Making a Mini-kdvd!
 

hy boys!
:)
a long time i don't do it and i have little cartoons with ~35/45 minutes, want to do little mini-kdvds(cdr) for my kid with kvcd notch...you know, i can put lots of that in dvd-r but i have more than 50 cdrs and can't find better use for that medias.
:oops: i forgot one detail: what's the size to do that? 700mb or 800 mb to burn as mini-dvd in nero? :?
thank you all!

Re: mini-kdvd
 

Good question Jorel :-) Unfortunally the answer is ... 700 MB.

I do this a lot, especially when I don't want the commercials and logos with Stargate. I trim the bottom of the screen (believe me it still looks fine with bottom off!) and process with KWAG's DVD template centered and CQMATIC at 192 audio. Use TMPGEnc Author to mux. If the size comes out a little too large, I process with DVDShrink to get final files for image burn. I use 650 instead of 700, as I reuse R/W cds for this.

I use 700 for 80 min cds, 650 for 74 min cds.

thank you Phil!
:wink:
nicksteel, you are reading my mind! :lol:

Hello all,
All my KVCD are in reality minidvd's because i prefer ac3 than mp2 (kvcd / vcd are only mp2 compatible), and i find menus and chapters more flexible than in vcd structure. So i encode my movie with KVCDx3 (480, 528 or 544x576) template, audio in ac3 at 112 or 128 Kbps.
On a 700 MB Cdr, you could normaly put ... 700MB because dvd is mode 1. But with ImgTool Burn, you can create cDVD (DVD in mode 2) image !!
DVD menus and extras take about 50MB with dvdlab wich accepts non standard résolutions 480, 544, 528 x 576(480) ..., so in CalcuMatic, choose a custom target and put 750MB.
Don't forget to test if your standalone accept miniDVD in mode 2 with non standard résolutions ...
aller, au revoir !

:?: Exactly how do you use ImgTool Burn to do 750 MB?

Click on settings/file system flags, and "Check" the "Mode-2" option.

-kwag

Thanks, KWAGster and other guys.
 

Filesystem Flags has 4 "checks".

Enable UDF
Enable Joliet
Enable ISO 9660
Enable Mode 2

:?: Which other flags should be checked?


I assume these are cDVD Defaults and I burn as cDVD.

:?: Will the output size show 700MB max or 750MB max?

:D A lot of questions, but I prefer cDVD and would really like to stretch the size from 700MB to 750MB. (My Cyberhome 500 plays back many templates a bit "jumpy", but is smooth with cDVD or KDVD.)

YOu missed something : the size of the cDVD is 800 Mb, not 750 !

750 is the size availaible for the video file, as the authoring and menu will take near 50 MB !

Thanks Phil, as always.
 

Filesystem Flags has 4 "checks".

Enable UDF
Enable Joliet
Enable ISO 9660
Enable Mode 2

Which flags should be checked?

:D It will probably take me a few trys to use DVDLab and ImgTool Burn effectively and I appreciate the help/advice.

Just another thing, don't set "Enable Joliet", you will have more chance to generate a compatible miniKDVD without it ...

SDC.

Still trying to work through my ignorance................
 

Used DVD with KDVD-720x480-Full-D1-_NTSC_.mcf to create 704x480 Film M2V with KWAG DVD avs and CQMatic.

CalcuMatic set to 82 min, 192 Bitrate, Custom Target 750 MB

M2V size 664369KB (Directory list in Windows)
MP2 size 115090KB (Directory list in Windows) Headac3he 192/48

Processed with DVDLab (Estimated DVD Size 782.98MB)
Entire created DVD folder size is 800MB (Directory list in Windows)

Processed with ImgTool Burn CD (Settings Enable UDF, Enabel ISO 9660, Enable Mode 2)

:cry: Error: Will not fit on 80MIN CD

DVDShrink shows DVD size 800MB
When I process as Image file in DVDLab, size of NRG file is 820653 (Directory list in Windows)

:?: What is maximum size allowed for 80MIN CD and where am I screwing up?

:?: As a "rule of thumb", what size in DVDLab "Estimated DVD Size" should be the maximum size allowed?

You could put about 805 MO mode 2 on 80min cdr with overburn.
In ImgTool, go into "settings", "other settings", in "limits", set "ignore source size" and in "CD", put 710MB.
If it don't run, in "Devices" don't choose your burner, choose "image recorder". It will create an file.img ; burn it in nero with overburn.
Chears.

