the blurb said, “connects to Video decks” so I thought I’d found the Holy Grail - it’s looking like if I follow that path, metaphorically I’m on the Titanic.
Lordsmurf has advised the workflow but the external TBC is going to be hard to locate and at a exorbitant cost.
So I feel I’m up the creek without a paddle.
I’ve learnt so much over the past few weeks, I never knew the true science of what I did years ago, I suppose it was blissful ignorance, but I never had one DVD returned to me that failed or was out of sync.
I still have my old PC’s running Windows XP, which as an OS was IMHO stable and brilliant.
I also have a PC running Windows 7
I’ve seen a “Pinnacle Studio MovieBox 710 USB Video Capture Device”
Is this the way to go?

Thanks again 🍀
I’ve seen a, “

Much of the trouble with capturing analog video nowadays is due to 2 reasons:

First, Modern operating systems moved away from drivers that supported analog video capture over the limited USB 2.0 bandwith, Back in the day it was done in 2 ways to overcome the limited CPU and data transfer port limitation, one way is to encode to mpeg-2 inside the capture device and stream low bandwidth mpeg-2 over USB, the second way is to encode to DV and stream over firewire using a DV capture device, Lossless was possible too via a PCI/PCIe card taking advantage of the PCI/PCIe high speed bus, but very few people were interested in lossless for SD back then.

Second, most capture devices made nowadays are not actually designed for tape based video signals, they lack basic signal stabilisation that legacy capture cards/devices had, Albeit not TBC, but they were very tollerant to weak analog video signals, Modern crappy capture cards/devices have none of that what so ever, they are designed for clean analog signals such as game consoles, DVD players, CCTV cameras and so on.

If you can get a legacy capture device under Windows 7 with a fully functioning VCR your chances of having a successuful capture are very high assuming your tapes are still in decent condition.

Hi,

Thanks for adding to my knowledge base.

What would Legacy device would you choose ?

Thanks Tom 🍀

It depends on exact OS.
There are several quality USB options for newer OS, and PCI/AGP for older hardware and OS.

In general, specific ATI/Pinnacle type are suggested for USB, and certain ATI AIW for legacy PCI/AGP.

I’ve seen a “Pinnacle Studio MovieBox 710 USB Video Capture Device” which was mentioned in one of the threads - does that have a reasonable reputation?

Thanks Tom 🍀

Don't get ahead of yourself, don't knee-jerk random buy stuff without further deeper research. That cards has versions, and some are not what you want. And even when that card is a good version, it's not for all scenarios. You need to proceed more carefully. It's not a loaf of bread, where details don't matter much.

Good evening Lordsmurf, ( UK 23:35pm)

Thanks for the wise words, it’s so easy to get lost in the woods, the trick is to take yourself above the woods
where the route becomes clearer, getting to that point is a long way off at the moment.
Let the journey begin 🍀

Thanks Tom

I would say give the Pinnacle Studio MovieBox 710-USB a try under Win 7, Not sure what model that is but there few that are MPEG-2 locked, Which means you can't output lossless AVI out of them, Carfully check the specifications.

Hi,

Thanks for the feedback on the card- “nothing ventured nothing gained” as the saying goes.
But still a lot of research to do as Lordsmurf pointed out.

Thanks Tom🍀