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-- merged -- Forgot to mention, you might have overlooked the forum's basic VirtualDuib-AVI capture setup. http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/vid...virtualdub.htm. If you have problems, post the details. Start with short captures, a few minutes, then look it over. When I started out I made 20-minute test captures to get the hang of things. One of the first things you'll note about this old guide is that it discusses noise reduction and cropping/sizing. Don't even try it, those old filters are way out of date. You can do much better in post processing. A quick capture or two will tell you a great deal, and you can post samples here for evaluation. |
Hi all -
I am finally typing this on my newly installed XP computer with SP2 although it has been a right pain to get it this far as MS have withdrawn support for XP and that means all previous Knowledge Base CAB files have also been removed from their site :mad4: Anyways - now that I have XP running and ATI Catalyst installed, I need to do some basic captures - shall I go ahead and install VirtualDub too ? Also, I know that this isn't a Windows support forum but I have bought a 3TB HDD but Windows can only see 746.5Gb of it making the rest rather useless - any advice on how I can get XP to recognise the larger amounts ? I read somewhere that XP only supports a maximum of 2TB so I might have to do a 2TB then a 1TB format but that would still be better than 746.5Gb ! Thanks for all your help in getting me this far - really looking forward to doing some cool captures ! edit- Sorry forgot to mention - what is HYDRAVISION and do I need to enable it ? |
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It's for multiple monitors. You don't need (or want) that on a capture box. |
Well, last things first:
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Personally I never use a drive or partition larger than 500MB, although I have some external 1TB drives for storage. For capture and even for many post processing/encoding projects, I wouldn't advise using an active, frequently used drive for that much storage. The thought of losing 1 to 3 TB of video work due to hard drive blips from daily operational stress would force me to choose either a quick poison or several years of post traumatic therapy. |
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Hi all - thanks for all your replies. I have now set up the card to the best of my abilities following the instructions given and I have got partially there but only have a BW screen with half and half of the picture visible (see attachment). I am connected with composite source but the results are the same with S-Video so I am now not sure where else I am going wrong...any advice on what I should check further ?
Also forgot to mention that the tape I am playing is LP and I don't yet have a TBC - could this be the reason ? Edit - I have just tried a SP tape and the same is happening so not sure what I am doing wrong...do I need to do something special for PAL ? |
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Try checking the film speed. Your capture is 15 frames per second. Quote:
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[EDIT] If you're thinking of deintelacing this tape later, forget it. The movie is telecined. It looks like hard-coded 3:2 pulldown, so likely it's NTSC. |
Hi Sanlyn,
Apologies for not providing all the information. This movie is in PAL and recorded from terrestrial TV (most of my content is this way but most is in SP not LP). Yes I knew that S-video is better than composite. I was only trying different inputs to see whether composite was behaving the same as S-Video and it seems that it is. I have also tried increasing the frame rate to 30fps and tried varying screen size/resolution but this hasn't improved the situation. Could there be a fault with the card? |
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in VDub capture, under the "Device" top menu, the ATI chip should be the selected capture device. Under the "Video" top menu use "Preview" mode, not overlay. If you're capturing at 640x480 you can use Overlay if you want, but it's slower than "Preview". Click "Video" -> "Capture pin...." and see what's in the "Stream format" window. The "Video standard" for the UK and Ireland is "PAL_I". You might also see the choices listed as "PAL_BDHIG" or similar. In any case, choose the PAL format that has the letter "I" in it. If there is no PAL listing with an alpha letter in it, just choose "PAL" if it's there. PAL is 25fps. Your Mitsubishi player is hopefully not set to play and output SVHS automatically. If it is, either turn off SVHS output or set output to VHS, or whatever you have for settings on the Mitsubishi player to play and output plain vanilla VHS. A note about your 640x480 frame size: If you ever want to make shareable DVD or BluRay, 640x480 is not allowed. Just wanted you to be aware that you'll be limited in that regard. The usual 720x576 PAL frame gives you more pixels to work with, more leeway in post processing (did you notice the thick border on the left?), and can always be encoded for 4:3 or 16:9 display aspect ratio by any encoder anywhere. [ADDED] Which reminds me... "Video" -> "Capture pin" -"Video standard" entry space refers to the TV tuner, not specifically to composite/s-video input. If the Video Standard reads "NTSC_M" and has no other choices, it means the card has an NTSC TV tuner. If it says some version of "PAL", it has a PAL TV tuner. You should still be able to change the frame rate to 25fps and the frame size to 640x480 (or 720x576) in the other dialog windows. The TV tuner isn't used from VCR composite or s-video. Ensure that your external capture wiring is secure. After a little use, that purple ATI junction box's connectors can get a little loose, so make sure everything is shoved in tight and secured to the back of the card. Your AVI sample didn't have any audio, either, just noise. Your audio source should be the sound card, not the ATI card. |
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Thanks Sanlyn - for some reason in the VirtualDub package there are two exe files - VirtualDubMod.exe and Virtualdub.exe - I was running VirtualDubMod.exe which runs v1.5.10.2 of VirtualDub instead of 1.9.11 so I could not find Capture Pin under the Video menu.
Anyways - I am now running the correct version and have done another capture checking all settings but I still get the same output (see attached running on S-Video output). I also do not get any PAL option under Capture Pin (see second attachment) - I am not sure whether the card is incorrectly identifying the stream as NTSC ? I think I am nearly there but need some help to get me across the line :) Thanks for all your help and expert advice |
The video standard is actually set under Capture Filter, not Capture Pin.