Thanks, sdc77
 

:o This is probably where I was screwing up. Also, your PM advice to right click to build links in DVDLab :D worked fine. I don't know why I can't "drag and drop" for linkage, but it doesn't matter now!

:? Still trying.

ImgTool burn gave too large error with settings above.

Made nrg file size from ImgTool Image at 795,689.

Nero overburn failed with Write error.
CD Image 88:24.44
777 MB
CD-ROM Mode2/XA

All this with KDVD-720x480-Full-D1-_NTSC_.mcf
CalcuMatic set to Custom 750
Muxed with DVDLab
Attempted burn with ImgTool Burn

Oh Nero can report 88 minutes with a 777 MB file ? 777 is 77 minutes more or less :!: :-(

hum hum ! bizar bizar ! :?
Normaly 795 MO should fit on 80min mode 2 !!
i couldn't explain it ...
Try to burn it on a 90min CDr if you have one. I know it is not what we wanted first but i've no another way ! Sorry ... :oops:

The movie is 82 minutes long. I'm now trying another movie.

a big surprise (only informations for who is trying)

using as source cartoon 4:3 NTSC with 00h 48m 54s 15frames ,audio AC3-2Ch(no extras, only main movie):

MPEG2Source("D:\MKDVD\3 little pigs.D2V")
Undot()
Asharp(1,2)
BilinearResize(352,480)
Deen()

encoded in tmpgenc (MPEG-2 352*480 29,97fps with CQ90) KVCD notch matrix (of course) :arrow: min500, max 8000(yeah,too high) high quality (msp), GOP:1,15,2,1,15
give me 1,09GB (1.145.515Kb) .mpg (video only)

the audio AC3-2Ch have 67,1MB and encoded in HeadAC3he in 128 give me 44,7MB

:arrow: my choice was the AC3-2Ch from the source!
i take the .mpg and the AC3 to tmpgencdvdauthor to build menu and chapters.....done with 1,13Gb.

i take that authored cartoon from tmpgencdvdauthor to dvdshrink and adjusted the size to 700Mb(using "deep analysis")and encoded......done.

burned in nero as mini-dvd (full cd-rw 700mb).....nero show as 702Mb and with 79:47.59 time but the cartoon have 48:54.....(don't know where nero got that time!?!? )
was burned in cdr-w at 10X (only for test)

:arrow: is very cool, better than my old svcds(in 2 medias) 8)

Hi :P
Nice, Jorel, very nice :D
I might as well do the same with some cartoons of my own ;-)
I'll let you know if the outcome is as good as your's.
Cheers

That's just the way Nero works, it thinks that a 80min CD has 80mins of free space regardless of what you're putting on it (audio, data, VCD, SVCD..) . So that just means that the CD is almost full, it has nothing to do with the actual length of the video. If it showed 40 minutes, you'd have a half full CD.

If you do an audio CD, then the amount is correct, of course :wink:

right, nero seems ilogic.....you have logic! :)
hey,"nero"(emperor) was always "ilogic"! :lol:

Jorel Nero is not illogic, all burning tool does the same way !

Telling "a 80 min CD" is equivalent to tell "a 700 MB disc", you know that. And the opposite is also true : when you have a 700 MB file to burn, the burning tools reflect that has a "80 minute" file.

Whatever this file is (video, audio or just ISO images that don't have a real "length " in minute !)

VCDEasy for instance report you a length in minute just after having done the ISO image that is not the length of the mpeg file. Didn't you ever see this in the log window ? (perhaps you don't use VCDEasy, I don't remember).

was a joke my dear! :lol:
you, as a french "chief" cook, need to use more "spice" to read my "latin" posts! :rotf:

Oh... okay :wink:

hey boys.....more good news:
using the same source and script that i posted but now encoding with 2 CCE versions to get the same size like was got with tmpgenc. ( ~1,09GB video only)
with CCE250 in D2s-roba was found Q=21 to encode
with CCE266 :arrow: with kvcd notch matrix, D2s-roba found Q=12 to encode and get the same target size! 8)
kvcd notch matrix is champ again...or better..still champ!

Love those news jorel :)

-kwag

and the "prooving pictures" from "movie pictures"":

D2S-Roba found Q=12 to use in CCE266 with kvcd notch matrix:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/i.../2004/09/1.jpg

http://img89.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img89&image=proove2.jpg


CCE266 encoding with kvcd notch matrix:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/error.gif

http://img89.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img89&image=proove1.jpg

fragments from d2sroba log:
...
- D2S ver. 1.2.2.1, CCE ver. 2.66.1.7
- Setting low process priority
--------------------------------------------------------
- Movie length : 00:48:54 (87947 frames, 29.97 fps)
...
earch for Q:
- Sample encode : Q=14: 2906 kbps, err=-7.4%, size=1066061445, sample sz=10764012
- Sample encode : Q=12: 3124 kbps, err=-0.5%, size=1146116589, sample sz=11572328
- Determined Q : 12 = Round(12 + (-0.5 - 1.2)/3.5)
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-09-03 01:46:22
- Start movie OPV encoding (Q 12)
- OPV pass result: 0% on target (9 / 1151424895) Speed factor: 0.84
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-09-03 02:44:50
- Start VBR sizing pass (3139 kbps)
- Sizing pass result: 0% on target (9 / 1151424895) Speed factor: 0.83
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-09-03 03:43:34
- Recover DVD2SVCD
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2004-09-03 03:52:37
- D2SROBA successfully finished

fragments from dvd2svcd log:
Executing Cinema Craft Encoder.
...
Frames: 87947
CDSize: 1200.00
Number of CDs: 1
Cut point 1196.00
...
Min. bitrate: 700
Max. bitrate: 8000
Avg. Bitrate: 3139
Aspect Ratio: 4:3 (No borders, encoded as 4:3)

---AVS Begin---
LoadPlugin("C:\ARQUIV~1\DVD2SV~1\AVISYN~1.5PL\MPEG 2DEC\MPEG2D~1.DLL")
MPEG2Source("D:\D2S-D\DVD2AV~1.D2V")
Undot()
asharp(1,2)
BicubicResize(352,480,0.0,0.6)
deen()
Import("D:\D2S-D\ResampleAudio.avs")
ResampleAudio(44100)
ConvertToYUY2()
----AVS End----

final size ( .mpv video only) with kvcd notch matriz with Q=12 in CCE:
1,06Gb (1.120.544Kb) 8)
cool size and quality!

pictures...
important detail: this is relevant to compare the pictures,
they are honests to show his details!
the picture from the dvd source, was resized to small size and
when we resize one .bmp or .jpg to small size,
the sharpness encrease...then, that picture show more details...right ?

scene from dvd source width resized 49% (changed to 353x480):
http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/error.gif

same scene from mini-dvd from d2d with CCE (result 352x480):
http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/error.gif

no perfect but not too bad for 00:48:54 !

Hi jorel,

Was this with "Notch" :?:
Because I see all details there, and the encode is almost identical to the original.

-kwag

:arrow: yes :!: 8)

@ all:
see here too the comparisons using 3 scripts with kvcd notch matrix:
http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9219&start=48

Re: mini-kdvd
 

Sorry for delay, to read this post just right NOW... (10 years later) :P
but very interesting post...

exist this possibility?

a possibility 2 record DVD STRUTCTURE in CDR?
this is works?

like a AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS folders, and encoding in High CQ+Bitrate of ~35/45 minutes ???

Re: mini-kdvd
 

Yes it is ! This is called "mini-DVD" and that is all the purpose of this thread :-)

Curious, by burning 800MB mini-KDVDs on CD-Rs, what happens with the Error Correction level? Are those mini-KDVDs less secure now from scratch damages than SVCDs? SVCDs have a certain level of Error Correction in them, so that's why they can be burned in Mode2 and still have some sort of ability to recover from scratches. So, when you encode your MPEG-2 streams for mini-KDVDs, do you encode them as DVD-compliant streams or as SVCD-compliant streams, even though you author them later as DVDs? Would encoding mini-KDVD videos as SVCD (or KSVCD in this case) compliant streams provide an extra level of Error Correction when burning as 800MB in ImgTool? Or will that extra level of protection be ignored, since DVDs possibly rely on Mode1 ECC instead? Do DVD MPEG-2 streams have some sort of built-in ECC like SVCDs do?

I hope I didn't confuse anyone with this. Basically, I'm trying to find out if mini-KDVDs burned as 800MB on 80-min CD-Rs become less secure than 800MB KSVCDs when it comes to Error Correction level. And if so, is there anything that can be done to improve the situation?

Thanks.

No, they don't.