You should be capturing any PAL source with a frame height of 576, not 480, by the way. Most (all?) capture devices lock the frame height selection to the video standard, so you likely have no choice once PAL is chosen. Capturing 480 when the source is 576 will either crop the image, as you have seen, or corrupt the interlace structure by skipping lines or resizing. |
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I can capture audio now - just changed the audio input setting :)
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Did you get the video capture working? I'm on mobile so I can't check the sample.
I edited post #90 a couple times so you may not have seen the up-to-date version. |
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YES - you were right @msgohen - I set it to PAL-I and it works but the colours seem a bit rich...see attached
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The second tab of Capture Filter should be Video Proc Amp, with various options for you to adjust, including Saturation.
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Thanks @Msgohen - I modified the saturation but still not happy with the grainy quality of the colour / general picture quality. Please see attached when you get a chance....is there anything I can do to improve bearing in mind that I do not currently have a TBC...
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Don't waste time trying to make anything over 2tb work in XP. Learn to live with a 2tb limit. Best case is the drive works crappily, worst case is it loses its formatting (thus destroying all data on the drive). Don't risk it.
I need to update the VirtualDub guide. Trying to set all NTSC/PAL settings, in all 3 locations, can be easy to overlook -- even when you've been using it for 15 years like I have! (Oops.) In that last sample, color seems fine. It's standard VHS quality. It just needs mild restoration in Avisynth or VirtualDub. What VCR was used? I'm actually more concerned by what appears to be dropped frames. Was that sample from the front of a test capture, or after a few seconds in the middle of the capture? VirtualDubMod is in our zip/install because it has a narrow usefulness for some types MPEG restoration work. |
Thanks for the advice lordsmurf. Will take note of the 2Tb limit and format accordingly. Can I just ask how other members manage with the enormous file sizes? Are the lossless files stored temporarily then deleted after restoration or are they archived permanently? If they are archived permanently then how are they stored? I would guess you would need lots of PB's if you had say 100 odd tapes?
It would be good to update the VDub guide and explain what the various files are in the rar package and when to use each one or perhaps include a readme within the rar? How do I use VDub to restore? The brightness is lacking and the general quality is grainy - can this be cleaned up? Are there any instructions or beginners guides? The VCR was a Mitsubishi HS-M1000 (SVHS compatible but the tapes are standard non SVHS). Also please note that I do not yet have a TBC, would this improve the missing dropped frames? Not sure what you mean by front of a test capture or after a few seconds in the middle of the capture? I simply hit capture while the tape was continuously playing and then hit stop capture afterwards. How can you tell that there are dropped frames? |
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Below is an image of the original Test3.avi frame 30 (left) -vs- an after-filter version of the same frame (right). http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/atta...1&d=1470534529 I did very little color correction, but gamma and highlight extension required work with the gradation curve and ColorMill filters in VirtualDub, and I did some edge cleaning and mild sharpening in Avisynth. Raising the midtones and highlights without major changes in black level did a lot to improve perception of the original brightness levels and hues -- a trick that many learned from free internet photo/video correction tutorials for Adobe and Vegas. Much of the noise you mention, however, is due to the dropped and inserted frames mentioned below. Quote:
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Otherwise, frankly, it was pretty good for a first workable capture. I'd stay away from strong denoisers with this tape, however, as dnr or other filtering in your player (it has dnr?) looks as if it's causing some posterizing or motion smear. But more normal frame flow might clear that up. |
g;day all,new here.[edit] i hope this is the right place to post] i have been following this thread with much interest as i also have been converting my vhs tapes to digital via sony hi8 video camera .i;ve been trying to capture losslessly with vdub and have come to the [my]conclusion that what goes through the hi 8 can only come out as dv video is this correct?. so one of my ?,is how do i capture [lossless] from my old analogue panasonic vid camera that still amazingly works after 5-6 years of no use and no charge..i have a adapter cartridge which in can play in vhs player [panasonic] if it still works and a panasonic dvd recorder. i did a backup of tapes years ago by playing from video camera onto tv and recording tv onto dvd recorder then burnt to discs,ripped these to computer to cut and trim with nero then burn back to dvd for archiving . lots of losses, i know ! . what is the best way for me to capture with what i have or should i buy a capture card.. this seems to be a very helpful forum so i have made a small donation for your troubles...thanks
Admin edit: Answered here: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...-digital8.html |
@Sanlyn - thanks again.
I must be doing something wrong then because last night I attempted a capture for approximately 16 minutes and it turned out to be 21Gb - why is it so large and how can I reduce the file size ? If this is the case then extrapolating this data would mean a 3 hour tape would be approx 236Gb, does that sound right? Thanks for editing my example, it looks better with your filters - please could you provide some brief instructions on how you achieved this ? Should I download Avisynth ? I am a complete novice on this :smack: Also can I ask what is permanently saved when choosing filters during capture ? For example, are the settings in the Video Proc Amp permanently saved with the capture or can they be changed post capture ? Are there any other settings permanently saved during capture ? On LS's question, the sample was the entire capture I simply hit capture then quickly hit stop to ensure the size was under 99Mb :) On the duplicate frames, yes I can see that now - I am getting approx 10% dropped frames, is this too many ? Based on that 16 minute file last night, I had approx 2000 dropped frames. When you are watching the file back though it is not noticeable - why do they need to be present if they are not noticable when watching the file back ? |
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