No, they can't. A scratch leads to a distorted picture on the screen. The bigger the scratche, the longer is the problem on the screen.

please, read my first post here:
http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic....r=asc&start=16
with all details showing how i author my mini-kdvds.

you can change in the script :
BilinearResize(352,480)
to
BilinearResize(720,480)
that is dvd standard too or don't use any resize (my taste) :



welcome in forum. :)

From Doom9's page:

"VCD and SVCD streams have some built-in protection so an additional protection on the data storage medium is no longer needed, which frees up space otherwise used for error correction."

That's what I meant. Plus from Doom9's XCD FAQ:

"1) What is XCD?

XCD means that you store normal data files in the same way as VCDs, meaning that one of the 3 layers of error correction of normal data CDs is removed and the free space is available for data. The correct name of the recording format is Mode 2 Form 2."

and...

"6) Is there any error correction available on XCDs?

XCDs have as much error correction as audio cds, meaning that scratches that do not destroy more than 2mm of consecutive data can be corrected. Note that this length is smaller if you use Gigarec."

So, according to that FAQ, data is burned similary on VCDs. I realize it's not the same level of Error Correction as in Mode1 but technically, it is still there. And certain things are recoverable/correctable. Besides, what is SVCD stream's built-in protection good for then? Even if "recovery" is witnessed in the form of your CD continuing to play (errors or not) instead of simply crashing and stopping. :-P

Why are they working on Error Resilience tools for MPEG4?

"the mpeg-4 standard (ie Simple- or Advanced-Simple-Profile) already supports tools which let you recover broken mpeg-4 bitstreams (audio and video) for example from scratched xcds"

So, while it's not and SVCD video, what is SVCD's built-in protection good for? Isn't it for a possible (even a small chance) recovery with special tools like in MPEG4's case? Why have it on SVCD?

Ok ok, I know, SVCD built-in protection is, obviously, not the same as a true Error Correction. I just wanted to say that technically I wasn't completely wrong. Tee hee! ;-)

Does continuing to play the disc rather than stopping and crashing count as a form of recovery? Does recovering a stream with various tools that take advantage of SVCD's built-in protection count as a possible recovery?

Seriously, what is SVCD's built-in protection good for then? Completely useless?

Alright alright, I hope you didn't take this too seriously. :-) I just felt like arguing a bit. So, in the end, do 800MB CD-R mini-KDVDs lack the same built-in protection that SVCDs have when burned in Mode2? Would it make any difference to encode the MPEG-2 stream for mini-KDVD as an SVCD-compliant stream (but not necessarily compliant resolution)?

jorel:

I did read that post before and it seems you end up with a DVD-compliant video stream rather than an SVCD stream (but not SVCD resolution) authored as DVD. But my question still stands regardless of what someone's current preference is... Hope you understand.

Thanks again! :-)

just kiddin:
oh my GOD seems that nobody in the whole forum can't read what i write:
:roll:
one more time,please, ...but read:
i wrote:
:arrow: min500, max 8000(yeah,too high) high quality (msp)
take the .mpg and the AC3 to tmpgencdvdauthor to build menu and chapters.....done with 1,13Gb.

...where did you read something outside dvd compliances :?:
...video stream rather than an SVCD stream ? where? :?

more:
D2S-Roba found Q=12 to use in CCE266 with kvcd notch matrix:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/i.../2004/09/1.jpg
click see inside the picture :arrow: max 8000 (posted in page 2)

solution:
:arrow: read the whole page 2 again and if you find some about svcd or
out of dvd compliance (that tmpgendvdauthor don't accept) please post a information:
http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic....r=asc&start=16
i posted scripts used,screenshots of the results,details using CCe and/or tmpgenc,pictures from CCE encoding,size and time of the source,size of the target,burned as mini-dvd in nero,matrix used in CCE and ALL DETAILS,i don't forgot anything.
and you wrote that: 8O
please tell me why "it seems" a DVD-compliant video stream rather than an SVCD stream ?
:?
thanks (read the whole page 2 again, please. nothing was edited or corrected to show you..is there posted without any edition)
:wink:

If you want. But this feature is due to internal electronic of the CD reader and has nothing to do with what is on the disc (audio, video, photo or raw data). If there was'nt any track recovery system, a single grain of dust will lead to a complete stop. That is why I said that SVCD disc don't have any recovery (specific) feature.
THERE IS NO recovery feature built in SVCD ! MPEG2 includes a basic recovery feature. But again this has nothing to do with the fact you burn your disc in SVCD or not.

NO